Got a little more depressed today - profile review (please) for Stats/Math/Finance programs

[xitsmike]

Hi all,

So I am a returned 2nd bachelors and have been taking courses for the past year with a goal of grad school in a program yet to be determined. At 26 I am trying to move as fast as possible but limited course offerings at my public university and long pre-req chains are conspiring against me. I spoke to a stats professor today about getting into a good MS stats program. Basically he said I needed to stay not 1 but 2 more years in order to do the stats coursework to be competitive. I was hoping to apply to things this year. At this point I really am caring less about what the career will be in the end and more about where I can get to faster (money problems, relationship, etc). Please take a look at my profile and tell me what YOU would do with it.

Calc 1 (A), 2 (A-), 3 (A-)

Linear Algebra (A)

Introductory Abstract Algebra (A)

Bunch of Economics courses (A's) and Financial Accounting (A)

Next Semester:

Probability for Stats

Differential Equations (the only other thing I can fit into my schedule)

Spring Semester:

Statistics (2nd course after Probability)

Maybe Applied Stochastic Processes

The professor says I then have to stay for Applied Statistics (only offered in the Fall but I need to take the 2nd stats course first).

What would you do if you were me and still split between MBA in Finance and MS in Stats, or other if it can land me a quantitative job..

[emmm]

Have you looked at what admissions requirements are for programs you're interested in? You could also call grad offices and ask. I did this in my area, and everyone I spoke to was helpful. What you could potentially learn from calling is whether the minimal requirements listed on a website are, in fact, sufficient, or if all applicants already have x, y, and z, and if you don't have them also, you won't be competitive in spite of having the stated requirements.

[MoJingly]

I totally agree with emmm. You can do a lot of hand waving in grad school applications. Looking at websites and reading grad school forums can just make the decision more confusing. Call up your prospective schools and TALK to them. That's what those admissions counselors are there for.

If you are deciding which path to take to be most job-worthy, that's definitely a question you can direct toward your prospective school. Ask about job placements from their different programs.

[xitsmike]

Let me rephrase my question. Given my profile, what programs am I QUALIFIED to enter next year or summer? I feel lately like every door is shut. A lot of the programs I would be interested in have either academic requirements far over what I will have completed after this year (ie an MFE) or work experience requirements which I do not have (i.e. Baruch MBA: at least 3 years experience it seems, average being higher, and it has to be in a related field at a well known company). I am looking for any programs where I am eligible based on my profile and can build on my mathematics coursework, and then I will decide what is the best fit for me from there. But I am not willing to put another 3 years into undergraduate coursework to get into an MS program. I am now looking at Biostats MS/APT (Accelerated Predoctoral Training) as a possible option - no work experience/research experience necessary, coursework required is 2 years of calc, linear algebra, some analysis recommended, and a programming language C/C++. I can have all that this year - hence I am interested in it. I know this is probably not the typical way to decide what to do with your life - but at 26 and with my age cohort leaving me in the dust career-wise, the time consideration is what holds primacy.

Basically I have/will have very respectable grades and substantial coursework in Math/Stats (3-4 stats courses by end), but not great work experience and no relevant research (I did my honors thesis in 2009 on a Political Theory topic for my Polisci BA); also I am assuming I will have very high general GRE scores in math/verbal.

So frankly, I wish I knew what doors I had open to me. I know some people have been researching grad school programs since high school - I have not. Help me out please!!

Edited July 19, 2012 by xitsmike

[emmm]

I can't answer your questions, but don't feel that at age 26 you are too far behind. The average age of my cohort is higher than that (and the two youngest students are right in that ballpark). Not everyone in grad school is right out of college. Your plan to get pre-requisites this year sounds sensible -- good luck!

[wine in coffee cups]

What would you do if you were me and still split between MBA in Finance and MS in Stats, or other if it can land me a quantitative job..

I would go for the implied but maybe unrealized third option: apply directly for quantitative jobs near the end of this second bachelor's. What sort of "quantitative jobs" did you have in mind? I know the economy isn't great, but most people I know with the kind of interests and coursework you have are doing decently job-wise without additional schooling.

That would also get your started on the experience needed for a business-related program if you have that as a goal. Of course, maybe you'd turn out perfectly happy to "just" work in an interesting quantitative role and be right at your end goal.

