Damn you, ETS!

[bfat]

Today I shelled out another $100 bucks to get access to my Princeton Review online materials again because, for the life of me, I cannot figure out what ETS wants from me on the GRE. A shameful confession: I suck at GRE reading comprehension.

But the thing is all I do is read and comprehend. All day. Every day. I’m literally getting a master’s degree in reading and comprehending (and interpreting and writing).

I’ve bought the books, taken the classes, and studied my liquefied brains out, and my scores are still abominable (at least compared to where I want them to be). Do any of you other lit people have this problem? It seems insane to me that the reading comprehension should be so hard, but the way the questions and answer choices are written just don’t make sense to me. I want to find whoever writes these tests and punch them in the groin.

And don’t even get me started on the godawful triangles and hellacious algebra word problems that I was happy to leave behind in 10^th grade, thankyouverymuch.

I know that the GRE means next to nothing compared to the writing sample and SOP, but I have my heart set on some pretty tough schools, and I really don’t want to be weeded out because of this “meaningless” test. I’ve already shelled out so much time, effort, and money to this beast, and I just don’t feel like my results are improving.

I’ll end my rant here, but I hereby declare this thread the “Fall 2013 Applicants’ GRE Bitch Thread.”

Edited June 7, 2012 by bfat

[Imogene]

I hear ya. Can we ask what your score is? Or, percentile range? I mean, you've probably already heard (and read here) about REALLY not putting too much energy into these, especially when you could put that energy into updating a writing sample and working on your SOP. There are plenty of stories already shared here about folks with low (relatively) GRE scores being accepted to top schools.

Are you worried that your score would technically make you, in some cases, inelligible (like for funding?), or are you just trying to get your scores up into a really high percentile so that they look good?

If it's the latter, I'd say don't waste any more time or money; but if it's the former, then maybe, if you're game, you could be more specific about where you are now and get some feedback from others about whether it's a real cut-off concern?

On another note, I'd like to also partake in a general anti-GRE rant, and raise you one more: departments who continue to recite the importance of GRE scores without giving actual reference about cut-offs or how they're weighted in their assessment. I know some schools don't even freaking look at them except in cases of needing to meet some baseline requirements for funding or TAs.

I applied this season and got waitlisted by two schools (it didn't turn out in my favor), and when I followed up with the DGS at one of these after they told me that they weren't going to have a funded spot for me to ask for any feedback for applying next year, I got a boilerplate response that STARTED with a reference to "make sure GRE scores are strong" --- really? You had me on your waitlist for acceptance (meaning, if a spot had opened up i would be joining their program in the fall), and you're going to mention GRE scores?

Am I supposed to take this to mean that if my GRE scores had been higher I would have been on the short-short list, instead of just the short list? If that *is* the case, then TELL me that, otherwise, what am I supposed to do with that info?

Ugh. Ok, that kinda felt good to rant about.

[rems]

I completely agree with this entire thread. For some reason, I'm also terrible at the "reading comprehension" that the GRE requires. I have a freakin' MA in English Literature, and yet I can't get anywhere where I need to be in Verbal. It's EXTREMELY frustrating. I don't understand why for English we would have to even take the Verbal section because, obviously, we know how to read. What they're asking for is a general reading comprehension that doesn't even apply to our major. If it did, we would be excellent at it. If I needed to think like that, then there wouldn't even be a contest on how good every English major would do in this section.

And I agree that it's extremely frustrating how adcoms weigh the GRE. Many sites say nothing besides take the test, and most say "We do not have a lowest score for the GRE" which means you better do pretty freakin' well or else your not even being considered. We want you to do so well, we're not even going to tell you about it. And then you hear stories of people who get into Harvard without breaking 1000 (on the old test -- I have yet to figure out what's a good score on the new test), and then hear about people who get rejected from safety schools because their scores weren't high enough. EK why are PhD apps the worst thing ever??

