Some questions about PhD program in History.

[TMP]

Just have to say.... Ouch. OSU mostly certainly is not in the same ranks as Texas A&M. You really have not done your research to make that ignorant generalization.

Stipends generally range from $10k to $23k, depending on the school's resources and cost of living in the area. Thwre is mo correlation between the presitge of the program and level of stipend Students in high cost of living areas, even in very respectable programs, are actually struggling.

You'd need a second BA if you really want that PhD. At this point your time is better spent making moolah in the non-academic world. You can always read books in your spare time.

[pudewen]

Thwre is mo correlation between the presitge of the program and level of stipend Students in high cost of living areas, even in very respectable programs, are actually struggling.

Eh, that's not really true. I'm in a relatively high cost of living area (not Manhattan level, but a lot more than, say, Columbus, Ohio) and feel like I have plenty of money to live on. You're not going to get rich off a grad school stipend, but the top programs give you plenty.

[Simple Twist of Fate]

Just have to say.... Ouch. OSU mostly certainly is not in the same ranks as Texas A&M. You really have not done your research to make that ignorant generalization.

Just reading over this thread (because it's kind of fun) and have to say that I read SK's question as comparing costs-of-living, rather than prestige (but it's still a strange comparison, so I don't know).

SK, I would suggest that you speak to some of the professors at your undergrad institution and ask their opinion. It can be hard to take strangers' advice, especially when it is negative. Perhaps hearing from a few professors (especially younger ones or any of the profs who remain attuned to the current state of affairs in history graduate training) might serve you better.

My advice is the same as everyone else. I wouldn't even try to apply with your credentials (unless, possibly there were outside circumstances such as a personal crisis or a major switch from engineering or something like that). Graduate school is exponentially more challenging than undergrad, and includes far less room for error. To persevere and succeed in graduate school requires a different attitude than you're exhibiting in this thread. I don't mean to be rude, as I'm sure the other posters also do not, but it doesn't look good for you in this regard.

Good luck, though.

[pudewen]

@pudewen

1. ok. Thanks.

2. Actually I actually heard an actual case where a 2.8 or i'm not sure if it was 2.9 but he got in to some PhD program in some non-humanities field. Forgot what major he was. I thought if you have really good letters of recommendation and your essays are exceptional, it's possible. Also I read about someone getting into grad school with a low GPA (I'm pretty sure it was in the high 2.0s) and his essay was so good that he was on the waiting list or something and he eventually got accepted into another university but then decided it was not worth the time and went to Law School instead with his essay skills.

3. It's still nice to know how much they would pay. For example how much do humanities PhD get paid in somewhere like Berkeley and how much do they get paid in somewhere like OSU or Texas A&M.

4. Could go to the absolute cheapest Master I could find and still somehow make it to a good PhD program if I did a lot of good publishing? Is it possible for ground breaking theories to come out of podunk Masters? Has it happened before?

5. I see you go to Harvard. I read somewhere that since Harvard undergrad history majors can get into Wall Street, it is the same for PhDs as well. Is that true?

6. Somebody mentioned that many competitive undergrad applicants would already have articles published in journals when applying for PhD. Could you somehow publish articles in journals after graduation without attending a Masters and then with that experience somehow get accepted to a PhD program?

7. I heard that if you do something very exceptional like publishing a book related to your field, that can override your GPA?

2. Do you actually know this person? I'm not accusing you of making it up, but if this is just hearsay, things get distorted. I can't imagine anyone getting in to a PhD program that would give you any sort of academic job prospects with a below 3.0 gpa. Most schools will throw out an application at that level without looking at it. It's theoretically possible in the sciences, where admission and funding is frequently determined almost entirely by whether a given professor wants you in her/his lab or not, but to find a professor willing to do that is pretty unlikely. In the humanities, it's simply inconceivable. Your writing sample won't make up for it, because professors are unlikely to even read the writing sample of someone with a gpa below the minimum cut-off of even relatively weak Master's programs.

3. What tmp said is basically right in terms of amounts, though the top end actually goes somewhat higher than $23k; Harvard for instance gives $24.5k (plus guaranteed summer support in the first two years, which basically means an extra two months of stipend at the same rate). Remember, though, that at many programs, not all admitted students receive stipends; some even have to pay tuition. Also, the requirements for receiving the stipend vary wildly; some people don't have to teach at all, others have to teach every term, some are in between.

4. If you do extremely good research in a Master's program, you could be admitted to a good PhD program regardless of where you do the Master's.

