SAIS application for Fall 2013

[soaps]

SAIS grads have more options and are cross trained in more areas. If G'town gave me money, I would go there. I want to have more options and SAIS gives you a broader perspective. Georgetown doesn't have the international economics concentration that is required at SAIS. I'm not an economics guy but at the same time I know that if you don't have an economics background there's always going to be something missing in your analysis and your abilities in the international arena. I was granted permission at my undergrad university to take classes, in my senior year, at their diplomacy grad school. Its top twenty. My professors, who were former high ranking foreign service officers and ambassadors, while chiding me for not going to their school, wrote my recommendations for grad school and unanimously said, "Go to SAIS."

 

I'm not dissing SAIS at all. Not sure why you got that impression. 

[soaps]

I was talking about the dual MBA/MIA recipients, for which there are quite a few. I was just using the attorney as an example that they don't distinguish between just MIA recipients and the ones that received dual degrees.  I also like to add that I go to SIPA, and am not making this up. 

 

Sorry, I misread your post (it's late). I didn't see the dual MIA/MBA part which is why I was confused you were talking about attorneys and banks. I trust you're at SIPA and know what you're talking about. It'd be interesting to know whether the MSFS includes dual-degree students in their private sector placements as well since they don't specify anything about it.

 

By the way, not to derail the SAIS thread, but there don't seem to be nearly as many dual JD/MIA students at SIPA. What has been your experience? It's something I've considered trying for in my first year if I go.

Edited March 20, 2013 by soapwater

[riverguide]

I'm not dissing SAIS at all. Not sure why you got that impression. 

 

I didn't get that impression. I think Georgetown is harder to get into than SAIS. SAIS has always been my first choice.

Edited March 20, 2013 by riverguide

[riverguide]

Money isn't everything. Many public service careers lead to more enriching/interesting lives and lifestyles. Both of them had families and were very happy people, and both miserable in their prior career choices. And interestingly enough, their boss (the DCM) went into the FS straight from a state school. This is one reason (among many others) I love the Foreign Service. Life and the satisfaction you take from it aren't a stupid prestige calculus.

 

[JMO]

Sorry, I got confused (it's late). I didn't see the dual MIA/MBA part. I trust you're at SIPA and know what you're talking about. It'd be interesting to know whether the MSFS includes dual-degree students in their private sector placements as well since they don't specify anything about it.

 

By the way, not to derail the SAIS thread, but there don't seem to be nearly as many dual JD/MIA students at SIPA. What has been your experience? It's something I've considered trying for in my first year if I go.

 

What do you mean by trying for.  I think you have to get into the law school and for that you need to take the LSAT.  Getting into Columbia Law is way more competitive than getting into SIPA.  MBA/MIA is more logical as, law is already three years and you can't really use your MIA once you graduate law school. For an MBA, the MIA can teach you important skills, especially certain economics courses taught at SIPA as well was learning about emerging markets and risk analysis.  Also, if you want to do dual MBA/MIA, you also will have to get into the MBA prgram, which, again, is more competitive than SIPA.  

[soaps]

What do you mean by trying for.  I think you have to get into the law school and for that you need to take the LSAT.  Getting into Columbia Law is way more competitive than getting into SIPA.  MBA/MIA is more logical as, law is already three years and you can't really use your MIA once you graduate law school. For an MBA, the MIA can teach you important skills, especially certain economics courses taught at SIPA as well was learning about emerging markets and risk analysis.  Also, if you want to do dual MBA/MIA, you also will have to get into the MBA prgram, which, again, is more competitive than SIPA.  

 

... I know about the LSAT, thanks. By "trying for" I meant taking the LSAT and applying to Columbia Law as a dual-degree student. My feeling was that it would basically render the MIA useless, but the fact that it even exists as a category makes me wonder what people are doing/accomplishing with it.

[Revolution]

What do you mean by trying for.  I think you have to get into the law school and for that you need to take the LSAT.  Getting into Columbia Law is way more competitive than getting into SIPA.  MBA/MIA is more logical as, law is already three years and you can't really use your MIA once you graduate law school. For an MBA, the MIA can teach you important skills, especially certain economics courses taught at SIPA as well was learning about emerging markets and risk analysis.  Also, if you want to do dual MBA/MIA, you also will have to get into the MBA prgram, which, again, is more competitive than SIPA.  

