Inexperienced PI and Research Topic Doubts

[KayakBama]

My PI is young and new to the university. She has been here three years without any publications. I did lab rotations and chose this lab because I enjoy working with my peers and my PI. However, I'm starting to have doubts about some of the choices made in designing my research topic that were made before I joined the lab as I've delved into the literature more. I've brought them up to my PI and she has dismissed them. The problem is my project is multi-disciplinary and part of the project is outside my mentors area of expertise. My project involves validating a novel model for a symptom of a disease that is supported by clinical research. However, my model is not actually representative of the chronic condition of the disease, and is just an acute insult that can lead to development of the disease in humans (likely with contribution from the many comorbidities). I'm not dismissing the possibility that it can still generate the symptoms we anticipate seeing, but my mentor refuses to acknowledge that this model is not actually a model for the disease. I'm worried that because of her inexperience, review committees will dismiss her grant proposals because she doesn't actually have a firm grasp of what she is talking about. She talks a good game, but I'm the one consuming all the literature on this topic and instead of trying to understand my concern she just states that it is the best representative model in a matter of fact tone. Also, I am not convinced that the preliminary data we've generated is showing some of the markers for the symptoms we are looking for, while my PI is absolutely convinced based on cherry picked representative images we've used for some internal poster presentations. She also has no idea what the best method for quantifying these symptoms is, and she is resistant to me suggesting changes to procedures. She also makes incorrect conclusions about what certain assays will actually tell us about the model, and, after the resistance I've encountered with bringing up concerns about the model initially, I'm hesitant to try and argue any further. Is this typical for a student mentor relationship with a young PI? Am I being overly worried? I don't know if muscling through the work will be a worthwhile investment of my time or beneficial for my career, and I'm starting to consider trying to find a new lab. Advice would be very much appreciated.

[Sigaba]

You have two issues. The first is the differing views between you and your PI on your project. The second is your relationship with your PI. Before pulling the plug, I would take a long hard look at the second issue. That is, are there things you can do to make the conversations you have with the PI more collegial and respectful? Or have things gotten to the point where you cannot mend that fence?

[KayakBama]

I don't think things have gone to the point of no return. I really like my PI, and she has a very positive attitude towards life science research that in turn energizes me. My biggest frustration is just that she is so defensive towards my criticisms at points, and our relationship would be greatly benefited if she took the time to flesh out some of our disagreements (i.e. review the data with me in a comprehensive fashion if we don't agree) instead of wholesale dismissal. I'm trying to learn how to adopt strategies for effective communication, but I just have not found a successful approach to date. That in turn is making me question if staying would be out of devotion to maintaining a good relationship with my PI, and not because I would benefit in my career. Admittedly I'm new and lack an amount of experience myself, but I'm also deeply dedicated to the project and feel that I have valid criticisms that stem from my invested efforts. I need a way to convince her to entertain my line of thinking without her immediately throwing up a barrier, and any strategies you can suggest would be greatly appreciated.

[lewin]

1. Three years and no pubs is not a good sign. You need an active advisor who knows how to get published.

2. I'm going to head out on a limb here and suggest you're attitude comes off as a little know-it-all (e.g., "cherry picked images" "review the data with me in a comprehensive fashion" "she is so defensive"). It's possible that you know much better than your advisor does, but it's also possible that she's the expert and you, being in training, can't recognize your ignorance in some area.

Point #1 suggests that maybe you're right and should get out of her lab. But I just want to throw out #2 as a possibility too in case you feel the need to do some soul searching.

[Sigaba]

2. I'm going to head out on a limb here and suggest you're attitude comes off as a little know-it-all (e.g., "cherry picked images" "review the data with me in a comprehensive fashion" "she is so defensive"). It's possible that you know much better than your advisor does, but it's also possible that she's the expert and you, being in training, can't recognize your ignorance in some area.

[....] But I just want to throw out #2 as a possibility too in case you feel the need to do some soul searching.

Agreed. From what you've written, you seem to be getting into a dynamic where the different visions of the project are serving as a springboard for your disrespectful thoughts about your PI. It may well be that these thoughts are shaping the way you act and your PI is reacting to your behavior rather than to you ideas. I recommend that you keep in mind that it isn't just what you say, but how you say it that can make the difference.

HTH.

[KayakBama]

UPDATE

Things have just become progressively worse. I fantasize about leaving graduate school everyday, and loathe speaking to her. I never have time to analyze the data. She directs me to invest my time in new studies to complete our proposed outline of figures for the manuscript, but I haven't had the time to determine if anything is significant! I fear that it will be a giant waste of time with nothing to publish. We've gone to many seminars where people have blatantly stated our model is not the model she thinks it is (not her discipline), and she refuses to acknowledge it despite my mentioning it months before. I've also discovered that at least 3 people have left her lab in the past because they cannot work with her. Everyone in my lab is afraid she will derail our projects, and most of us are afraid to let her collect data for our project because we fear she may manipulate it. When we make a plan of action she often fails to follow up on her end, and her hypotheses supersede facts. I no longer get the spark of excitement when I critically think about my project. I walk in late many days, do not sleep, and slack off most of the time I'm there. If I didn't have financial commitments I would just walk out. I thought I loved science, but apparently not enough to tolerate this PI.

Edited November 28, 2012 by KayakBama

[bamafan]

UPDATE

Things have just become progressively worse. I fantasize about leaving graduate school everyday, and loathe speaking to her. I never have time to analyze the data. She directs me to invest my time in new studies to complete our proposed outline of figures for the manuscript, but I haven't had the time to determine if anything is significant! I fear that it will be a giant waste of time with nothing to publish. We've gone to many seminars where people have blatantly stated our model is not the model she thinks it is (not her discipline), and she refuses to acknowledge it despite my mentioning it months before. I've also discovered that at least 3 people have left her lab in the past because they cannot work with her. Everyone in my lab is afraid she will derail our projects, and most of us are afraid to let her collect data for our project because we fear she may manipulate it. When we make a plan of action she often fails to follow up on her end, and her hypotheses supersede facts. I no longer get the spark of excitement when I critically think about my project. I walk in late many days, do not sleep, and slack off most of the time I'm there. If I didn't have financial commitments I would just walk out. I thought I loved science, but apparently not enough to tolerate this PI.

IF everything you say is true, find a new lab and a new PI. It's as simple as that. Based on what you've described, she seems to not be very competent as a scientist. You also question her ethics; if that's also true, immediately leave. You don't want to be associated with her academically.

The biggest red flag was in your first post -- 3 years (3 and a half now?) and no publications.

Also, consider this. If she isn't producing / able to get more grants, she's not going to be around much longer. She's new, so not tenured, and she might get fired after her appointment basically. You definitely don't want to be stuck without a PI if she leaves.

On that note, consider it from her point of view. Maybe a lot of her own behavior stems from insecurities or frustrations with her own failure to produce.

[fuzzylogician]

I've also discovered that at least 3 people have left her lab in the past because they cannot work with her. Everyone in my lab is afraid she will derail our projects, and most of us are afraid to let her collect data for our project because we fear she may manipulate it. When we make a plan of action she often fails to follow up on her end, and her hypotheses supersede facts.

Get out now. Find out how the others did it, and follow in their footsteps. If you are afraid that she is manipulating data, there must be others outside of your lab who worry, too. This is not the kind of thing you can hide for ever; people talk, if only in hushed voices behind a person's back. You don't want your name or your work associated with that kind of reputation. It could sink your career before it even starts.