SAIS application for Fall 2013

[Clay Made]

He's been doing this for the last 2 weeks. Most of us that have been here for a while have chosen to ignore him and his whiney attitude. I suggest you do the same. 

 

Good to know but I figured I'd give him a little info as to what i was aware of. After all, he could be my classmate in the fall.

[lomsaku]

 yeah ive got to agree.  SAIS has been the only school (in my experience) so far that refuses to let admitted students check out their career services database.  im still waiting on an email listing the employers that have recruited the SAIS career fair

 

I would not hang all my employment hopes on the SAIS career fair. It tends to attract a lot of IDEV and defense contractor firms, which is great if that's what you're interested in. A lot of the companies that hire SAIS students do not have the recruiting budget to hold sessions in every city at every major graduate program. A lot of times you will have to do some reasearch to identify your target companies/sectors and seek them out yourself. It's extra legwork, but doable with the right networking skills. Once they have their foot in the door, SAIS students can often draw on their coursework and experiences to talk themselves into a position.

 

Career services does a fairly good job of aggregating job announcements and resume drops into the career database. That said, many many many more opportunities are found through SAIS career club postings, referells from SAIS classmates and alums, networking in DC, and participating in career treks.

 

That being said:

 

Career Fair Attendees, Fall 2010

• Abt Associates
• ACDI/VOCA
• Altegrity Risk International
• BAE Systems Inc.
• Booz Allen Hamilton
• CARANA Corporation
• Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
• DAI
• Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA)
• Education Development Center, Inc. (EDC) 
• FBI
• Homeland Security Institute
• International Resources Group (IRG)
• International Republican Institute
• MicroVest Capital Management
• Nathan Associates Inc.
• NNSA
• OPIC
• Pact
• Peace Corps
• RAND Corporation
• Save the Children
• Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC)
• Taylor-DeJongh
• Tetra Tech ARD, Inc.
• The American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research (AEI)
• The Avascent Group
• U.S. Department of State (DOS) - Foreign & Civil Service
• U.S. Department of State (DOS) - UN Employment
• U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO)
• USAID/Office of US Foreign Disaster Assistance and USAID/Office of Transition Initiatives

[lomsaku]

 Are these firms that hired at least one SAIS student in that year?

Yes.

[Revolution]

Yes.

 

Thanks.

[dyavrom]

In my experience, none of the programs have been that forthcoming with those lists. Aside from Fletcher.

i asked USC and UCLA and they both did, so i guess it just depends on the school.  it makes sense why they wouldn't want to, but i figure its a pretty valuable way to get students interested

[dyavrom]

thanks for the list!

Edited March 20, 2013 by dyavrom

[ridofme]

 im still waiting on an email listing the employers that have recruited the SAIS career fair

 

From page 11 of the 2012 employment report (linked to by lomsaku):

 

 

 

CAREER FAIR Career Services hosts an annual Career Fair during the fall semester in mid-October. The fair is a convenient way for companies to increase their visibility on campus, recruit talent, and to network with highly motivated students and alumni. A sampling of employers who participated in career fairs during previous years include: Abt Associates, ACDI/VOCA, A.T. Kearney Global Business Policy Council, The Avascent Group, Catholic Relief Services, Chemonics International, Clinton Health Access Initiative, Devex, Environmental Defense Fund, FINCA International, FBI, IRS, Kroll, MicroVest Capital Management, Nathan Associates Inc., One Acre Fund, Population Services International, RAND Corporation, Regester Larkin Energy, Search for Common Ground, Toffler Associates, USAID, the U.S. Department of State and the U.S. Department of Treasury. 

 

 

Am I missing something here? 

 

http://www.jhubc.it/ADMISSIONSBLOGDOCUMENTS/SAIS_EOR_ClassOf2012%20%281%29.pdf

[ridofme]

Finally, it would be interesting to know whether the jobs at mbb consulting and major banks are only going to the joint mba-ma students since the sais report does not separate that group from the regular ma students.

 

They do separate that group for salary information, at the very least. 

 

 

 

 

For the Master of Arts graduates of 2012 (non-dual degree), median full-time salaries for each sector were as follows:

Private $63,000

Public $61,000

Multilateral $52,000

Nonprofit $50,000 

 

again: http://www.jhubc.it/ADMISSIONSBLOGDOCUMENTS/SAIS_EOR_ClassOf2012%20%281%29.pdf

[jm08]

I posted this a few pages back with more detail, but keep in mind:

 

"The above figures do not include the additional salary benefits of SAIS graduates employed in the multilateral sector where income is often tax-free. Nor does it include signing bonuses or end-of-year bonuses which can be a significant part of private sector salaries."