 

Have you seen your sipa classmates apply to columbia business during their first year? Were any of them successful? From what i've gathered, being at a policy program does not help one bit when applying to top b-schools precisely because they are so much less selective.

 

I talked to a sipa student who wants to work at an emerging markets hedge fund, and he said the coursework and faculty are excellent, but career services and job placement are a total mess.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Revolution

[ansac111]

Law school does give one a professional credential that is required to practice in the field, unlike an MBA. After all, you don't need an MBA to be in business or to become wealthy. I disagree though that the skills you gain in law school are more substantive or valuable than the skills you pick up in b-school. In addition, your jury example is a bit ridiculous. Vast majority of students from law schools, especially the top ones, end up in private practice. Let's not pretend that most lawyers are doing "noble" work that is somehow more meaningful than MBA grads.

 I hate to have to agree with you but your are right.. Having a background in law myself, I can tell you that  one would struggle hard to find  more pretentious class of people than lawyers (even including bankers) . This quality is ingrained early on in law school, when they are told that practicing law means engaging in scholarly pursuits on par with Aristotelian way of philosophizing, however in reality your are burned out by drafting commercial agreements and taking care of procedural issues...

 

I know its gross generalization but it really annoys me when people exclusively attack MBA types for being greedy and snobbish and seems to regard law as a noble profession in pursuit of liberty and social justice.

[ansac111]

Culturally SFS seems more in-line with what you expect from other GTown students and GTown residents. Georgetown in general is culturally a little disconnected from the rest of DC and physically disconnected on a transportational level (no subway access). The stereotype (which shouldn't necessarily be trusted) is preppy/privileged. SAIS students are thought to be in Baltimore even though they're not. I don't know that they have any particular cultural reputation in DC outside foreign policy circles.

 

@riverguide, GTown may be more foreign service oriented but I think SAIS has the larger foreign service footprint, same with SIPA. SFS is tiny so that shouldn't be surprising. 

@soapwater @riverguide, Thanks guys for that general impression on MSFS and Gtown.  My situation is slightly different because I have got no aid from SAIS and some (20k $) from GTown . therefore even though SAIS was my top choice , I need to seriously look at Gtown now.. 

[ansac111]

It all depends on your career goals. They are different animals. I was accepted into the SFS MAAS program but Georgetown, and I hate to use stereotypes, is more geared towards the Foreign Service. Is that your career goal? State?

No I am an international candidate and more interested in political risk consulting. I know SAIS is more in line with my goals  but do you think ICB concentration of MSFS is sufficiently geared towards pvt sector. I have seen lot of MSFS grads (through random internet search) working in firms like Eurasia group, Kissinger associates et al 

[Revolution]

No I am an international candidate and more interested in political risk consulting. I know SAIS is more in line with my goals  but do you think ICB concentration of MSFS is sufficiently geared towards pvt sector. I have seen lot of MSFS grads (through random internet search) working in firms like Eurasia group, Kissinger associates et al 

 

Any idea which political risk or econ consulting firms hire SAIS students? I'm guessing the usual suspects such as eurasia and roubini? Any others that I'm missing?

[jm08]

To change subjects a little -- I'm curious to hear what SAIS student groups everyone has been thinking about joining, or starting. Does anyone have first-hand information on how fun, useful, demanding, etc. the clubs are?  

[ansac111]

Any idea which political risk or econ consulting firms hire SAIS students? I'm guessing the usual suspects such as eurasia and roubini? Any others that I'm missing?

I think Cohen Group do recruit some as well. Though they  hire  MSFS grads in same number .. so not sure how and where SAIS reap benefit of its "rigorous economic curriculum"

[Revolution]

I think Cohen Group do recruit some as well. Though they  hire  MSFS grads in same number .. so not sure how and where SAIS reap benefit of its "rigorous economic curriculum"

 

I'm starting to wonder whether the whole "rigorous economic curriculum" that SAIS is boasts is a marketing technique used to lure people over, similar to HKS' constant use of the harvard name brand to justify exorbitant tuition and no funding.

