soaps Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 I've lived in SF for the last three years, and for some industries it is just as competitive or moreso because many people want to be on the West Coast due to the standard of living and proximity to Silicon Valley, VC firms, Google, Apple, Stanford, Berkeley, etc. I agree that SF seems to be more meritocratic and much less obsessed with pedigree, but...it's strange...everyone is hyper-accomplished, but nobody spends any time talking about. What we obsess about is our hobbies -- and what cool show, road trip, adventure we did that weekend. That's where people get weird and competitive, seriously! Heh, the real challenge isn't finding jobs -- it's finding a place to live. My current place is $1,300/mo with roommates. Now that we're all leaving the landlord is charging $2,000 per person per month; and we had people coming with their checkbooks when we were conducting interviews. All the newly minted Google and Apple millionaires in their 20s have completely bid up the rental and housing market. It is insane. The greatest thing about the west coast (aside from the superior natural beauty) is that it's generally rude to ask where you went to school, how much money you make, etc. Like you said, people are genuinely more interested in what you're passionate about, what your hobbies are, and so on. I understand what you mean about that side of things being competitive as well. I'm not sure how many mountains my techy friends over there have to summit before they become cool, but it must be a lot. Unfortunately the west coast is a deadzone for what I'm interested in. Maybe after a few tours in the foreign service I can head back out that way and have a family. What are you doing in SF now, out of curiosity?
jm08 Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) @Revolution -- I think the network part depends on each individual person. The types of people I'd like to meet at SAIS are a bit different than who I would target at a MBA program - and part of the reason I want to do a joint degree. And then you have to take into consideration the size and strength of your existing network before school starts. I'm going to screw up the exact wording, but I believe in "smart people build their networks before you need them". Besides, do you really think the poor [insert top school in whatever field] actually enjoys being mobbed by dozens of students oh-so-eager to make a "good impression"? People get cynical real fast... Edited March 19, 2013 by jm08 123seekay123 1
JFactor Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 I believe the calculus on the exams is pretty basic -- first-order derivatives, functions (power, logarithmic, exponential), etc. It all sounds intimidating, especially if you haven't taken math in a few years, but it is really formulaic, plug-and-chug type stuff, and of course, knowing what goes where. I "heard" that some SAIS teachers drop the calculus portion of their class because the majority of students were getting nervous. Again, third-hand information... Anyhow, I'm going to attempt to take the exams, and if I fail there is always pre-term. I only need to pass microeconomics to stay in IDEV as it's a requirement for the program before school starts. Taking three exams...is ambitious, but hey if you have the time and background you might as well give it a shot! Worst case, you have to take the course. Not a big deal. I have not seen anyone post how difficult the exams are so it's hard to calibrate how much studying needs to be done. If anyone comes across that information, please, please post! Thanks for the preliminary info on the math requirements. I'll let you know if I get a useful response from them regarding the content/difficulty of the waiver exams etc.
jm08 Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 @JFactor -- not a problem, hope it helped. I think sometimes people see calculus and panic a little (not saying you did, of course), but again, it simply LOOKS difficult. Once you've done a couple of problem sets and/or someone breaks it down...it's like -- why was I worried? Math is your friend! JFactor 1
Revolution Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 @JFactor -- not a problem, hope it helped. I think sometimes people see calculus and panic a little (not saying you did, of course), but again, it simply LOOKS difficult. Once you've done a couple of problem sets and/or someone breaks it down...it's like -- why was I worried? Math is your friend! Why are people so scared of math? It's the foundation for everything.
JFactor Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 @JFactor -- not a problem, hope it helped. I think sometimes people see calculus and panic a little (not saying you did, of course), but again, it simply LOOKS difficult. Once you've done a couple of problem sets and/or someone breaks it down...it's like -- why was I worried? Math is your friend! I agree, and I think the same goes with Economics in general as well. So many people I know who studied IR "hated" econ just because it looks and feels a little different from your basic IR texts (or other qualitative stuff) but once you actually start doing it, you realize that the image you have of econ (or math) is different from reality.
