jackassjim Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Hi all, Is it usual policy for universities to prevent students for adding stipend and external funding. In other words, if I get funding from an external agency, my department plans to reduce the stipend they give me (teaching duties might be reduced, but that is not specified in the letter I got). Do you think that's fair? I was really counting on the possibility to cumulate this stipend with a large external award that I hope to win, and this is likely to be a huge impediment to my ability to feed my family during grad school. What are your thoughts on this? Given the economic context, I don't really want to ask for more money from them (even if I was offered more elsewhere), but do you think it would be reasonable to ask them to relax the cumulation ban? Thanks UPDATE: For future generations, here is the result: Negotiations were successful. All schools contacted offered to let me top-up the value of their stipend using my external funds. Offers ranged from 2K$ to Full amount. The trick was to present that as a costless way for them to compete (I was lucky enough to have other offers to use as leverage). johnjohnson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socialpsych Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Sounds like it varies by school. One of mine has the same policy. Unfortunately it doesn't sound like the kind of thing they are likely to just "relax"--it's a schoolwide policy. Either it is or it isn't. Your best bet might be asking current grad students in the program you're looking at, if you really need to make sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rising_star Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Honestly, it's common. Why? Because the school can use that funding to assist another promising candidate. Don't be selfish/greedy. johnjohnson and Quant_Liz_Lemon 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackassjim Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 Honestly, it's common. Why? Because the school can use that funding to assist another promising candidate. Don't be selfish/greedy. Don't assume that your circumstances are the same as everyone's. I have a baby and a wife. We'll need to pay 1100$ a month for daycare, and we are both going into fields where employment is more than uncertain, and salaries usually don't exceed 40-50000. We simply cannot afford to graduate with huge amounts of debt. We already have quite a bit going in... It's really not about being selfish. zep, Chronos and johnjohnson 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankdux Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Don't assume that your circumstances are the same as everyone's. I have a baby and a wife. We'll need to pay 1100$ a month for daycare, and we are both going into fields where employment is more than uncertain, and salaries usually don't exceed 40-50000. We simply cannot afford to graduate with huge amounts of debt. We already have quite a bit going in... It's really not about being selfish. don't assume your circumstances should demand special attention from the university. not to be an asshole here, but your stipend amount is really meant to cover the living expenses of one person. what you do with it is your own business, but i dont see how its fair to believe that the school should give you any more than anyone else based on the number of mouths you feel the stipend should allow you to feed. if winning a scholarship of some sort can allow the school to decrease your stipend and allow someone else in the program, then thats exactly what they should do. especially when you consider the fact the number of available spots will typically be lower this year anyways because of the financial crunch. perhaps you both should defer enrollment for a year and work for a year putting aside a nest egg for baby expenses during grad school. or at least look somewhere else for daycare. ($1100 a month?!) fumblewhat, j3doucet, Chronos and 2 others 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackassjim Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 don't assume your circumstances should demand special attention from the university. not to be an asshole here, but your stipend amount is really meant to cover the living expenses of one person. what you do with it is your own business, but i dont see how its fair to believe that the school should give you any more than anyone else based on the number of mouths you feel the stipend should allow you to feed. if winning a scholarship of some sort can allow the school to decrease your stipend and allow someone else in the program, then thats exactly what they should do. especially when you consider the fact the number of available spots will typically be lower this year anyways because of the financial crunch. perhaps you both should defer enrollment for a year and work for a year putting aside a nest egg for baby expenses during grad school. or at least look somewhere else for daycare. ($1100 a month?!) Point well taken. However, note that I am not asking the university to disburse any more money than they agreed to (actually much less, as I would be very happy with keeping only 3-4k from my external grant). The problem is that they are penalizing me for having access to a specific source of funds outside their endowment. I think you have offered a cogent defense of this point of view. But if you really want to follow that logic, universities should also do background checks on their students and adjust the value of the stipend according to needs, i.e. how much assets & savings they have, parents' income, etc. According to your logic, universities should save on the rich kid's stipend to be able to allow another one to come in. They don't do that. In essence, they discriminate by source of external funding, a policy which I think is hard to justify. johnjohnson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankdux Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 The problem is that they are penalizing me for having access to a specific source of funds outside their endowment. I think you have offered a cogent defense of this point of view. But if you really want to follow that logic, universities should also do background checks on their students and adjust the value of the stipend according to needs, i.e. how much assets & savings they have, parents' income, etc. According to your logic, universities should save on the rich kid's stipend to be able to allow another one to come in. They don't do that. thats exactly what the Department of Education does with your FAFSA. but i suppose you do make a valid point otherwise. Quant_Liz_Lemon and fumblewhat 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackassjim Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 thats exactly what the Department of Education does with your FAFSA. but i suppose you do make a valid point otherwise. At my department, everyone gets the exact same financial package, irrespective of financial needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rising_star Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 jackassjim, lots of grad students have children and work something out that doesn't involve paying $1100 in daycare. Start exploring your options. Quant_Liz_Lemon and johnjohnson 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackassjim Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 jackassjim, lots of grad students have children and work something out that doesn't involve paying $1100 in daycare. Start exploring your options. Thanks rising_star, this is encouraging. I am an international student and it is quite hard to determine, from the outside, how much all this is going to cost. I went back to check the website of the university daycare center, and the rate for infants is actually 1400. Part-week rate (3 days) is 975. We will definitely have to explore our options. It's just crazy how expensive this feels when you come from a country where daycare is almost free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miratrix Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Daycare can be pretty horribly expensive in this country. $1100 a month is high but not unbelievable, and when that's basically the monthly take-home pay for a full time job on minimum wage, that's messed up. I don't like how we think of