leaving the phd?

[rubina]

I have always wanted to do a PhD. I got accepted into one last year, but it has not turned out to be the way i wanted it to. Among two unis which accepted me, i chose to go with the easiest one. -big mistake-. I have three supervisors. I only like one of them. My main supervisor never answers his phone or email. Last month he gave me a deadline. If i hadnt had the draft ready by the end of May I would be in trouble. But he has never answered any of my questions, or told me how to the research etc. (there are no seminars, etc here)

There are quite a few more people doing a phd with this guy. THEY always tell me where he is, if he is on vacations etc. He practically ignores me.

I am not sure if its worth it anymore. I dont wanna quit, mainly because i dont wanna hurt or embarrass him. I really do not know what to do. Obviously i have not written any draft yet because i do not know how to write it. Ive asked for bibliography, for help..but i never got any reply.

[Quantum Buckyball]

A draft of your dissertation or research proposal...? You can go to your departmental library and find some published dissertations from former students, and use them as guideline/template.

Edited June 8, 2012 by SPDFG13579

[Quantum Buckyball]

i have a very original project compared to what my department/uni offers. i have some templates, however, i am not sure if they are correct. and obviously my professors are too lazy to help me.

a draft of the first part of my thesis.

What did you mean if you're not sure if they're correct or not? Were you talking about the format of your thesis? layout..or the contents?

If I were you I would go ahead and start write something (even if they're wrong), and if the advisor doesn't like what I wrote I could always re-edit/re-arrange my chapters and sub-chapters. You need to show him/her that you've at least tried.

[Quantum Buckyball]

i mean everything, the layout, the contents, the research method. ive no clue how many pages a draft should be.2?20?50?and i have no bibliography.i just...chose some books by myself.

is it worth it though? i mean, i think he doesnt care about my project. this is why ive been turned off about this phd. he shows no interest. the rest of the candidates are on their 4th or 5th years and have written nothing. and he doesnt bash them, he bashes only me. i am meeting him on thursday, for the annual evaluation, and um...ive no idea if i will pass it.

Have you talked to any other current PhD students at your school?

For my master thesis proposal in chemistry, it was around 20 pages (single-spaced, 12 font, figures, tables, 10-20 references from journal articles or textbooks), however, I know couple of people only had around 5-10 pages for their proposal and they were able to get away with it.

a typical Master thesis consists of 3 chapters (minimum), 70-100 pages, double-spaced, 12 font, figures, tables, and w/ 30+ reference

a typical PhD dissertation consists of 5 chapters (minimum), 150+ pages, double-spaced, 12 font, figures, tables, and w/ 50+ reference

[Quantum Buckyball]

Have you talked to any other current PhD students at your school?

For my master thesis proposal in chemistry, it was around 20 pages (single-spaced, 12 font, figures, tables, 10-20 references from journal articles or textbooks), however, I know couple of people only had around 5-10 pages for their proposal and they were able to get away with it.

Make sure you include 1) previous work done by other authors, 2) why people should care about this, 3) how is your research plan different than other people's, 4) theory, experiment design, your hypothesis, 5) show preliminary results if you have any, 6) alternative method/backup plans, 7) discussion and future work.

a typical Master thesis consists of 3 chapters (minimum), 70-100 pages, double-spaced, 12 font, figures, tables, and w/ 30+ reference

a typical PhD dissertation consists of 5 chapters (minimum), 150+ pages, double-spaced, 12 font, figures, tables, and w/ 50+ reference

Edited June 8, 2012 by SPDFG13579

[go3187]

I dont wanna quit, mainly because i dont wanna hurt or embarrass him. I really do not know what to do. Obviously i have not written any draft yet because i do not know how to write it. Ive asked for bibliography, for help..but i never got any reply.

You don't like your main advisor, think he "bashes" only you, consider that he doesn't care about your project, call him "lazy", feel ignored... yet your main concern is that you quitting is going to "hurt or embarrass him"??

What are you studying? It's important as a PhD student to be able to take some initiative and work independently, and that includes compiling your own bibliography. Your advisor can add to it, but the fact that he didn't hand you a bibliography is not a good reason to write nothing. You say you don't have a bibliography, but what do you have after your first year of PhD? I personally find it strange that even though you have three advisors, and there are several more advanced grad students in your department, you still have no clue how to proceed with writing a draft of the first part of your thesis (the layout of the draft should be your least concern).

i mean, i think he doesnt care about my project. this is why ive been turned off about this phd. he shows no interest. the rest of the candidates are on their 4th or 5th years and have written nothing. and he doesnt bash them, he bashes only me.