Revolution Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 jm08, you seem to know both DC and Boston reasonably well. In terms of social prestige and clout, do you think SAIS carries more weight in DC than HKS does in Boston? 123seekay123, riverguide, mrgreen102 and 2 others 5
jm08 Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) Ask me this question in 3 weeks and I can give you a better answer. I'm moving to Cambridge, so I haven't spent any real time there aside from visiting people. And...I'm not even sure how to answer, I think it depends on who you are talking to and the type of field you want to go into. I'd hypothesize that SAIS is considered the "top" school in DC along with Gtown and people react accordingly. I know in *some* circles people in the Harvard community don't feel that HKS is on the same level as HBS, HLS, and HMS. They tend to keep their opinions to themselves, but the undercurrent is there. Outside the Harvard community, the H-bomb exists and impresses people who are into that type of thing. In terms of private sector employers, I'd imagine MBB and top IB folks would be open to MA or MPA candidates, but you'd have a rougher interview process and they would have concerns over your judgment and decision-making (i.e., why do you not have a MBA?). But, top candidates can get in anywhere if they can back it up. For more traditional MA and MPA employers, I can see both degrees carrying similar weight. I think SAIS has the leg up for simply being in DC and next-door neighbors with the majority of think-tanks, NGOs, multi-laterals, yadda yadda; and SIPA for the UN crowd and maybe some finance jobs. No clue how being in Boston impacts Fletcher and HKS folks due to the geographic distance. I don't really know...to be quite honest. So, take everything I said with a grain-of-salt. However, nobody likes people that are desperate, try-too-hard, or obnoxious -- even if they have those same traits. Edited March 19, 2013 by jm08 123seekay123 1
Revolution Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Ask me this question in 3 weeks and I can give you a better answer. I'm moving to Cambridge, so I haven't spent any real time there aside from visiting people. And...I'm not even sure how to answer, I think it depends on who you are talking to and the type of field you want to go into. I'd hypothesize that SAIS is considered the "top" school in DC along with Gtown and people react accordingly. I know in *some* circles people in the Harvard community don't feel that HKS is on the same level as HBS, HLS, and HMS. They tend to keep their opinions to themselves, but the undercurrent is there. Outside the Harvard community, the H-bomb exists and impresses people who are into that type of thing. In terms of private sector employers, I'd imagine MBB and top IB folks would be open to MA or MPA candidates, but you'd have a rougher interview process and they would have concerns over your judgment and decision-making (i.e., why do you not have a MBA?). But, top candidates can get in anywhere if they can back it up. For more traditional MA and MPA employers, I can see both degrees carrying similar weight. I think SAIS has the leg up for simply being in DC and next-door neighbors with the majority of think-tanks, NGOs, multi-laterals, yadda yadda; and SIPA for the UN crowd and maybe some finance jobs. No clue how being in Boston impacts Fletcher and HKS folks due to the geographic distance. I don't really know...to be quite honest. So, take everything I said with a grain-of-salt. However, nobody likes people that are desperate, try-too-hard, or obnoxious -- even if they have those same traits. Thanks for this informative post. I've looked at SIPA's career placement, and they send a lot of people to ratings agencies in NYC (moody's, s&p) and some to banks for investment research type jobs. But bulk do seem to go into UN type of places. MBB consulting firms do NOT recruit at SAIS but do recruit at HKS, if i'm not mistaken. I could be wrong on this though. The point you raise does concern me a lot if i don't get into mba and have to do sais alone. Let's say i get interviews at banks or consulting firms, and the mba question comes up. Do I make up an elaborate story on why i chose sais or just admit that i didn't get into the top mba programs due to their hyper-competitive admissions, especially for finance guys? Lots to think about.