 

I recently talked to a second-year MBA at Chicago Booth who entered SAIS around 2005 or 2006. After a year, he found a job as an analyst at a bulge bracket bank and worked there for 3 years before finishing up his SAIS degree. He then started Booth and will be working at a major buyside firm doing credit research. He loved the coursework at SAIS and said he learned a ton there, so the curriculum is certainly challenging. However, he said that career services had much to be desired, and getting a good private sector job coming out was difficult.

[ansac111]

I recently talked to a second-year MBA at Chicago Booth who entered SAIS around 2005 or 2006. After a year, he found a job as an analyst at a bulge bracket bank and worked there for 3 years before finishing up his SAIS degree. He then started Booth and will be working at a major buyside firm doing credit research. He loved the coursework at SAIS and said he learned a ton there, so the curriculum is certainly challenging. However, he said that career services had much to be desired, and getting a good private sector job coming out was difficult.

 

@Revolution one other think which slightly puts me off is that yesterday I spoke to a SAIS grad and he told me that  student body seems to get younger every year. This is not a problem per se but it could be an indication of general change in the application pool. I strongly  believe in a notion that in a grad school you learn as much from your peers and you do from professors and course material.  I don't want to find myself in a situating where I am surrounded by people who are in the process of finding themselves as opposed to people who are really focused and know what they want to achieve in specific terms.

 

I know age and work ex is not a necessity for a mature and focused student body but there is a strong correlation there..  

[Revolution]

@Revolution one other think which slightly puts me off is that yesterday I spoke to a SAIS grad and he told me that  student body seems to get younger every year. This is not a problem per se but it could be an indication of general change in the application pool. I strongly  believe in a notion that in a grad school you learn as much from your peers and you do from professors and course material.  I don't want to find myself in a situating where I am surrounded by people who are in the process of finding themselves as opposed to people who are really focused and know what they want to achieve in specific terms.

 

I know age and work ex is not a necessity for a mature and focused student body but there is a strong correlation there..  

 

 

I share your concerns as well. When I was applying i was a bit surprised at how low the average age at SAIS was. I am also a very strong believer in learning more from your peers than even your professors; it is a crucial part of intellectual and social life at any grad program. Again, I am NOT saying that i won't learn from classmates at SAIS or that there are no incredible people there. I'm asserting that at a broad level, as an older person with years of finance experience as well as having worked in other areas, I am skeptical about the total package that SAIS offers.

 

Business schools have actually gone younger as well, especially HBS and Stanford. And this is one thing that bothers me about mba admissions, but overall the caliber of students at top b-schools is still quite high. I know for a fact that at a top b-school I will be in awe of my classmates' accomplishments, life stories, intellect, and personality.  For me, it would be a 2-year intellectual and social buffett of epic proportions.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Revolution

[intlrlns]

No I am an international candidate and more interested in political risk consulting. I know SAIS is more in line with my goals  but do you think ICB concentration of MSFS is sufficiently geared towards pvt sector. I have seen lot of MSFS grads (through random internet search) working in firms like Eurasia group, Kissinger associates et al 

 

Beware though because a lot of them are US citizens. I've tried my luck with Eurasia Group and they hire internationals that have a lot more experience and can start at the higher positions. it will take a lot of networking to secure a job in the private sector but it's doable if you're smart about it right away.

[Revolution]

It looks like the NY Federal Reserve visits SAIS and does on-campus interviews, along with sipa, columbia business, nyu stern, booth, and harvard grad school. Interesting. Too bad that PIMCO does not recruit at SAIS; given SAIS's strength in macroeconomics and international finance, that's disappointing.

 

http://www.newyorkfed.org/careers/gradcalendar_tab1.html

[ansac111]

It looks like the NY Federal Reserve visits SAIS and does on-campus interviews, along with sipa, columbia business, nyu stern, booth, and harvard grad school. Interesting. Too bad that PIMCO does not recruit at SAIS; given SAIS's strength in macroeconomics and international finance, that's disappointing.