 

The only MA program I found that publishes specific data on actual employers is SIPA.

 

MPA: http://sipa.columbia.edu/resources_services/career_services/documents/MPAEmploymentOverview.pdf <-- not sure why this link isn't working. Go here instead: http://sipa.columbia.edu/resources_services/career_services/employment_statistics.html

MIA: http://sipa.columbia.edu/resources_services/career_services/documents/MIAEmploymentOverview.pdf

 

These detailed reports might shed some light on firms you may be interested in that recruit from top IR programs. 

 

Unfortunately, Revolution, if you spoke to someone in their Career Services department I imagine they're all just super busy and stressed. Not a good reason for not answering your very reasonable questions, but, hey benefit of the doubt. I'm sure you have already looked at SAIS + linkedin profiles. That's probably the best way to get more information since your background is in a niche field of finance. 

Edited March 20, 2013 by jm08

[ansac111]

I had a friend in DC who was interning at the same think tank I was. He was in the MSFS program, and he would constantly talk about how "elite" he was in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way. He'd go on and on about MSFS parties and how we (the other interns) should go to them and not be intimidated by his elite crew. Even while he was half-joking, it was also tinged with genuine narcissism which isn't uncommon in DC. 

I don't intent to start another 'Vs' thread but would love to know any cultural differences b/w SAIS and MSFS. I am choosing between the two and so  would appreciate any beneath the surface info.

[ansac111]

Ok, that makes sense. There's no elite b-school in DC unfortunately, and the law students are unbearable. 

@Revolution.. Just curious why don't you like law students? They have type A personality and rather fare well (even compared to MBA's) on your revered dollar yardstick  

[Revolution]

@Revolution.. Just curious why don't you like law students? They have type A personality and rather fare well (even compared to MBA's) on your revered dollar yardstick  

 

Haha. I was on the law track a while back and a bunch of my good college friends ended up going to law school. I guess i like people who are both smart and have relevant real-world work experience. Generally speaking, I find law students to be sort of one-dimensional and risk-averse. So when i look at people i know at harvard law and harvard business, the former are definitely smarter but the latter are more fun to hang out with. Hard to explain but given my personality, outlook, and experiences, I think I will mesh the best socially at a top b-school. This does NOT mean that i won't enjoy SAIS or some other grad program.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Revolution

[riverguide]

I don't intent to start another 'Vs' thread but would love to know any cultural differences b/w SAIS and MSFS. I am choosing between the two and so  would appreciate any beneath the surface info.

 

It all depends on your career goals. They are different animals. I was accepted into the SFS MAAS program but Georgetown, and I hate to use stereotypes, is more geared towards the Foreign Service. Is that your career goal? State?

[JMO]

I posted this a few pages back with more detail, but keep in mind:

 

"The above figures do not include the additional salary benefits of SAIS graduates employed in the multilateral sector where income is often tax-free. Nor does it include signing bonuses or end-of-year bonuses which can be a significant part of private sector salaries."

 

The only MA program I found that publishes specific data on actual employers is SIPA.

 

MPA: http://sipa.columbia.edu/resources_services/career_services/documents/MPAEmploymentOverview.pdf <-- not sure why this link isn't working. Go here instead: http://sipa.columbia.edu/resources_services/career_services/employment_statistics.html

MIA: http://sipa.columbia.edu/resources_services/career_services/documents/MIAEmploymentOverview.pdf

 

These detailed reports might shed some light on firms you may be interested in that recruit from top IR programs. 

 

Unfortunately, Revolution, if you spoke to someone in their Career Services department I imagine they're all just super busy and stressed. Not a good reason for not answering your very reasonable questions, but, hey benefit of the doubt. I'm sure you have already looked at SAIS + linkedin profiles. That's probably the best way to get more information since your background is in a niche field of finance. 

 

While they do publish pretty detailed statistics, they do not distinguish between the recipient of just the MIA or the Dual MIA/MBA or MIA/JD degree.  Which is why you see so much Finance and Banking, you can even see some people employed as attorneys.  

[jm08]

@JMO - thanks for catching that; very important point!