jm08 Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) Err...I don't think being upfront with them re: your MBA decisions is going to help. As long as you have a logical reason that passes the "sniff" test you should be fine. I'm a little brain dead to throw ideas out there re: well-reasoned BS -- a skill that all graduate students need, I think. (I kid) Check out managementconsulted.com if you want information on how to "break into" MBB without going to a target program. But, again, I think it's a silly idea, but people make it work each year. Also check out Victor Chang, who in my humble opinion has the best case training and insights into top firms. Anyhow, just reference material as I know 99% of people on this board aren't interested in management consulting. So, my last post on the topic. Although I will put forth that the training that you receive at these firms will set you up for life, and provide you a great platform to move into any industry. Most firms kick people out after 2 years with this understanding. Something to chew on. @Revolution -- I think you have a tough road ahead of you, unfortunately, unless you're opening to altering your career goals a bit. Edited March 19, 2013 by jm08 riverguide 1
Revolution Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Err...I don't think being upfront with them re: your MBA decisions is going to help. As long as you have a logical reason that passes the "sniff" test you should be fine. I'm a little brain dead to throw ideas out there re: well-reasoned BS -- a skill that all graduate students need, I think. (I kid) Check out managementconsulted.com if you want information on how to "break into" MBB without going to a target program. But, again, I think it's a silly idea, but people make it work each year. Also check out Victor Chang, who in my humble opinion has the best case training and insights into top firms. Anyhow, just reference material as I know 99% of people on this board aren't interested in management consulting. So, my last post on the topic. Although I will put forth that the training that you receive at these firms will set you up for life, and provide you a great platform to move into any industry. Most firms kick people out after 2 years with this understanding. Something to chew on. @Revolution -- I think you have a tough road ahead of you, unfortunately, unless you're opening to altering your career goals a bit. I actually have no interest in MBB consulting. Just brought it up as food for thought. SAIS is receiving VERY high volume of e-mails, so they told me that they will get back to me regarding my questions in the next few days to a week.
Revolution Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Got a response from the person at SAIS admissions regarding my questions. She said that career services are for students, but she will try to find someone who can answer some of my questions. Thus far, SAIS is not making a good impression at all. I get the sense that they are trying to reveal as little as possible about career placement or which firms actually hire sais students. Hopefully I'm wrong on this. Clay Made and 123seekay123 2
Clay Made Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Got a response from the person at SAIS admissions regarding my questions. She said that career services are for students, but she will try to find someone who can answer some of my questions. Thus far, SAIS is not making a good impression at all. I get the sense that they are trying to reveal as little as possible about career placement or which firms actually hire sais students. Hopefully I'm wrong on this. What do you expect them to tell you? Career placement varies so much at a place like SAIS. I think you'll find more about placements by simply checking out LinkedIn and reaching out to alums once at the program. riverguide 1
Revolution Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 What do you expect them to tell you? Career placement varies so much at a place like SAIS. I think you'll find more about placements by simply checking out LinkedIn and reaching out to alums once at the program. First, their tone towards my questions were quite dismissive. Second, I did not ask them for a detailed spreadsheet like the ones you can find for b-schools. I simply had a few basic questions on private sector recruiting, finance placement, and first-years who apply to mba programs. It doesn't speak well for a program if one of their staff members cannot at least address these points.