 

http://www.newyorkfed.org/careers/gradcalendar_tab1.html

Good find.. I think that's how SAIS most notable alumni -Timothy Geithner, may have started his journey towards the upper echelons of finance.

[ansac111]

Beware though because a lot of them are US citizens. I've tried my luck with Eurasia Group and they hire internationals that have a lot more experience and can start at the higher positions. it will take a lot of networking to secure a job in the private sector but it's doable if you're smart about it right away.

 Thanks. So  would SAIS be any better for private sector jobs or is it a general limitation for internationals students regardless of  programs? Also, since you have worked extensively in DC, how wold you regard MSFS program? Is it in the same league as SAIS, HKS, WWS?

[riverguide]

 I hate to have to agree with you but your are right.. Having a background in law myself, I can tell you that  one would struggle hard to find  more pretentious class of people than lawyers (even including bankers) . This quality is ingrained early on in law school, when they are told that practicing law means engaging in scholarly pursuits on par with Aristotelian way of philosophizing, however in reality your are burned out by drafting commercial agreements and taking care of procedural issues...

 

I know its gross generalization but it really annoys me when people exclusively attack MBA types for being greedy and snobbish and seems to regard law as a noble profession in pursuit of liberty and social justice.

 

Whoa, there. I believe the attack was the other way around. I was defending the practice from those who would make a similar attack. The practice of law isn't for everyone, especially the thin skinned. Drafting commercial agreements is like watching paint dry to some. Handling homicide defense is another story...

Edited March 20, 2013 by riverguide

[riverguide]

@Revolution one other think which slightly puts me off is that yesterday I spoke to a SAIS grad and he told me that  student body seems to get younger every year. This is not a problem per se but it could be an indication of general change in the application pool. I strongly  believe in a notion that in a grad school you learn as much from your peers and you do from professors and course material.  I don't want to find myself in a situating where I am surrounded by people who are in the process of finding themselves as opposed to people who are really focused and know what they want to achieve in specific terms.

 

I know age and work ex is not a necessity for a mature and focused student body but there is a strong correlation there..  

 

This must be the morning of grand generalizations...I'm sure that no one would ever accuse a mid-career professional who decides return to school of being in the "process of trying to find themselves...," especially one who still hasn't decided which school to attend. Just sayin'...

Edited March 20, 2013 by riverguide

[Denisse]

Not trying to defend ansac111 but I think he meant that because the student body was getting younger the result is that there will clearly be more younger grad students who may be going to grad school because they don't know what else to do. Which is a big concern. I don't think he was referring to mid-career professionals making a switch or going back for more education in their field.

[ansac111]

Not trying to defend ansac111 but I think he meant that because the student body was getting younger the result is that there will clearly be more younger grad students who may be going to grad school because they don't know what else to do. Which is a big concern. I don't think he was referring to mid-career professionals making a switch or going back for more education in their field.

Exactly ! I am not suggesting by any means that younger grad students are not bright enough or shouldn't bother appling to grad school (in fact I regret  not applying earlier myself) all I was saying was that the opportunity cost for a young person is considerably less, whereas if I would have to reorient my career, I need to be completely committed to my decision. At this  stage unfortunately, I cannot afford the luxury of just a good education divorced from market realities... .Hence so much of introspection

[soaps]

 Thanks. So  would SAIS be any better for private sector jobs or is it a general limitation for internationals students regardless of  programs? Also, since you have worked extensively in DC, how wold you regard MSFS program? Is it in the same league as SAIS, HKS, WWS?

 

I don't think SAIS is in the same league as HKS and WWS, nor is SFS. SAIS and SFS both have great reputations in foreign policy circles, but their appeal to the private sector is (in my view) a complete myth that accompanies the "rigorous quant curriculum" marketing strategy that all public policy schools use. Private sector placement will have much more to do with the city you're in, I think, which explains why schools outside DC have a higher median private sector salary while both SAIS and SFS excel in median public sector salaries.