SAIS application for Fall 2013

[jm08]

I have mixed feelings on whether to be surprised or not. Besides, what highly intelligent person doesn't have some type or form of mental illness...but that's a discussion to hash out over drinks! Anywho, my "why-can't-we-all-get-along" comments are officially retracted. Commence the blood bath!

[riverguide]

 Besides, what highly intelligent person doesn't have some type or form of mental illness...

 

 

[jm08]

@riverguide -- I honestly have no idea what that picture means. Sarcasm, confusion, disagreement, gas?

Edited March 19, 2013 by jm08

[riverguide]

@riverguide -- I honestly have no idea what that picture means. Sarcasm, confusion, disagreement, gas?

 

"Besides, what highly intelligent person doesn't have some type or form of mental illness..."

 

 

Truer words were never spoken...lol. Revolution comes with the territory. I'm beginning to appreciate his humor...

[jm08]

Haha - oh, well, I don't know Revolution well enough to assess his intelligence level, but I meant more generally (and tongue-in-cheek). Hence, why it's a topic to talk over drinks.

 

Joking aside, I have personally seen people I would consider "brilliant" be consumed by depression, mania, narcissism, and the whole schizoid family. It's really sad and something that many people are afraid to talk about due to social stigma. On the other hand, you have clearly unstable people who should be avoided...

Edited March 19, 2013 by jm08

[biscuits]

I think I have him figured out pretty well. He's telling how he really feels when he's speaking about his feelings of inferiority and insecurities (all his MBA buddies partying and getting smart and hot ladies and having this transformative experience etc.) but then he plays it up because he knows he's getting some attention. So all in all it's pretty interesting/entertaining/sad.

 

 

But he brings us so much entertainment in these dark winter hours...

[soaps]

I had a friend in DC who was interning at the same think tank I was. He was in the MSFS program, and he would constantly talk about how "elite" he was in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way. He'd go on and on about MSFS parties and how we (the other interns) should go to them and not be intimidated by his elite crew. Even while he was half-joking, it was also tinged with genuine narcissism which isn't uncommon in DC. This guy basically had the same internship as me as an MSFS student--what on Earth was he bragging about? There's nothing intelligent or "genius" about it. He had no meaningful job experience and glided along on ego alone as many young men (and probably women) do. It's amusing but it's based on nothing--although usually bolstered by privilege--and it disappears in most guys by their 30s. I was the same way only a few years ago, but then my first job completely killed my self-esteem. 

 

Anyway, it's a common story. You'll have research assistants who think they're smarter than the fellows they work for but who spend most of their time on facebook. It's even worse--far worse--if you work on the Hill and encounter interns wearing their red badges of courage. Staff assistants are no better. I have no doubt that every program will have a large chunk of students who are this way. I can't imagine how MBA programs are...

 

I wouldn't encourage that level of arrogance and egotism. Guys like that need to be taken down a peg. 

Edited March 19, 2013 by soapwater

[Revolution]

I had a friend in DC who was interning at the same think tank I was. He was in the MSFS program, and he would constantly talk about how "elite" he was in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way. He'd go on and on about MSFS parties and how we (the other interns) should go to them and not be intimidated by his elite crew. Even while he was half-joking, it was also tinged with genuine narcissism which isn't uncommon in DC. This guy basically had the same internship as me as an MSFS student--what on Earth was he bragging about? There's nothing intelligent or "genius" about it. He had no meaningful job experience and glided along on ego alone as many young men (and probably women) do. It's amusing but it's based on nothing--although usually bolstered by privilege--and it disappears in most guys by their 30s. I was the same way only a few years ago, but then my first job completely killed my self-esteem. 

 

Anyway, it's a common story. You'll have research assistants who think they're smarter than the fellows they work for but who spend most of their time on facebook. It's even worse--far worse--if you work on the Hill and encounter interns wearing their red badges of courage. Staff assistants are no better. I have no doubt that every program will have a large chunk of students who are this way. I can't imagine how MBA programs are...

 

I wouldn't encourage that level of arrogance and egotism. Guys like that need to be taken down a peg. 

 

 

DC is especially atrocious in this regard. The city attracts people who couldn't get top private sector jobs in nyc/boston/sf, etc. and come to DC to work in government/politics as some congressional aide, hoping to become the next clinton or obama. It's pretty amusing.

 

MBA programs have a lot of arrogant people as well of course, but at the top schools most of the students are actually accomplished, with real work experience and leadership. Comparing them to Hill employees is not the right analogy.

[DevEcon]

Does anyone know what the cost of the pre-term session is (I dare not hope its free...)?

 

According to the admitted students website it is attended by "the majority" of the incoming class so it'd hate to miss out on it.