dyavrom Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 First, their tone towards my questions were quite dismissive. Second, I did not ask them for a detailed spreadsheet like the ones you can find for b-schools. I simply had a few basic questions on private sector recruiting, finance placement, and first-years who apply to mba programs. It doesn't speak well for a program if one of their staff members cannot at least address these points. yeah ive got to agree. SAIS has been the only school (in my experience) so far that refuses to let admitted students check out their career services database. im still waiting on an email listing the employers that have recruited the SAIS career fair
lomsaku Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Thus far, SAIS is not making a good impression at all. I get the sense that they are trying to reveal as little as possible about career placement or which firms actually hire sais students. Hopefully I'm wrong on this. Employment outcomes for the last 6 years. The admissions staff isn't trying to hide things from you. If anything, the confusing SAIS website redesign is preventing prospective students from finding the information that is published and available. http://legacy2.sais-jhu.edu/career-services-content/pdf/2007SAIS_Emplyment_Outcomes.pdf http://legacy2.sais-jhu.edu/career-services-content/pdf/SAIS_Employment_Outcomes08.pdf http://legacy2.sais-jhu.edu/career-services-content/pdf/SAIS_EmpOutlk09.pdf http://legacy2.sais-jhu.edu/career-services-content/pdf/SAIS_EmpOutlk10.pdf http://legacy2.sais-jhu.edu/career-services-content/pdf/2011_EmplymentOutcomes.pdf http://www.jhubc.it/ADMISSIONSBLOGDOCUMENTS/SAIS_EOR_ClassOf2012%20%281%29.pdf Clay Made 1
Revolution Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 yeah ive got to agree. SAIS has been the only school (in my experience) so far that refuses to let admitted students check out their career services database. im still waiting on an email listing the employers that have recruited the SAIS career fair Interesting to see what response you get. I unfortunately missed the career services presentation on monday morning. Either way, I agree with you that SAIS is being way too secretive on career placement, which for me is by far the most important criteria when selecting a grad school.
Clay Made Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 First, their tone towards my questions were quite dismissive. Second, I did not ask them for a detailed spreadsheet like the ones you can find for b-schools. I simply had a few basic questions on private sector recruiting, finance placement, and first-years who apply to mba programs. It doesn't speak well for a program if one of their staff members cannot at least address these points. My interactions with them have been great. They're helpful and attentive to my situation. I suppose if you phrase your questions in a tone even slightly similar to your posts here, I can see why they're dismissive. The answer to these questions have been posted here numerous times. I think I saw someone post that no firms recruit on campus but its all about networking. Why not do some research and reach out to current students or alums yourself? Everything doesnt have to be afforded to you. You keep mentioning business school. Why did you apply to SAIS? I'm sure you could have taken a few classes whilst a b school to satisfy your need for the IR experience if that may be the reason. It seems like you have far too much expectations from the program and expect it to be a substitute for an MBA program. SAIS is a great school and I'm sure you'd have a great experience if you'll change your attitude about it. Sorry if this harsh but I've just gone through your last dozen or so posts and it doesnt make you look good I'm afraid.
soaps Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) Got a response from the person at SAIS admissions regarding my questions. She said that career services are for students, but she will try to find someone who can answer some of my questions. Thus far, SAIS is not making a good impression at all. I get the sense that they are trying to reveal as little as possible about career placement or which firms actually hire sais students. Hopefully I'm wrong on this. SAIS does publish which firms hire students, just not how many and not their specific positions/titles. It's confusing that, on top of wanting to use SAIS as a stepping stone to some high-paying private sector job, you think it's particularly good for private sector placement compared to other PP/IA schools. If anything its statistics indicate the opposite. For example, SIPA's median salary for the MIA for private sector is $72,500 compared to SAIS at $65,000. For the MPA at SIPA it jumps to $80,000. SAIS fares slightly better than both the MPA and MIA for public sector salaries, although that could be because it parses out multilateral orgs. from its public sector category. I think this discrepancy can mainly be attributed to SIPA being in NYC, but who knows? SIPA has much better placement in finance/banking, so that would make sense. But it's a lovely irony that SAIS seems to fare better for public sector salaries and that's precisely what you don't care about. Edited March 20, 2013 by soapwater
Clay Made Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 yeah ive got to agree. SAIS has been the only school (in my experience) so far that refuses to let admitted students check out their career services database. im still waiting on an email listing the employers that have recruited the SAIS career fair In my experience, none of the programs have been that forthcoming with those lists. Aside from Fletcher.