 

That said, the best way to review the document is to assume (worst case) that the "ultra-elite" jobs likely went to dual degree candidates. This is a great question to ask career services at any school if they track that type of information. I hope they do.

[riverguide]

Haha. I was on the law track a while back and a bunch of my good college friends ended up going to law school. I guess i like people who are both smart and have relevant real-world work experience. Generally speaking, I find law students to be sort of one-dimensional and risk-averse. So when i look at people i know at harvard law and harvard business, the former are definitely smarter but the latter are more fun to hang out with. Hard to explain but given my personality, outlook, and experiences, I think I will mesh the best socially at a top b-school. This does NOT mean that i won't enjoy SAIS or some other grad program.

 

Law School teaches a skill set. I was adverse to law school but then I've come to realize that many go there who don't plan to practice -they want to pick up the skill set. I think that when you stand up for someone's liberty and put a jury in a box, you take real risks. Isn't liberty the most precious thing we have? I can see how you think that raw capital rubbing up against raw resources is a risky business. You can lose...uhh... money, right? Seriously, Revolution...I think you will mesh better at a B school, too. It seems to me though that you're taking a long time to make a basic decision that should have been gamed before you applied. Your present analysis seems more geared to hedonistic pursuits than professional pursuits. Five years into the business and nobody cares where you went to school. They just care about the last quarter...

Edited March 20, 2013 by riverguide

[Revolution]

@JMO - thanks for catching that; very important point!

 

That said, the best way to review the document is to assume (worst case) that the "ultra-elite" jobs likely went to dual degree candidates. This is a great question to ask career services at any school if they track that type of information. I hope they do.

 

I agree. I asked this question to sais. If you look at the employment report, you will see MBB consulting and major banks listed on there. My guess is that almost all those jobs went to joint mba-ma students.

[JMO]

Yeah, it can be manipulative.  I am actually at SIPA, and not so many end up doing banking and finance, some go into consulting and what you really learn about are emerging markets, but overall you are not going to end up working for Morgan Stanley. Although some students do end up getting cushy finance jobs, they usually had a similar job previously and were not teaching english in south korea.  Something to think about.  Overall it's a great program and it's such a diverse class as well. You will spend the next 20 years paying back the debt you incur, but it is well worth it.   

[soaps]

I don't intent to start another 'Vs' thread but would love to know any cultural differences b/w SAIS and MSFS. I am choosing between the two and so  would appreciate any beneath the surface info.

 

Culturally SFS seems more in-line with what you expect from other GTown students and GTown residents. Georgetown in general is culturally a little disconnected from the rest of DC and physically disconnected on a transportational level (no subway access). The stereotype (which shouldn't necessarily be trusted) is preppy/privileged. SAIS students are thought to be in Baltimore even though they're not. I don't know that they have any particular cultural reputation in DC outside foreign policy circles.

 

@riverguide, GTown may be more foreign service oriented but I think SAIS has the larger foreign service footprint, same with SIPA. SFS is tiny so that shouldn't be surprising. 

Edited March 20, 2013 by soapwater

[Revolution]

Law School teaches a skill set. I was adverse to law school but then I've come to realize that many go there who don't plan to practice -they want to pick up the skill set. I think that when you stand up for someone's liberty and put a jury in a box, you take real risks. Isn't liberty the most precious thing we have? I can see how you think that raw capital rubbing up against raw resources is a risky business. You can lose...uhh... money, right? Seriously, Revolution...I think you will mesh better at a B school, too. It seems to me though that you're taking a long time to make a basic decision that should have been gamed before you applied. Your present analysis seems more geared to hedonist pursuits than professional pursuits. Five years into the business and nobody cares where you went to school. They just care about the last quarter...

 

Law school does give one a professional credential that is required to practice in the field, unlike an MBA. After all, you don't need an MBA to be in business or to become wealthy. I disagree though that the skills you gain in law school are more substantive or valuable than the skills you pick up in b-school. In addition, your jury example is a bit ridiculous. Vast majority of students from law schools, especially the top ones, end up in private practice. Let's not pretend that most lawyers are doing "noble" work that is somehow more meaningful than MBA grads.

[soaps]

While they do publish pretty detailed statistics, they do not distinguish between the recipient of just the MIA or the Dual MIA/MBA or MIA/JD degree.  Which is why you see so much Finance and Banking, you can even see some people employed as attorneys.  

