Revolution Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Smart man...turn down 500K job, to take out loans, then go to b-school, to accept job paying 160K. The Logic of a Snob 1. People leave very high paying jobs to go to top b-schools; it's quite common. And with megafund private equity firms such as blackstone, kkr, bain capital, carlyle, tpg, etc., they basically kick you out after 2-3 years and send you to hbs/stanford/wharton. This is because PE people see enormous value in a top MBA. 2. It would be more than $160K. But that's not the point. Depending on one's goals and objectives, as well as the school in question, turning down a high paying job could make sense in the LONG run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Did you get any response from SAIS on detailed split of organisations recruiting there? I will be talking to sidney jackson, the admissions director, tomorrow to discuss my questions and concerns. He called me today and left a voicemail, but I was unavailable at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) 1. People leave very high paying jobs to go to top b-schools; it's quite common. And with megafund private equity firms such as blackstone, kkr, bain capital, carlyle, tpg, etc., they basically kick you out after 2-3 years and send you to hbs/stanford/wharton. This is because PE people see enormous value in a top MBA. 2. It would be more than $160K. But that's not the point. Depending on one's goals and objectives, as well as the school in question, turning down a high paying job could make sense in the LONG run. Oops. Sorry for the double post. Edited March 21, 2013 by Revolution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansac111 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I will be talking to sidney jackson, the admissions director, tomorrow to discuss my questions and concerns. He called me today and left a voicemail, but I was unavailable at the time. Good please post your observations here....Also I got admitted into Darden MBA yesterday but no funding ... I believe Darden does not allow to combine degree with SAIS.... so it would be a tough decision for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) Good please post your observations here....Also I got admitted into Darden MBA yesterday but no funding ... I believe Darden does not allow to combine degree with SAIS.... so it would be a tough decision for me Congrats on darden! Actually SAIS does have a joint degree with darden, along with tuck, insead, wharton, and stanford. HKS has joint degrees with hbs, mit, tuck, wharton, kellogg, and stanford. You could also do ad hoc with schools not on this list, but it will be more difficult and may take 3.5 years rather than 3. What are your career goals? Darden is strong in consulting but weak in east coast finance. Their students do pretty well with MBB consulting. If you could only do one program, and your goals are in the private sector, go with darden. I know it sucks to not get funding from a b-school, but darden without funding will get you to where you need to be if your career goals are in consulting, banking, general management, Fortune 500. Edited March 21, 2013 by Revolution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansac111 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Congrats on darden! Actually SAIS does have a joint degree with darden, along with tuck, insead, wharton, and stanford. HKS has joint degrees with hbs, mit, tuck, wharton, kellogg, and stanford. You could also do ad hoc with schools not on this list, but it will be more difficult and may take 3.5 years rather than 3. What are your career goals? Darden is strong in consulting but weak in east coast finance. Their students do pretty well with MBB consulting. Thanks! Well, I would like to work on risk management issues and analyzing regulatory & political developments to guide global investments. darden was at one point strong with MBB... Lately though I think schools like Duke have upstaged darden ... I am still waiting to hear from some good schools in east cost ..lets see how it goes what are your career goals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Thanks! Well, I would like to work on risk management issues and analyzing regulatory & political developments to guide global investments. darden was at one point strong with MBB... Lately though I think schools like Duke have upstaged darden ... I am still waiting to hear from some good schools in east cost ..lets see how it goes what are your career goals? Ok. If that's your career goals, SAIS could work. I still think any top 15 MBA will deliver more value than a policy program because an MBA is more fungible, flexible, and well-regarded, even in many areas of the public sphere. You're right about MBB. Darden is good, but fuqua has done very well with MBB lately. If i'm not mistaken mckinsey hired around 20 from duke fuqua last year. I'm also anxiously awaiting from a few east coast schools as well as a certain school in Chicago that is the mecca of finance. My short-term goal ideally is macro investment research at a major bank, hopefully in hong kong or singapore. Long-term i'm interested in becoming a portfolio manager at an asian sovereign wealth fund or a macro hedge fund such as brevan howard, soros, moore, tudor, caxton, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansac111 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 My short-term goal ideally is macro investment research at a major bank, hopefully in hong kong or singapore. Long-term i'm interested in becoming a portfolio manager at an asian sovereign wealth fund or a macro