5. If you want to work on Wall Street, find something else to do other than a PhD in history. History PhDs are sometimes hired by consulting firms and the like, but a history PhD is not really a sensible path for someone whose goal is to work in that industry.

6. With your gpa, it's unlikely that anything you do outside of a formal educational program will get you admitted. It's conceivable, I guess, but you'd have to be publishing in top journals, and I think you'll find it's actually kind of hard to do work of that quality (a lot harder than getting As in undergrad classes).

7. Sure. Publish a book with a major academic press: something that takes most people the better part of a decade, despite having much better access to libraries, archives, and support from academic mentors than you're likely to have, and then get back to us.

Edited September 8, 2012 by pudewen

[CageFree]

What if you come from a first tier university but have low GPA?

It doesn't matter.

You're not going to get the answer you want to hear no matter how many "what ifs" you throw into the equation.

You are not going to erase a bad GPA with "independent study," "publishing," "good writing samples," "blogs," etc.. Bottom line is, you have not shown yourself to be a good student. Therefore, your chances of making it into a top or even second-tier graduate program are virtually non-existent.

I suppose it's possible. It's also possible that tomorrow the sky will be red. But it's not likely.

Your best bet is to get a MA in History (PAYING for it, you won't get one with funding), work your behind off, get close to a perfect GPA, write one hell of a master's thesis, ace the GRE, and hope and pray you can get into a second or third tier Ph.D. program.

[TMP]

I should add that one of the toughest things about going to graduate school is.... learning to hear the word "no" AND accepting it. When your adviser tells you "no" it's often for a VERY good reason.

So if you can't accept our "no" and your professors' "no" then you haven't accepted the reality.

[CageFree]

It's just like those students I used to have when I was a teacher, who did nothing all semester, then at the end came up and asked for extra credit projects to get their grade back up so they could "pass."

[CrazyCatLady80]

If you are absolutely serious about getting a PhD, here is what I suggest - take a couple of years off. See the world. If you still want a PhD, go for another B.A. in history. Then apply for a MA and then try to get into a PhD program. Your undergrad grades are so low that you need another B.A. A friend of mine did this and he is now at UCSD. It was A LOT of work, but I know he feels it is worth it.

Also, so we are on the same page here, do you know exactly what getting a PhD means? If you are seriously considering a PhD, I recommend you read Graduate Study for the 21st Century by Gregory Colon Semenza. It pretty much lays it out for you. I am currently getting my M.A. I am treating it like I am in a PhD program. I stopped working full time and moved in with my parents who love to torture me about everything. I do school work for 12 hours a day. On weekends, I try to work around five hours a day. That is still not enough time for me to accomplish everything that I want to do. I spend my days writing, reading, and planning. When I am not doing that, I am usually working at some low life job. I also teach at my university, which takes up a huge amount of time. The students are far from perfect. Most would rather spend their time smoking weed, getting drunk, or having sex. Of course, we would all like to do that, but they fail to understand that you can't do only that for the rest of your life. When I graduate with my M.A., I hope to get into a PhD program where it is ten times more work, teaching, and stress. After that, I will TRY to get a tenured track position. Try is the key word since it is super competitive. Less than half of all PhD students get a tenured-track job. If I get that far, I have to work even harder than I worked in graduate school, because I need tenure. If I don't get tenure, I might as well jump off a bridge, because my career is over. All of this work for the awesome amount of 20,000 as a grad student. Salaries for professors range quite a bit. I know my current professors make around 75,000 per year. Now do you really want to do it? If the answer is yes, follow our advice. If not, look at something else.

[Professor Plum]

Like a lot of readers, I just assumed that this poster was trolling. The more intriguing question: Why? What is the possible payoff in getting a bunch of people on a grad student message board all wound up? That--and not the OP's totally nonexistent chances at being admitted to any kind of graduate program in the field--is what's keeping me coming back. It's fascinating.

[runaway]

Like a lot of readers, I just assumed that this poster was trolling. The more intriguing question: Why? What is the possible payoff in getting a bunch of people on a grad student message board all wound up? That--and not the OP's totally nonexistent chances at being admitted to any kind of graduate program in the field--is what's keeping me coming back. It's fascinating.

+1

But also, OP being a troll aside, this thread is full of some great advice.

[Professor Plum]

I agree--this thread is full of good advice. But I'm more curious to understand the motivations of someone trolling GradCafe. Really--it's a pretty modest stage. Why not National Review Online, or Mother Jones? This is such a tiny niche. What does a troll hope to accomplish?