[jm08]

I don't believe it is free. I saw someone post the fees were  $1,200 for one class and $1,800 for two classes. I'm sure the exact amounts are buried somewhere on SAIS's website. What classes were you aiming to take; and, are you in the IDEV program?

[DevEcon]

Hi jm08,

 

yes, I'm in the IDEV program (if I end up going). Still trying to work out how to pay for it all though, so pre-term may or may not be an option for me.

Class-wise I'd consider taking the economics modules to prepare for the waiver exams, but more importantly, its probably a good opportunity to socialize before term starts properly and I would feel like I'm missing out if I didn't attend.

 

Im curious about your decision to accept your offer from SAIS over HKS, any particular reasoning?

[jm08]

@soapwater -- wow, you have totally captured the "dark side" of DC perfectly. I have had the exact same experience many years ago during my undergrad when I was interning in DC at a "well known" think tank. It was just unreal.

 

On the other hand, most of my work experience has 90% been with people who have MBAs, and the majority of them are some of the nicest and smartest people I have ever met. This is just my experience, of course, but it makes me wonder how geography, sector, and education background influence how much of an unbearable asshole a person turns out to be.

 

Strangely, the HBS people I have worked with are, hands-down, the nicest people. Maybe it's random...I don't know. Very strange. 

[flyingjellyfish]

Pre-term courses in Bologna are 840Euro for econ, 420Euro for survival Italian.  That equates to just over $1600.  The cost is a pain, but it's such a small piece of the overall SAIS education... seems worth it to get off on a good foot!

[flyingjellyfish]

To clarify, just over $1600 if you combine those two courses, which would be my plan.

[ridofme]

Y'all are just getting trolled IMHO - there was a trollish poster in the IP chat the other night who was a MS Finance at Princeton and he mentioned that one of his friends was "tearing up the board." I figure this is it. You guys should probably just ignore him at this point, albeit this is all hilarious to read and I've docked him a good -10 reputation points myself. You're all being rick rolled:

 

I have certainly had my suspicions that we are being trolled, but at this point I'm finding it more entertaining to take his comments at face value.

 

@Revolution: if you are a troll - then, bravo! While many of your posts are absurd, you inject them with layers of earnestness and naivete that make them quite compelling.

Edited March 19, 2013 by ridofme

[JFactor]

I have certainly had my suspicions that we are being trolled, but at this point I'm finding it more entertaing to take his comments at face value.

 

@Revolution: if you are a troll - then, bravo! While many of your posts are absurd, you inject them with layers of earnestness and naivete that make them quite compelling.

 

This is exactly how I feel. Of course some of it is intentional trolling/hyperbole, but if he is not at all who he says he is, then he's really committed to his "craft" and I must say that is very impressive although a little absurd/pathetic at the same time (who keeps wasting their time like that?). Nevertheless, it's been entertaining.

[jm08]

@DevEcon, glad to meet someone else who is considering SAIS IDEV!

 

My decision-making on (likely) choosing SAIS over HKS is based on the following factors:

• The SAIS curriculum is more aligned with my long-term goals. I did not apply to the HKS MPA/ID program because it's more geared toward people who want to pursue a PhD and/or those who want to spend the majority of their career in-country. MPA/ID students take PhD-level economics courses, and as much as I love math, it's overkill for what I want to do. HKS is a public policy school first and foremost with an "international concentration"; whereas SAIS could be considered the opposite. 
• I was fortunate to receive about $50,000 from SAIS in fellowship funds. We hear from HKS re: financial aid in early April. I highly doubt I'll receive the same level of funding, which is a major part of my decision-making.
• The DC location for obvious reasons. I'm actually moving to Cambridge in two weeks, so I'll be better able to compare the two locations. 
• SAIS is its own entity -- no undergrads or other graduate programs, which is nice to receive that level of attention and resources.
• HKS does "win" in terms of formal programs with top MBA programs. However, the Wharton/SAIS combination is very aligned with what I want to do. 
• The "Harvard" brand isn't really influencing my decision much. People in my field hold SAIS in high regard and it is those people whose opinions matter -- not my neighbors. And, if I'm lucky, any insecure / prestige-thing I might have deep inside can be met by whatever MBA program I attend. 
• All the SAIS students I have met and worked with really "click" with me as people. HKS has been a bit hit-or-miss. 
• Job-wise, I have a strong network, so I'm not really dependent on either school in terms of "access" to jobs; but, both networks are still awesome in their respective areas. 

I think that's about it.

 

What about you? What programs are you considering and what are you thinking about?

 

In terms of waiver exams, I'm studying now for both micro and macro. I was an Economics undergrad and taught extensively, so I'm just spending some time refreshing. I also have uh, access to some expensive economics books if you're interested. Private message me.