Revolution Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) Employment outcomes for the last 6 years. The admissions staff isn't trying to hide things from you. If anything, the confusing SAIS website redesign is preventing prospective students from finding the information that is published and available. http://legacy2.sais-jhu.edu/career-services-content/pdf/2007SAIS_Emplyment_Outcomes.pdf http://legacy2.sais-jhu.edu/career-services-content/pdf/SAIS_Employment_Outcomes08.pdf http://legacy2.sais-jhu.edu/career-services-content/pdf/SAIS_EmpOutlk09.pdf http://legacy2.sais-jhu.edu/career-services-content/pdf/SAIS_EmpOutlk10.pdf http://legacy2.sais-jhu.edu/career-services-content/pdf/2011_EmplymentOutcomes.pdf http://www.jhubc.it/ADMISSIONSBLOGDOCUMENTS/SAIS_EOR_ClassOf2012%20%281%29.pdf Yes, I saw this as well. So for the 2012 report, on the private sector page, it does a nice breakdown of the % of people going to the various fields. Next to the pie chart you see a list of private sector employers. Are these firms that hired at least one SAIS student in that year? Or are they a list of firms that posted jobs in the sais career database? Also, do any of these firms do on-campus company presentations and meet with students? Finally, it would be interesting to know whether the jobs at mbb consulting and major banks are only going to the joint mba-ma students since the sais report does not separate that group from the regular ma students. Edited March 20, 2013 by Revolution
Revolution Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 My interactions with them have been great. They're helpful and attentive to my situation. I suppose if you phrase your questions in a tone even slightly similar to your posts here, I can see why they're dismissive. The answer to these questions have been posted here numerous times. I think I saw someone post that no firms recruit on campus but its all about networking. Why not do some research and reach out to current students or alums yourself? Everything doesnt have to be afforded to you. You keep mentioning business school. Why did you apply to SAIS? I'm sure you could have taken a few classes whilst a b school to satisfy your need for the IR experience if that may be the reason. It seems like you have far too much expectations from the program and expect it to be a substitute for an MBA program. SAIS is a great school and I'm sure you'd have a great experience if you'll change your attitude about it. Sorry if this harsh but I've just gone through your last dozen or so posts and it doesnt make you look good I'm afraid. My questions were straight forward and written in a respectful cordial manner. They evaded my questions several times and kept pointing me to the link even though i told them that i already saw it and had more specific questions. I basically said that given the committment of doing a grad degree, it would be helpful to get more clarity on this before making a final decision in the coming weeks.
Kadisha Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 My interactions with them have been great. They're helpful and attentive to my situation. I suppose if you phrase your questions in a tone even slightly similar to your posts here, I can see why they're dismissive. The answer to these questions have been posted here numerous times. I think I saw someone post that no firms recruit on campus but its all about networking. Why not do some research and reach out to current students or alums yourself? Everything doesnt have to be afforded to you. You keep mentioning business school. Why did you apply to SAIS? I'm sure you could have taken a few classes whilst a b school to satisfy your need for the IR experience if that may be the reason. It seems like you have far too much expectations from the program and expect it to be a substitute for an MBA program. SAIS is a great school and I'm sure you'd have a great experience if you'll change your attitude about it. Sorry if this harsh but I've just gone through your last dozen or so posts and it doesnt make you look good I'm afraid. He's been doing this for the last 2 weeks. Most of us that have been here for a while have chosen to ignore him and his whiney attitude. I suggest you do the same.
Clay Made Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 My questions were straight forward and written in a respectful cordial manner. They evaded my questions several times and kept pointing me to the link even though i told them that i already saw it and had more specific questions. I basically said that given the committment of doing a grad degree, it would be helpful to get more clarity on this before making a final decision in the coming weeks. I'd call them then. So they cant evade your questions. Only so much can be learnt through email
Revolution Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 I'd call them then. So they cant evade your questions. Only so much can be learnt through email I already called them. They said that they're swamped with e-mails and calls and will get back to me later.
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