It does feel good to rant about this though! I'm also glad to hear that other people have the same frustrations with the test. It's just very disheartening to think that even though I may have a great app outside of the GRE there is a chance that I'll be cut because of a score that doesn't prove anything. Le sigh.

[bfat]

Many sites say nothing besides take the test, and most say "We do not have a lowest score for the GRE" which means you better do pretty freakin' well or else your not even being considered. We want you to do so well, we're not even going to tell you about it.

This is it exactly. PhDs.org publishes the "Average Verbal GRE" for many schools' English programs (though they are in the old format, and somewhat outdated), which makes me think, "Hey, I should at least shoot for average, right?" Well, none of the schools I'm looking at has an average score that is below the 90th percentile, and most are 96% and above. While my first score (159Q, 82%--whatevs, 161V, 89%--ouch) probably won't land me in the initial "cut" pile, it certainly might hurt me in the final rounds.

But my real frustration with the test is that my score doesn't seem to be going up with practice--my score on test day was pretty much identical to my diagnostic test (actually, the verbal was worse), despite months of studying in between. I just can't seem to figure out or get my brain into the right mode to spot ETS's "tricks." I had the same problem with the SATs in high school, but I eventually figured out the strategy and did really well. I just can't seem to do that with the GRE for whatever reason.

Are you worried that your score would technically make you, in some cases, inelligible (like for funding?), or are you just trying to get your scores up into a really high percentile so that they look good?

The problem here is, again, that the schools don't publish cutoffs, so I really wouldn't know if my score is too low for funding. If it's competetive and the "average" score is much higher than mine, I'm pretty sure that funding will go to someone else.

On another note, that is really crappy that they told you to "make sure your GRE scores are strong." How do you respond to that? "Oh, okay, I guess I just didn't try hard enough the first time, I'll go back and nab that perfect score for ya." Ugh.

[margarethale]

bfat -

I would seriously not worry about your scores if you're getting around the 89th percentile. I scored in the 90th percentile and I got a number of acceptances with full funding/stipends/TA positions.

Also, don't worry about the GRELit subject test. I definitely bombed that exam (bomb as in I scored closer to the 50th percentile) and no one cared. Most places that I applied don't even ask for it.

If you haven't done so already, maybe getting a GRE study book would help you out. Go for ETS's book over Kaplan (which sucks). If you're really concerned about getting your scores up, there are always avenues that you can explore from tutoring to online services, etc. Personally, I wouldn't worry about it. I didn't even have my MA degree (I only have my BA) and I got in with very similar scores.

Instead of putting energy into your GRE, focus more on your writing sample and SOP, both of which carry more weight for admissions committees than your GRE score.

I hope this helps to put your mind at ease a bit but regardless I'm sending positive vibes your way!

[BradS]

Bfat--

To beat a dead horse, I agree with everyone else here: I wouldn't give yourself an ulcer over the GRE. However, if you're bent on getting that top-notch score on the verbal, I would suggest purchasing Manhattan Prep's Reading Comprehension booklet (Naturally, buy from Amazon and not their website--cheaper). After taking practice tests in other prepatory guides, I noticed Manhattan Prep was far more challenging. Also, the book comes with six additional online reading comprehension practice tests that record your strengths, weaknesses, and track how long you spent on each question--for free. I would even state that it's geared more towards those perfectionist freaks (most of us, I assume) who expect near-flawless performances, hence why it attacks the trickier questions which kill the test-takers who rush the sections with little discipline without relying on a patient, critical eye. They also provide a host of different strategies that may reconceptualize how you approach the exam overall. Hope this helps

[asleepawake]

Oh, gosh, you made it sound like you were scoring much lower than 161 in your first post. There's nothing wrong with 161, though of course if you're looking at top schools, it's a bit on the low side, but not disastrously so. Most schools that I have seen with cut-offs have been for the 85% percentile (600 on the old test, I think). At least one other school said 160.