I think he's quite demanding of you for someone who doesn't care about your PhD and your project. To avoid alienating the people in your department, and potentially turning some professors against you, my suggestion would to sweep the "poor me" attitude under the rug. Your concerns about your work and your needs from an advisor (not those of your peers), would be best discussed face-to-face, calmly and respectfully, either with your main advisor, with that one advisor that you do like, or with another professor in the department with whom you feel more comfortable discussing your issues; I would avoid whining to the other PhD students if I were the only one having a strained relationship with my advisor.

Out of curiosity, among the two PhD programs that accepted you, is the one you're currently enrolled in the one that best matched your research interests?

[go3187]

There are no seminars, or tutorials, or obligatory classes. We are not obliged to be at the uni at all.

Isn't this the kind of "easy" you wanted?

For what it's worth, I'm not "obliged" to be at the university at all, but I still go there daily and work, and I give my advisor weekly (at least) updates on my work. There've been students working with the my advisor who "got away" with not showing up and doing essentially no PhD work for years, and they ended up quitting.

Unfortunately i have done nothing during my first year. I did not have the time and the main supervisor was ok about until last month.

So, what you really want is an advisor who is okay with you doing nothing?

If you do nothing for a whole year because you "do not have the time", then perhaps this is not the best time for you to do a PhD. Your advisor has to provide an annual evaluation for you, so what is he supposed to write in it if you "have done nothing"? Would you expect him to lie for you? Even if he didn't have to write an evaluation, you can't possibly expect him to be okay with you doing nothing for a whole year. You also can't expect to be one of his favorites if you do nothing.

[TheFez]

What? it's a 5 hour commute to school?! (I am guessing you mean round trip - since 5 hours from London would put you in another country.

How was that ever supposed to work? It doesn't.

What is your field of study? (You did not answer yet).

I am sorry you are sick - but it sounds like getting a PhD was "always something you wanted" but not something you were committed to, or prepared for.

[TMP]

It sounds like you don't have a clear idea of what you want to or get out of your phd. I think you need to sit down and think about why you want to do the phd and your end goals. From there I hope you can develop some kind of working plan.

Btw- people never share their bibliography. Why would they share something that they spent hours working on and give it to someone else who doesn't need to labor over it? It's defacto copyrighted.

[Dal PhDer]

Hi there,

I am sorry you are having a difficult time and have been ill this past year. Working through being diagnosed and treating an illness during school is hard, stressful, and tiring.

Outside your illness, there seems to be an apparent misunderstanding of your expectations and perceptions of a PhD. A PhD is never easy and is not suppose to be easy. It's a prestigious degree that takes years, many hours, tears/sweat/sanity...etc to finish. You should never regard it as being easy, nor should you think you should choose the "easy" route.

A PhD is also an independent and self-directed learning experience. This is a process where you begin to learn how to do research, formulate skills, and show to your advisors and committee that you are ready to begin a career. I know what it's like to be in a situation where you feel your supervisor isn't invested in your project- but in all reality, that's not their job. The true reality is that YOU have to be invested in that project, and YOU have to continually become the expert, advocate, and progressor with it. Your supervisor is not there to hold your hand, their job is to mentor you, make you think beyond your capacity, make you question your choices in design/methods/etc., and be your supporter. I would not expect my advisor to give me literature to read for my proposal - NEVER. They might recommend me a book or article if they come across something, or I might seek out their recommendation on a specific topic if I am finding it difficult to find information, but I would never expect them to hand me a list of readings to develop my thesis on- this is your job, and a critical skill you should learn.

It sounds like your first major hurtle is developing a literature search. If you are stuck on finding literature, head to your library and they can help you. You will find there are a lot of services at your institution that can help you with various steps of your degree...I have even met with additional professors to get their input and guidance on certain things or specific methodologies questions.

The biggest thing to remember is this is your degree, and you have to have the initiative and motivation to take the reins and drive it to success.