it as just a problem for individual families to deal with and therefore not part of the larger social contract involving, you know, integrating women into the work force the way other western countries do. Good luck talking to the school about this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cogneuroforfun Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 At my undergrad, people bring their babies with them. A grad student I work with took 3 or 4 weeks off when she had her baby, then starting bringing her daughter to school with her and adjusting her schedule as she needed. This worked easier because she had completed all but two of her classes, but the professors of those courses were very accomodating. Keep in mind she was also TAing this whole time, while living on a sub-$15k stipend (in addition to her husband's income, though). Obviously I don't know your circumstances, and bringing in younger infants/toddlers is easier, but you should be able to work something out. I know a couple universities I'm looking at have daycare for their students, which I can't imagine costs anything near $1100 a month. But the best thing to do is email the director of graduate studies of your program, explain your situation, and I'm sure they'll help you. Good luck, and just know that plenty of people have kids in grad school and make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_ruth Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Bringing one young baby to work is one thing, but they all eventually become active toddlers, and I can't imagine getting much done with mine around all the time (I currently work from home with my two young children and it is difficult enough here with all their things and occasional help). Yes, it is tough to support a family on a grad student stipend, but you made a choice to pursue this particular career at this point in your life. I'm making a similar choice, and know that part of what will make my decision on where to attend is the size of my stipend relative to the cost of childcare. Moving to an unfamiliar place is particularly challenging because some of the lower-cost daycare options, like in-home daycares are too hit or miss to try without prior knowledge and/or a solid referral, so I'm going to have to go w/chain or institutional places where I feel more comfortable that there is sufficient oversight. Some schools do subsidize their daycare centers for students, and I'd suggest looking into that. I see your point about external sources of aid. Someone with wealthy parents is going to be getting extra money, and because it isn't another fellowship, they won't have their primary award reduced. However, I can see why it isn't practical to administer need-based aid for all graduated students (hard to prove who really gets money from their parents, etc. and moving across the country can certainly change a spouse's job situation). Limiting the funds from numerous official fellowships, scholarships and assistantships is an imperfect system, but may be the best thing there is now to ensure that the largest number of qualified students can attend. Sure if frustrates me that all my stipend money has to go to childcare, but that means I just have to work harder to ensure larger aid packages and be more creative with how to manage my children. One option I might try is instead of asking for more money, ask for cost reduction in University daycare tuition. Perhaps you can try that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinyboss Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 It's calculated to cause your wife to leave you during the second year and take the kid with her, freeing up your time for studying! Seriously though, I have a wife and 5-year-old, too, and I'm going into a PhD program this fall. It's intimidating. Thankfully he's school aged now, so daycare isn't an issue...yet. We plan to have another soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rising_star Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Honestly, you probably couldn't get into the university daycare even if you wanted to. At my last university, the waitlist was 3 years long. So, what you're really looking into is private daycares (talk to faculty and grad students with young children), in-home childcare, or maybe having your spouse only work part-time. All have been done by grad students I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plisar Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Honestly, you probably couldn't get into the university daycare even if you wanted to. At my last university, the waitlist was 3 years long. So, what you're really looking into is private daycares (talk to faculty and grad students with young children), in-home childcare, or maybe having your spouse only work part-time. All have been done by grad students I know. His spouse is a medical resident. I doubt she's working half time. Jim, let me see what I can scrounge up for you on child care at Michigan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackassjim Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 His spouse is a medical resident. I doubt she's working half time. Jim, let me see what I can scrounge up for you on child care at Michigan. Actually, she'll be a grad student living on a stipend very similar to what I got. But you got the idea right: no part-time Yeah, plisar, I would really appreciate any info you can get. Especially since you're already on the ground over there. It would sure be helpful. I am also in the process of contacting current grad students who live in the area to figure out how they are doing it. Rising_star: I figured as much about the university daycare. I just took that as a datapoint to get an idea of the market. Thanks a lot for the suggestions though. Those are options I will definitely investigate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liszt85 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I'll be taking along my wife, who will not be working. She will come on a dependent visa. I have to support both of us on my stipend, but I think I can make it work, even if it means living on about $700 a month in Chicago (after the rent and utilities). You are two people with two stipends.. I'm sure you will somehow make this work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepoorstockinger Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I am in Canada and choosing between MA programs so things are obviously different up here but I am in the process of trying to negotiate more money on top of an external award (SSHRC) which I anticipate receiving (no confirmation yet, but it looks like there's a pretty good chance it comes through). My experience thus far is that individual graduate directors will often be flexible - they probably can't ensure that you can keep the whole stipend but at least in Canada people seem to be willing negotiate some smaller pots of money to top up major external awards if you ask (and you can leverage someone else's offer for more money). It's worth asking politely and to hint that more money increases the chance of them getting you into their program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackassjim Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share Posted April 1, 2009 UPDATE: For future generations, here is the result: Negotiations were successful. All schools contacted offered to let me top-up the value of their stipend using my external funds. Offers ranged from 2K$ to Full amount. The trick was to present that as a costless way for them to compete (I was lucky enough to have other offers to use as leverage). In other words, thepoorstockinger was right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liszt85 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 One school told me that if I got an external grant, they'd adjust the university funding such that the total support remains the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackassjim Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share Posted April 1, 2009 One school told me that if I got an external grant, they'd adjust the university funding such that the total support remains the same. Yes, that is exactly what they told me initially. The whole point of the thread was to try to get more than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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