Edited March 19, 2013 by jm08

[soaps]

DC is especially atrocious in this regard. The city attracts people who couldn't get top private sector jobs in nyc/boston/sf, etc. and come to DC to work in government/politics as some congressional aide, hoping to become the next clinton or obama. It's pretty amusing.

 

MBA programs have a lot of arrogant people as well of course, but at the top schools most of the students are actually accomplished, with real work experience and leadership. Comparing them to Hill employees is not the right analogy.

 

The city attracts a bunch of political science students who are just as arrogant as the undergrads going off to big banks/companies elsewhere. None of them are more intelligent than any other... they're/we're all dumb and inexperienced at that age. Do you really think being a fresh analyst at Goldman Sachs requires more than spreadsheet drudgery? It's not that hard to price a stock/commodity/whatever. 

 

SF is a completely different ball game, as is the entire west coast, and it's not hard to get a job in SF if you're in the right industry and have the right personality. It's much more meritocratic, and no one cares about your pedigree. It's a matter of what you chose to study and how creative you are. 

 

Who wants to work in Boston? I say that half in jest but also because you're unusually fixated with Boston when everyone I know who lives there (especially Harvard students) think it's not a real city. Beautiful and quaint, yes, but how crazy can the HBS lifestyle be when the bars and subways close at 1AM? With apologies to any Bostonians... 

 

And even former staff assistants can go on to HBS, by the way. I know one who's going there now. 

Edited March 19, 2013 by soapwater

[ZacharyObama]

I have certainly had my suspicions that we are being trolled, but at this point I'm finding it more entertaining to take his comments at face value.

 

@Revolution: if you are a troll - then, bravo! While many of your posts are absurd, you inject them with layers of earnestness and naivete that make them quite compelling.

 

Agreed. But at a certain point it gets kind of pathetic and not worth your time and since decisions have been made and everyone has had some time to consider their options for the most part, I'd just cut him loose. I help moderate a very large liberal political discussion board and as fun as engaging the trolls can be sometimes, all that really happens in the end is that you get sucked into their game. That he's ignoring the call-outs that are being made is proof positive that this is nothing but a troll.

 

Anyways, just my two cents and I felt bad not passing along that there was someone in the IP Chat who was perfectly happy to press the buzzer on his friends lame-ass trolling. I could speculate on his motivations, but if anything, what it does in the end is speak to the true quality of JHU SAIS and public policy/international relations programs in general; we're not populated by Gordon Gecko/Mitt Romney types.

 

Aloha. Time to do my FAFSA!

Edited March 19, 2013 by ZacharyObama

[JFactor]

In terms of waiver exams, I'm studying now for both micro and macro. I was an Economics undergrad and taught extensively, so I'm just spending some time refreshing. I also have uh, access to some expensive economics books if you're interested. Private message me.

 

If I end up choosing SAIS, I'm also thinking of studying on my own and taking the micro-and macro exam in May/June as I was also an econ undergrad. However, I'm not a math wizard by any means so I'm wondering how extensive your knowledge of calculus has to be in order to pass these exams and what's the format of the exams etc. I'm definitely going to ask for more information on the exams, but based on the list of books and topics that you posted in this thread earlier, I have at least one of those books from my time as an undergrad and the topics didn't sound too challenging.

 

I'm also thinking whether it would be feasible to take the Theories of International Relations waiver exam in the summer as well. All three could be too much so perhaps I'll just do one econ waiver and the IR theory exam and complete the other econ course during pre-term in Bologna. But if choose SAIS, my plan is definitely to get as many of these courses out of the way as possible so I have more room for electives.

[jm08]

I've lived in SF for the last three years, and for some industries it is just as competitive or moreso because many people want to be on the West Coast due to the standard of living and proximity to Silicon Valley, VC firms, Google, Apple, Stanford, Berkeley, etc. 

 

I agree that SF seems to be more meritocratic and much less obsessed with pedigree, but...it's strange...everyone is hyper-accomplished, but nobody spends any time talking about. What we obsess about is our hobbies -- and what cool show, road trip, adventure we did that weekend. That's where people get weird and competitive, seriously!

 

Heh, the real challenge isn't finding jobs -- it's finding a place to live. My current place is $1,300/mo with roommates. Now that we're all leaving the landlord is charging $2,000 per person per month; and we had people coming with their checkbooks when we were conducting interviews.  All the newly minted Google and Apple millionaires in their 20s have completely bid up the rental and housing market. It is insane. 

Edited March 19, 2013 by jm08

[soaps]

I have certainly had my suspicions that we are being trolled, but at this point I'm finding it more entertaining to take his comments at face value.

 

@Revolution: if you are a troll - then, bravo! While many of your posts are absurd, you inject them with layers of earnestness and naivete that make them quite compelling.

 

The key to effective trolling is to elicit angry responses with minimal effort. Revolution puts in a lot of effort for people just to end up calling him a troll and laughing. 