I actually have the opposite problem. I love reading comprehension questions! I took the test Wednesday and scored about the same as you (162V unofficial score), but my problem was most certainly those awful fill-in-the-blanks. It seems like they are either very easy or completely impossible - there is no in-between. Buy my vocabulary... she is lacking. I guess I should have studied more flashcards. But, oh, if the entire test were reading comprehension... I would be ecstatic.

I wish that I could explain why they come so easily to me (in about 5-6 practice tests, I think I only missed 1 RC question total, and I felt good about all of the RC questions on the actual test). I didn't study anything in particular that made them easier. Some of the sciencey ones trip me up at first, but if I read them slowly enough, they usually become much easier. I usually read the question before I do the reading. I agree that the wording is strange in some of the answers. They are often not looking for your ability to understand the reading so much as your ability to infer authorial intent through context. They often try to trick you by putting in answers that sound right because they repeat buzz words from the reading, but it seems like correct answers have usually been reworded to obscure direct connections.

Anyway... I really don't think you need to stress that much over this test. I am certainly not retaking it. Remember that half or so of the admitted students that go into those averages scored lower than the average, and they did just fine getting into the school. I wish we could know the exact score ranges, though.

Edited June 9, 2012 by asleepawake

[Stately Plump]

I took the test twice. The first time, taking the old test, I scored in the 79% verbal (!). The second time I scored in the 90% percentile, which was obviously better, but I definitely didn't ace it. I was accepted to four programs, and two of them with full funding.

I scored in the 39% on the subject test.

Don't give the GRE--be it the general or the subject--too much power. If a school sees potential in your writing sample and personal statement, they won't care about your GREs.

[asleepawake]

I took the test twice. The first time, taking the old test, I scored in the 79% verbal (!). The second time I scored in the 90% percentile, which was obviously better, but I definitely didn't ace it. I was accepted to four programs, and two of them with full funding.

I scored in the 39% on the subject test.

Don't give the GRE--be it the general or the subject--too much power. If a school sees potential in your writing sample and personal statement, they won't care about your GREs.

We are GRE twinzzzz... I scored 570/79 on the old test (back in 2009), 162/90th on the new test... and 32nd percentile on the subject test (and this was better than I feared...) ... I take this as a sign that I will have a productive year of applications just like you did... As for the schools you got into, were they among the ones that asked for the subject test?

Anyway, I should mention that the 570/79th percentile on the verbal with a 5.0 AW was enough for me to get into a fully funded MA. This allows me to not worry too much about my scores for PhD apps, but I'm glad I at least did better this time around.

Edited June 10, 2012 by asleepawake

[Stately Plump]

As for the schools you got into, were they among the ones that asked for the subject test?

Three of the four programs to which I was accepted asked for my subject test scores.

Best of luck to you! And to everyone applying! Seriously, put more time into your writing sample. Good GRE scores and bad writing samples/personal statements is--literally--a definite rejection. I promise. Good writing samples/personal statements and bad GREs are, at least, a maybe. Exceptional writing samples negate GRE scores.

You have to remember that everyone applying, or 90% of people applying, have perfect GPAs (at least in the major), exceptional letters of recommendation, and top GREs. What makes you stand out is your writing ability. I can guarantee that every PhD program will have at least a dozen applicants who have 90-95% GRE, 4.0 GPA, etc. If your writing sample outweighs theirs, you WILL be selected over them.

Good luck to everyone!

Edited June 11, 2012 by Stately Plump

[lolopixie]

Sorry for putting this out there, but anyone who is crying about being in the 89th percentile verbal on the GRE should be shot. The end.

[bfat]

I really wasn't trying to offend anyone... Just wanted to open up a place for people to vent about how frustrating ETS and the GRE are. Standardized tests are bull-puckey and generally cause nothing but frustration. This is my first time through this hoop-jumping crap-shoot, and I'm sure it is for a lot of others too, so I thought it would be a relief to have a place to bitch about this particularly frustrating aspect of it.

That is all.

[lolopixie]

I get you want a place to vent, but complaining about a score that is top percentile is more of a cry for attention. *Applause* you got it.