As ticklemepink has suggested, perhaps you should sit down and really think about what you want out of your PhD, you interest in your dissertation, and where you see this degree taking you.

Best of luck

[Dal PhDer]

and have you seen the rest of the phds in my school? they are in their 6th year and havent done nothing yet.

This is a huge red flag for me.

You are right, you will need help from your supervisor- they are there to help you learn, you can't be expected to do everything by yourself...but their role is significantly less than it was during a Masters.

If most students are in their 5th/6th year without much progress, I would be very worried. Firstly, I would inquire about how are funded! Self-funded for that long is very expensive.

It sounds like students who are successful in this program have to be very motivated and self-directed. If you do not feel you have the ability to do that, and some students don't (which isn't wrong!), you might want to consider if you can (1) change supervisors or (2) maybe change programs.

I think the thing is, we do want to help, but we want to make sure that your issues with the PhD program are not actually expectations that all students have to meet, and are actually specific issues with your supervisor/program.

It might be you want to be more specific about the situation and issues you are having!

good luck

[go3187]

i am afraid that my current supervisors will find out and i will be in trouble.

You might want to read these two blog articles:

http://science-professor.blogspot.de/2009/09/moving-grads.html

http://science-professor.blogspot.de/2010/03/drawing-line.html

funding is not a problem here. studies are free of charge.

Even if the tuition fees are waved for PhD students, who pays for housing, food, health insurance, etc.?

[jeffster]

The question that comes to my mind is, why do you get to expect something from your professors if you've done no work? It seems like this should have been a serious concern of yours in the first week, not in the first year.

I am very sorry to hear about your illness, I can't imagine how tough that would be, and the negative affects that would have on PhD studies. Maybe we need some more information. Did the illness keep you out of school work for the entire year? How come you couldn't seek a deferment? It seems like there's nothing we can really say to help you here, anyway. You need to have a frank discussion with your professor about the previous year, your expectations, and their level of help. I think approaching it as "you never offer any help" is ill-advised. Instead approach it that you're having problems and hope they can help you figure out what can be done better. Maybe one of those things is closer contact with them, or maybe they just need to be clear about how self-driven they expect your work to be. Either way, you need to have that talk as soon as possible, since there's no going back on this first year whatever the cause may have been.

Good luck.

[go3187]

well we live with our parents in cyprus

I thought you were in London...

[rubina]

no i am not in london anymore. i was there for personal reasons. and i dont see why i need to explain myself in details why i was there or where i am at.

jeffster: yes the illness has kept me away from school for nearly the whole year. i could not defer it because you re not allowed to do so here.

also, i did nothing cos of that and cos i never heard back from them. never replied a phone call, an email, a question of mine.

anyway, theres no point in continuing this discussion. thank you all for your wonderful replies, but i think the phd system in my country is way different to yours, so we can not really compare the situations.

[yoshiko]

you are right about PhDs in the UK being vastly different than ones in the US. You cannot compare them.

I understand you might not read this but maybe people that are interested in a UK PhD can benefit.

UK PhD programs expect that you know how to be an independent researcher, thus guidance from a supervisor is very minimal. Of course, each advisor/supervisor will communicate differently but the consensus is that UK PhD programs focus solely on research. Students need to work on their own, develop something, and then go to their advisor AFTER they have already produced something.

Funding is not a problem for UK residents or EU citizens. They barely pay anything at all (depends on the department). This impacts how the research is done and when it is done. Students create their own timeline for their program of study.

But again, if we compare UK PhDs to US PhDs, there will be bitchfest because the programs are laid out so differently. Ultimately, both programs will do a dissertation but the journey in completing it, is very very different. Also, the prestige of the PhD in the UK is different than that in the US.

I'll stop here.

[Dal PhDer]

UK PhD programs expect that you know how to be an independent researcher, thus guidance from a supervisor is very minimal.

I would say this is fundamental to any PhD program, regardless of location.

[go3187]

no i am not in london anymore. i was there for personal reasons. and i dont see why i need to explain myself in details why i was there or where i am at.

I don't see either. I was confused since you wrote in your profile that you are in London. I wrote my replies assuming that you're doing a PhD in London (others thought the same, as you can see on the previous page of this thread). Had I known that you're doing your PhD in Cyprus, I probably would not have replied at all, since I don't know how PhD programs work in Cyprus, or what's expected of the students.