[Revolution]

@DevEcon, glad to meet someone else who is considering SAIS IDEV!

 

My decision-making on (likely) choosing SAIS over HKS is based on the following factors:

• The SAIS curriculum is more aligned with my long-term goals. I did not apply to the HKS MPA/ID program because it's more geared toward people who want to pursue a PhD and/or those who want to spend the majority of their career in-country. MPA/ID students take PhD-level economics courses, and as much as I love math, it's overkill for what I want to do. HKS is a public policy school first and foremost with an "international concentration"; whereas SAIS could be considered the opposite. 
• I was fortunate to receive about $50,000 from SAIS in fellowship funds. We hear from HKS re: financial aid in early April. I highly doubt I'll receive the same level of funding, which is a major part of my decision-making.
• The DC location for obvious reasons. I'm actually moving to Cambridge in two weeks, so I'll be better able to compare the two locations. 
• SAIS is its own entity -- no undergrads or other graduate programs, which is nice to receive that level of attention and resources.
• HKS does "win" in terms of formal programs with top MBA programs. However, the Wharton/SAIS combination is very aligned with what I want to do. 
• The "Harvard" brand isn't really influencing my decision much. People in my field hold SAIS in high regard and it is those people whose opinions matter -- not my neighbors. And, if I'm lucky, any insecure / prestige-thing I might have deep inside can be met by whatever MBA program I attend. 
• All the SAIS students I have met and worked with really "click" with me as people. HKS has been a bit hit-or-miss. 
• Job-wise, I have a strong network, so I'm not really dependent on either school in terms of "access" to jobs; but, both networks are still awesome in their respective areas. 

I think that's about it.

 

What about you? What programs are you considering and what are you thinking about?

 

In terms of waiver exams, I'm studying now for both micro and macro. I was an Economics undergrad and taught extensively, so I'm just spending some time refreshing. I also have uh, access to some expensive economics books if you're interested. Private message me.

 

Very interesting points. Regarding SAIS being its own entity, can one argue that it could be a disadvantage since your potential network will be smaller than HKS given that at the latter you are part of harvard university and close to MIT as well as other schools in boston?

 

I still have not gotten a clear answer from SAIS on the specific career resources questions I had. It looks like they're trying to dodge answering the tough questions that will guide my decision in the coming weeks.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Revolution

[jm08]

I believe the calculus on the exams is pretty basic -- first-order derivatives, functions (power, logarithmic, exponential), etc. It all sounds intimidating, especially if you haven't taken math in a few years, but it is really formulaic, plug-and-chug type stuff, and of course, knowing what goes where. I "heard" that some SAIS teachers drop the calculus portion of their class because the majority of students were getting nervous. Again, third-hand information...

 

Anyhow, I'm going to attempt to take the exams, and if I fail there is always pre-term. I only need to pass microeconomics to stay in IDEV as it's a requirement for the program before school starts.

 

Taking three exams...is ambitious, but hey if you have the time and background you might as well give it a shot! Worst case, you have to take the course. Not a big deal. 

 

I have not seen anyone post how difficult the exams are so it's hard to calibrate how much studying needs to be done. If anyone comes across that information, please, please post!

[Revolution]

The city attracts a bunch of political science students who are just as arrogant as the undergrads going off to big banks/companies elsewhere. None of them are more intelligent than any other... they're/we're all dumb and inexperienced at that age. Do you really think being a fresh analyst at Goldman Sachs requires more than spreadsheet drudgery? It's not that hard to price a stock/commodity/whatever. 

 

SF is a completely different ball game, as is the entire west coast, and it's not hard to get a job in SF if you're in the right industry and have the right personality. It's much more meritocratic, and no one cares about your pedigree. It's a matter of what you chose to study and how creative you are. 

 

Who wants to work in Boston? I say that half in jest but also because you're unusually fixated with Boston when everyone I know who lives there (especially Harvard students) think it's not a real city. Beautiful and quaint, yes, but how crazy can the HBS lifestyle be when the bars and subways close at 1AM? With apologies to any Bostonians... 

 

And even former staff assistants can go on to HBS, by the way. I know one who's going there now. 

 

Of course doing the work at goldman as an analyst is mind numbing and boring. But GETTING that job out of college is difficult. Same goes for MBB consulting. You need to have top grades from top colleges with decent extracurriculars, relevant internships, and then destroy the interviews. Very few fresh college grads working on the hill could get those jobs.

 

I agree that boston sort of sucks if you're not a student. But given my professional interests, there are some amazing buyside firms there. You have long-only mutual funds such as fidelity, wellington, mfs, state street, putnam. Then you have major endowment funds at harvard and mit. And then interesting hedge funds such as convexity, bracebridge, high vista, weiss, alpha simplex, baupost, bain capital brookside, etc.