[romeo jones]

My verbal score was fine, but I got a 3 on the analytic writing! That's 11th percentile. And I thought I aced it. Anyone else with an analytic writing disaster? Also, any thoughts on whether or not such a crap score will affect my chances? Thanks.

I am going to send in $55 to have my writing score reviewed, and that may result in a higher score. Fingers crossed.

I really don't want to take the test again just to get a better writing score. That would be the worst.

Edited July 11, 2012 by romeo jones

[Two Espressos]

I get you want a place to vent, but complaining about a score that is top percentile is more of a cry for attention. *Applause* you got it.

I didn't read bfat's posts as "cr[ies] for attention" at all, and I'm a little confused as to your acerbic remarks. Since when is 89% on the Verbal a top score? Sure, it's a good score for the general test taker, but for prospective Ph.D.'s in literature or philosophy (or any humanities field, I suppose), the absolute best score is to be desired: humanities kids have essentially received a degree in advanced reading and writing skills, so they should totally dominate the verbal and analytical writing sections. This is usually the case. From data collected from test takers a few years ago, philosophy students scored highest on the verbal and writing, with English literature students scoring second highest in both instances. With that taken into consideration, alongside the fact that the percentages include all test takers, it makes sense that bfat would respond to her/his score with "ouch."

Edited July 11, 2012 by Two Espressos

[lm0324]

on the reading comprehension: I had the same problem at first. The Princeton Review's "Verbal" book for the new GRE has an excellent section on how to crack the reading comp questions. It taught me how to think like the test writers wanted me to think and my score went way up after I worked through that. (It went from 160 to 169.)

on the analytical writing: length, length, length. I've taken the GRE a couple of times now and scored a 6 on the writing portion both times. It seems that the longer your response is, the better your score. It is ridiculous but it works. Good luck!

[Stately Plump]

The first time I took the test I got a 4 on the writing. I wrote like an English major; my words were chosen carefully, I used some "vocab" words, my arguments followed in a logical order, etc. The writing was what I considered to be at a high undergraduate level.

The second time I took the test I got a 5.5 on the writing. I wrote like a high school student; I wrote as much as I possibly could, had more paragraphs but less "vocab" words, and my argument had less order but covered more ground (compared to the first time, when I covered less ground more precisely). It was writing that my professors would have found unacceptable for a high-level undergraduate.

Just some food for thought; remember that the majority of test takers are not English majors, so the scorers aren't impressed with English-major-style writing. We all know that if the test was written by English folk, they would never have included a section where you are required to write an entire essay in 30 minutes and not complete even one draft.

<--- sunglasses for protection from non-English-major devised writing sections

[dazedandbemused]

My verbal score was fine, but I got a 3 on the analytic writing! That's 11th percentile. And I thought I aced it. Anyone else with an analytic writing disaster? Also, any thoughts on whether or not such a crap score will affect my chances? Thanks.

I am going to send in $55 to have my writing score reviewed, and that may result in a higher score. Fingers crossed.

I really don't want to take the test again just to get a better writing score. That would be the worst.

I got a four on the writing when I took the GRE as well and I couldn't believe it! I guess I hadn't spent nearly enough time reading sample essays because when I read through a few afterwards I realized that, just as Stately Plump says, the ones with great scores were totally high school. I still haven't decided if I want to take the test this year because I did it last application season and once felt like enough. Then again, I've never been able to get super excited about blowing standardized tests out of the water; I usually do it once and take what I get.

[romeo jones]

Just some food for thought; remember that the majority of test takers are not English majors, so the scorers aren't impressed with English-major-style writing. We all know that if the test was written by English folk, they would never have included a section where you are required to write an entire essay in 30 minutes and not complete even one draft.

Yeah, I'm wondering if adcoms realize how inapplicable the writing score is to judging a candidate. Ugh.