The human condition is endlessly fascinating.

[New England Nat]

What does a troll hope to accomplish?

I had assumed it was that in those larger online settings people are much more likely to call troll faster. Whereas grad cafe is full of earnest people trying to give and get earnest advise.

[SK904]

@pudewen:

2. No I don't, but one of my family members told me about this after hearing it from the person first hand.

3. Ok thanks. What determines whether someone doesn't have to teach at all, every term, or in between? Teaching is something that I would rather not do. I also heard that PhD have to go to classes too? How much time does that take? I would really want an environment where i can just read and write all day, and would rather have nothing to do with classes.

3.1 Another thing is I read somewhere that in PhD you don't really have freedom to study whatever you want because if what you want to study is too much of a niche field and is something that not a lot of people take interest in, you would have hard time getting a job as a professor or getting a tenure and that you have to go with the flow of the field and so you have to write about the hot topics in your field?

4. So for PhD they don't look at the prestige of your school?

5. How much do consulting firms pay to recruit history PhDs? Do they also recruit other humanities PhDs?

6. What would it take to publish in top journals? Do you need to be already an excellent student? Or do they just see the quality of your writing itself and if it's good enough they might let you publish in their journals?

7. How could I get better access to archives and libraries while being a non-student?

Edited September 9, 2012 by SK904

[crazedandinfused]

I can't take this. Doesn't this person have anything better to do? This country desperately needs something like a new Civilian Conservation Corps.

Edited September 9, 2012 by crazedandinfused

[TMP]

LOL I cannot take this one. This is totally a troll based on the OP's last point. i'm done here.

[SK902]

As a caveat, I'm not in your field. However, I think some of these questions are fairly broad.

1. I'd try to raise your GPA above a 3.0. A MA GPA doesn't erase your undergraduate record, and some schools have set-in-stone minimum GPA requirements, usually at a 3.0. And you can definitely find cases here of students who had departments fighting for them but could not get the school to grant an exception, even with a 4.0 from a MA.

(I created another account for my other computer because I can't remember the twitter username that I made for this site. )

Other people seems to say that as long as I do very good research in an MA (even if the MA is very low in terms of prestige) I could have chance at a good PhD program. But here you say that they still look at undergrad GPA? Could somebody clarify this?

Another person said I need to get into fine MA programs that can be used as launching pad to good PhD, in order to get into a good PhD.

[SK902]

3. For humanities, this is likely after they've completed their coursework, and are working on their dissertation. At that point, there is no need to be physically on campus, and no prohibition towards other work.

How long might completing the coursework take?

[New England Nat]

And now he's changed user names again. Anyone doubting we've got a troll now?

[CageFree]

NEN - Nope, I have agreed with you for quite a while.

Let's stop feeding the troll, guys.

Edited September 9, 2012 by CageFree

[SK902]

If I were to pursue a Masters would it be worth it to take an extra semester to raise the GPA from 2.65 to 2.8? Or would that not make much of a difference getting admitted to Masters.

Also some people were suggesting going for a second major, what would be the difference with that and going to Masters ?

[SK902]

If you are absolutely serious about getting a PhD, here is what I suggest - take a couple of years off. See the world. If you still want a PhD, go for another B.A. in history. Then apply for a MA and then try to get into a PhD program. Your undergrad grades are so low that you need another B.A. A friend of mine did this and he is now at UCSD. It was A LOT of work, but I know he feels it is worth it.

If this is true I think I should just drop out of this semester and then try to get some job (please suggest me some jobs that I can get with low GPA and barely any work experience) because if I should have 3.0 to even get into an MA or worthwhile MA, then it would be good to get another BA. But I only have one more year of good financial package and then after that it might be too expensive for me to come back to the school. At least the same school.

Would it be possible to return for a second BA in a cheapest university I can find anywhere in the US? Maybe Puerto Rico? But they probably teach in Spanish which I don't speak.

Btw today's the last day to drop out.

Edited September 24, 2012 by SK902

[TMP]

Get the degree. You'll have better job prospects than someone with a high school diploma. A BA with a 2.0 GPA is better than a high school diploma.

[SK902]

I have enough credits to graduate and am on fifth year. Long story, here's my problem: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1394851-question-about-dropping-out-5th-year-employment-gap-4.html#post14872678

[Andean Pat]

This has been hilarious!!!!