 

I don't think this is true. The banking positions they report are mostly analysts. Those are not positions for attorneys, much less Columbia Law graduates, much less dual-degree Columbia Law graduates. There's only one attorney position listed in their MPA statistics, and that person may have already had a law degree. There are zero listed for the MIA.

 

No matter what you think about SIPA, no Columbia Law graduate is going to become an analyst at Morgan Stanley or even Goldman. Entry-level paralegal positions are "analyst" positions at banks.

Edited March 20, 2013 by soapwater

[soaps]

Law school does give one a professional credential that is required to practice in the field, unlike an MBA. After all, you don't need an MBA to be in business or to become wealthy. I disagree though that the skills you gain in law school are more substantive or valuable than the skills you pick up in b-school. In addition, your jury example is a bit ridiculous. Vast majority of students from law schools, especially the top ones, end up in private practice. Let's not pretend that most lawyers are doing "noble" work that is somehow more meaningful than MBA grads.

 

It's not more meaningful than public policy grads either. There are top law school and top business school grads who switched careers just to join the Foreign Service, for example, and that was just at the tiny embassy I was at. My PA/PD officer went to Oxford for law, the first political officer went to a top business school. Money isn't everything. Many public service careers lead to more enriching/interesting lives and lifestyles. Both of them had families and were very happy people, and both miserable in their prior career choices. And interestingly enough, their boss (the DCM) went into the FS straight from a state school. This is one reason (among many others) I love the Foreign Service. Life and the satisfaction you take from it aren't a stupid prestige calculus.

Edited March 20, 2013 by soapwater

[JMO]

I don't think this is true. The banking positions they report are mostly analysts. Those are not positions for attorneys, much less Columbia Law graduates, much less dual-degree Columbia Law graduates. There's only one attorney position listed in their MPA statistics, and that person may have already had a law degree. There are zero listed for the MIA.

 

No matter what you think about SIPA, no Columbia Law graduate is going to become an analyst at Morgan Stanley or even Goldman. Entry-level paralegal positions are "analyst" positions at banks.

 

I was talking about the dual MBA/MIA recipients, for which there are quite a few. I was just using the attorney as an example that they don't distinguish between just MIA recipients and the ones that received dual degrees.  I also like to add that I go to SIPA, and am not making this up. 

Edited March 20, 2013 by JMO

[riverguide]

Culturally SFS seems more in-line with what you expect from other GTown students and GTown residents. Georgetown in general is culturally a little disconnected from the rest of DC and physically disconnected on a transportational level (no subway access). The stereotype (which shouldn't necessarily be trusted) is preppy/privileged. SAIS students are thought to be in Baltimore even though they're not. I don't know that they have any particular cultural reputation in DC outside foreign policy circles.

 

@riverguide, GTown may be more foreign service oriented but I think SAIS has the larger foreign service footprint, same with SIPA. SFS is tiny so that shouldn't be surprising. 

 

SAIS grads have more options and are cross trained in more areas. If G'town gave me money, I would go there. I want to have more options and SAIS gives you a broader perspective. Georgetown doesn't have the international economics concentration that is required at SAIS. I'm not an economics guy but at the same time I know that if you don't have an economics background there's always going to be something missing in your analysis and your abilities in the international arena. I was granted permission at my undergrad university to take classes, in my senior year, at their diplomacy grad school. Its top twenty. My professors, who were former high ranking foreign service officers and ambassadors, while chiding me for not going to their school, wrote my recommendations for grad school and unanimously said, "Go to SAIS."

Edited March 20, 2013 by riverguide

[riverguide]

Law school does give one a professional credential that is required to practice in the field, unlike an MBA. After all, you don't need an MBA to be in business or to become wealthy. I disagree though that the skills you gain in law school are more substantive or valuable than the skills you pick up in b-school. In addition, your jury example is a bit ridiculous. Vast majority of students from law schools, especially the top ones, end up in private practice. Let's not pretend that most lawyers are doing "noble" work that is somehow more meaningful than MBA grads.

 

I wouldn't pretend that at all. There's really no lawyer that can compare to the nobility of Jeff Skilling, Raj Rajaratnam or Bernie Maadoff. Law School gives you a broader set of tools and you get a doctorate, too, which allows you to park at hospitals in zones marked "doctors only."

Edited March 20, 2013 by riverguide