[bfat]

I don't think that adcoms care much about the AW score at all--I've never heard of anyone not getting funding or not getting in because of that score. That's what the writing sample is for. What Stately Plump said--yes. My first (practice) scored writing section that I submitted, I got a 3, and I was like, WTF? But this is one area where the review books were incredibly helpful in reminding me how to write a totally formulaic (but long) essay in 30 minutes. I ended up with a 5.5 on the actual test, and hopefully that didn't go down in the one I took this week...

[WhereWoolf]

Just my two cents worth: I am finishing up my "consolation" MA and going into my third application season to Ph.D. programs. I scored in the 99% on the old verbal (790) and 98% on the subject test, and I really don't think these figured much in any of my acceptances or rejections. I know my scores are much higher than many students accepted into the Ph.D. program at my current school, so clearly they are not a primary factor in admission.

(I also got a low [4] score on the writing, I think because I just couldn't bring myself to write a formulaic, five-paragraph essay. Silly me!).

I think schools want to see solid, but not necessarily astronomical, scores as confirmation that you didn't have your brother write your recommendations, but I think the importance of the GRE tends to be distorted by us nervous applicants wanting something tangible to cling to in the application process. Programs want flawless and compelling writing samples and SoPs, as well as excellent LoRs, so they can be confident that their chosen few will flourish in their program. Concentrate on your SoPs and your writing samples, they really are much more important.

I think that programs are reluctant to publish minimum scores simply because they do not base their decisions to any great degree on these scores. The scores serve as supplemental information used to round out the picture of the applicant. Otherwise, admissions would be very easy since schools would simply accept those with the highest scores, and no one with scores under, say, the 97th %ile would ever get in anywhere, which we know isn't the case.

[1Q84]

I get you want a place to vent, but complaining about a score that is top percentile is more of a cry for attention. *Applause* you got it.

Chip meet shoulder.

Today I shelled out another $100 bucks to get access to my Princeton Review online materials again because, for the life of me, I cannot figure out what ETS wants from me on the GRE. A shameful confession: I suck at GRE reading comprehension.

SAME. I cannot stand these reading comprehension questions! I love the fill in blanks and equivalence questions, though that may be a result of me being a vocabulary enthusiast.

Anyway, I should mention that the 570/79th percentile on the verbal with a 5.0 AW was enough for me to get into a fully funded MA. This allows me to not worry too much about my scores for PhD apps, but I'm glad I at least did better this time around.

That's pretty nice to hear! What schools did you get full funding for your MA for?

Just my two cents worth: I am finishing up my "consolation" MA and going into my third application season to Ph.D. programs. I scored in the 99% on the old verbal (790) and 98% on the subject test,

98% on the subject test? Wow. I would probably grovelling in your presence. And you got rejected three times?! I guess GREs really don't count for much at all.

Do you mind if I ask what it was that held you back so many times in the eyes of the adcomm?

[lolopixie]

Chip meet shoulder.

HA! Touche. This topic is a GIANT chip on my shoulder.

[ProfLorax]

I thought I'd resurrect the DAMN YOU ETS thread because I just got back my GRE scores... and they are bad. I studied, and on all the practice tests, I got above 160 on the Verbal. However, on the official test day, I got 157 on the Verbal (73%). However, I did okay on the AW portion with a 5.5 (96%), so that helps alleviate some of the pain.

Having read this forum and a ton of admissions websites, I know that the GRE isn't the most important part of the application. Still, I didn't want to have any weakness; I didn't want to give them any reason to say no, and now that I have "meh" scores, I'm feeling my insecurity creep back. I would retake the test, but all weekend slots are full until December. I signed up for the December 1 GRE, but then about two schools I'm applying to won't get the new scores in time. Part of me wants to retake it to prove to myself that I can do better, and the other part wants me to say DAMN YOU ETS and not give them another dime. At least I have some time to think about it.

Thank you, Grad Cafe, for giving us applicants a space for the occasional sad ramble! I needed it.

Edited September 25, 2012 by proflorax

[ProfLorax]

P.S. I followed my lit professor's advice and simply selected B on all math questions... That resulted in a resounding 2%. Ha!