I will say, it would be good for all of your potential paths if you got a programming class in there, maybe instead of differential equations.

[xitsmike]

I would go for the implied but maybe unrealized third option: apply directly for quantitative jobs near the end of this second bachelor's. What sort of "quantitative jobs" did you have in mind? I know the economy isn't great, but most people I know with the kind of interests and coursework you have are doing decently job-wise without additional schooling.

I guess I am having trouble finding such vacancies as well - more shut doors, or maybe it is just me. Maybe it is just to deter the torrents of unqualified applicants, but every job posting either lists qualifications I do not have (2-3 years exp, knowledge of [unknown proprietary software], degree in [not political science], etc). What do your friends do, if you don't mind me asking? When did they start in their positions - before or after mid 2008?

I am not picky, but I am trying to stay in the NYC metropolitan area. I've heard of positions in sales and market forecasting, one such job which a friend of a friend got with a large appliance manufacturer having taken only 1 higher stats course (his father is a well known mathematician I took), jobs working with and analyzing consumer spending data, business/financial/investment/workout analyst, market researcher - there are a lot of titles I don't know even exist I am sure but which I would enjoy working in, basically any title which allows me to use and build on my mathematics knowledge so it was not all for naught and which pays a salary w/ benefits.

On your advice and from what else I have read about it being valued by admission committees, I have since added 2 CSI courses for this coming semester(one is a pre-req for the second which teaches C++ but they gave me a waiver).

If I don't figure this out I'll probably keel over from my constant school/work pace and worrying.

[ANDS!]

An MS in statistics shouldn't be difficult to obtain. It seems the trouble you are having is from the Finance side. If you go for the MS you'd want to grab a RA if you can (not needed but shows a certain level of math maturity depending on where you apply). That Algebra course is pretty pointless (other than showing your maturity level) for what you want to do and should be considered a wash.

[wine in coffee cups]

I guess I am having trouble finding such vacancies as well - more shut doors, or maybe it is just me. Maybe it is just to deter the torrents of unqualified applicants, but every job posting either lists qualifications I do not have (2-3 years exp, knowledge of [unknown proprietary software], degree in [not political science], etc). What do your friends do, if you don't mind me asking? When did they start in their positions - before or after mid 2008?

I am not picky, but I am trying to stay in the NYC metropolitan area. I've heard of positions in sales and market forecasting, one such job which a friend of a friend got with a large appliance manufacturer having taken only 1 higher stats course (his father is a well known mathematician I took), jobs working with and analyzing consumer spending data, business/financial/investment/workout analyst, market researcher - there are a lot of titles I don't know even exist I am sure but which I would enjoy working in, basically any title which allows me to use and build on my mathematics knowledge so it was not all for naught and which pays a salary w/ benefits.

A lot of the entry-level positions I'm thinking of have "analyst" or "researcher" somewhere in the job title, much along the lines of the roles you describe. The people I'm thinking of have mostly been out of college for 3 or 4 years. Some before mid 2008, some after, but most people with some respectable level of quant skills (including some whose majored in polisci) still found something reasonably interesting and adequately compensated. Off the top of my head, strategy consulting, market research (both in-house and agency roles), finance, healthcare, economic/litigation consulting, political strategy, education or public policy consulting, roles at non-profits -- many places one can look even without a master's. These industries also happen to be concentrated in NYC/DC/Boston.

Generally having a statistics class or two and familiarity with a programming language (and comfort learning others) is about all the background these kind of quantitative analyst jobs actually need. Oh, I guess being good at Excel is more useful than programming for some of the less, er, methodology-oriented roles. I think a lot of places ask for 2-3 years experience but don't necessarily mean it -- honestly, I would apply anyway in many cases. Same goes with mentions of particular software/languages. Sometimes they mean it, but often they don't actually care and will hire someone who seems like a quick learner and can pick it up without sucking up too much training time.

On the employer side, one of the annoyances in hiring for entry-level analyst positions is that it turns out a lot of people with decent technical chops completely suck at managing details or sharing findings. Employers will be wary of hiring someone who hasn't actually proven that they can run an analysis correctly and present results clearly. Having a fairly significant data analysis project or two under your belt (maybe from an internship, being a research assistant to a professor, senior thesis, or even a class project if you're reaching) will alleviate that concern. The more responsibility you had and the higher the stakes if you messed up, the more convincing a substitute for actual work experience.