hedge fund such as brevan howard, soros, moore, tudor, caxton, etc. If you leave aside the socialising part, than SAIS could work well for you as well. Especially if you can add CFA on the side.. I recall that on a SAIS webinar on monday they were mentioning that it is very strong for finance jobs in HK and Shanghai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansac111 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 You're right about MBB. Darden is good, but fuqua has done very well with MBB lately. If i'm not mistaken mckinsey hired around 20 from duke fuqua last year. I'm also anxiously awaiting from a few east coast schools as well as a certain school in Chicago that is the mecca of finance. what's your view on Mccombs (texas)? especially for energy finance and the recent shale boom I know its not an elite school but I have got generous funding from them so was wondering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) If you leave aside the socialising part, than SAIS could work well for you as well. Especially if you can add CFA on the side.. I recall that on a SAIS webinar on monday they were mentioning that it is very strong for finance jobs in HK and Shanghai I'm hoping to get more clarification tomorrow. But from what i've gathered, sais does well with world bank/imf/fed, but it struggles with banks. I've reached out to a few SAIS alums via linkedin who are now doing similar work to what i'm interested in. And they said it was VERY hard to get their jobs and that career services gave them almost no support. I am also aware of the finance career treks to nyc, london, hong kong, and singapore, but treks aren't that useful at all in terms of getting jobs. Most of the jobs at banks are found through on-campus recruiting, and if banks don't officially recruit you really have to hustle like a madman. I could change my mind on this, but doing SAIS alone without a corresponding MBA is a HUGE gamble for me, one that could backfire badly, and the potential upside is quite limited. What evidence they give during the webinar that they are "very strong" for finance jobs in HK and Shanghai? Specific firms? Number of hires? As for the socializing, yeah if i do go to sais i will barely go out and basically be a hermit, focusing on classes and job search. It will be a far cry from b-school; that's for sure. Edited March 21, 2013 by Revolution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 what's your view on Mccombs (texas)? especially for energy finance and the recent shale boom I know its not an elite school but I have got generous funding from them so was wondering UT Austin is good if you want to work in the energy sector in texas, but that's about it. I mean if that interests you then go for it, but otherwise darden wins out. What other schools are you waiting to hear from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansac111 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 What evidence they give during the webinar that they are "very strong" for finance jobs in HK and Shanghai? Specific firms? Number of hires? Nope nothing of that sort..just a generic statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Nope nothing of that sort..just a generic statement Yeah, then ignore it. During the webinar did they give any actual specifics on finance recruiting and job placement? Or was it generic stuff you can find on the website? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm08 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 @ansac111 - hey, my understanding was that Darden, similar to HBS, does not allow ad-hoc dual-degree programs. You either have to do a MA with another UVA department or nothing at all. I looked on their website and it was pretty specific. If you find out otherwise could you post here? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansac111 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 @ansac111 - hey, my understanding was that Darden, similar to HBS, does not allow ad-hoc dual-degree programs. You either have to do a MA with another UVA department or nothing at all. I looked on their website and it was pretty specific. If you find out otherwise could you post here? Thanks! Yes, I thought so myself..but Revolution says they allow so I will call them today to find out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansac111 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 UT Austin is good if you want to work in the energy sector in texas, but that's about it. I mean if that interests you then go for it, but otherwise darden wins out. What other schools are you waiting to hear from? Got rejected from Wharton, Chicago and acceptance from Ross, Darden, Mccombs Still waiting to hear from NYU and Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Got rejected from Wharton, Chicago and acceptance from Ross, Darden, Mccombs Still waiting to hear from NYU and Johnson I hear from wharton and booth next week, and I'm freaking out!!!!! If i get in, it will truly be a life changing event, one that will allow me access to my dream finance jobs and the best 2 years of my life. Good luck with stern and cornell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansac111 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Yeah, then ignore it. During the webinar did they give any actual specifics on finance recruiting and job placement? Or was it generic stuff you can find on the website? Well to be fair to them, they were doing their best to manage expectations..For example they clearly said that MBB do not recruit at SAIS...Also from other sources I have found out that if you want a job in private banking sector than you are largely on your own. During boom periods , when Banks were on a hiring spree, many SAISer did end up working in New york out of their own volition...but times have changed even MBAs are facing difficulties let alone people with MA in IR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm08 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) The only rising star I know of is Kellogg in terms of MBB recruitment. Just as a FYI, earlier in the thread Revolution and I had a lot of posts on the behind-the-scenes process of consulting and finance recruiting for MA candidates in case you wanted to peruse. (Obvi) bottom-line -- it's an uphill battle, especially if you do not have prior experience. I once conducted case study practice for a friend at Fletcher. It was a nightmare and his MBB interview was in 3 days. Sometimes I don't think people know what they are getting into and/or the expectation level of these firms. Edited March 21, 2013 by jm08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Well to be fair to them, they were doing their best to manage expectations..For example they clearly said that MBB do not recruit at SAIS...Also from other sources I have found out that if you want a job in private banking sector than you are largely on your own. During boom periods , when Banks were on a hiring spree, many SAISer did end up working in New york out of their own volition...but times have changed even MBAs are facing difficulties let alone people with MA in IR So true. These are rough times. This is a debate I have with my friends all the time. Is the current finance downturn merely cyclical, or is there a deeper paradigm shift going on? At bank trading desks, the low volume and volatility, the rise of algorithms, and regulations, are crushing once very profitable desks. Banks have been cutting people across all divisions. Private equity actually seems to have recovered due to the improvement in the credit market, and PE firms are finding relatively good deals, especially outside the U.S. As for hedge funds, it's a mixed bag. Macro funds have been having a hard time dealing with the current environment in which policymakers and central bankers are dictating the financial markets. Long-short equity and event driven are all over the map. Interesting times indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansac111 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 So true. These are rough times. This is a debate I have with my friends all the time. Is the current finance downturn merely cyclical, or is there a deeper paradigm shift going on? At bank trading desks, the low volume and volatility, the rise of algorithms, and regulations, are crushing once very profitable desks. Banks have been cutting people across all divisions. Private equity actually seems to have recovered due to the improvement in the credit market, and PE firms are finding relatively good deals, especially outside the U.S. As for hedge funds, it's a mixed bag. Macro funds have been having a hard time dealing with the current environment in which policymakers and central bankers are dictating the financial markets. Long-short equity and event driven are all over the map. Interesting times indeed. Well you can thank your President for it...with so much unnecessary and counter-productive regulations. I would not be surprised if Hong Kong surpasses New York as world's financial hub 123seekay123 and Pinkman 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Well you can thank your President for it...with so much unnecessary and counter-productive regulations. I would not be surprised if Hong Kong surpasses New York as world's financial hub Oh boy, you just opened up a can of worms. Don't even get me started on our president. I believe he is the worst president in terms of economic policy since Lyndon Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansac111 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 The only rising star I know of is Kellogg in terms of MBB recruitment. Just as a FYI, earlier in the thread Revolution and I had a lot of posts on the behind-the-scenes process of consulting and finance recruiting for MA candidates in case you wanted to peruse. (Obvi) bottom-line -- it's an uphill battle, especially if you do not have prior experience. I once conducted case study practice for a friend at Fletcher. It was a nightmare and his MBB interview was in 3 days. Sometimes I don't think people know what they are getting into and/or the expectation level of these firms. Thanks for the info. Well I believe as an international candidate that if I want I can get into MBB (outside of US). The key thing is to get into MBB within US, which is ofcourse highly competitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm08 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 You both raise a strong point on the role of regulation and its impact across the financial services industry. @Revolution, I actually believe they have a class at SAIS dedicated to this topic if you wanted to analyze things from more of a structural perspective. Or, maybe this topic is just reserved for arguing over drinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm08 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) I have zero insight into MBB recruiting outside the US. I do know the process is similar, but no clue if it is easier or more difficult recruitment-wise. If I may ask, where are you located now? Edit - wow, I'm apparently blind. New Dehli! Edited March 21, 2013 by jm08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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