SAIS application for Fall 2013

[dyavrom]

does anyone know if SAIS gives out a stipend for acceptees to come visit them?  i am from cali and have never been to DC, and since im deciding between SAIS and USC, id like to go and check it out if at all possible.  

[Revolution]

does anyone know if SAIS gives out a stipend for acceptees to come visit them?  i am from cali and have never been to DC, and since im deciding between SAIS and USC, id like to go and check it out if at all possible.  

 

Never hurts to ask, but i doubt SAIS will give stipend for the open house.

[AvariciousBanker]

1.) Did anyone play Everquest or other MMORPGs growing up?  (Most financial engineers are nerds and geeks)  Remember how people would get in over their heads fighting orcs and then run to the zone shouting "ORC TRAIN TO ZONE!!!"?  I get the sense that Revolution is going around to different forums (zones) creating troll trains.

2.) SAIS is a great program, and at $80K it is not a terrible deal.

3.) Cause and effect.  People get into HBS because they have things (mostly learned skills) that help their careers, attract women, and give them confidence.  It is NOT the other way around.

4.) Revolution's problems are best addressed DIRECTLY by him rather than by getting an MBA or MPA.

4 1/2.) F*** HBS.  It's a school for people with better selling ability than math skills:

 

 

Apologies to that one math/stats/physics undergrad Harvard MBA who is probably really pissed right now and might know probability theory as well as a quant. But this was worth it if it gets Revolution to stop obsessing about HBS.

 

Back to my underground quant lair where I stare at a computer screen in a darkened room and mutter to myself about Ito Integrals and proving Novikov conditions.  Hopefully before the MBA train to zone starts on me.

 

-------

 

 

Another unique aspect of playing Everquest was trains. Not mechanical locomotives but long parades of monsters chasing a player or group of players. Trains arise from a combination of factors. The first thing required for a train is for a player or group to aggro more monsters than they can handle. Once the monsters start attacking a player they will not stop until either the player is dead or leaves the region by zoning out (crossing a line where the server removes them from the current area and loads them into the next). A monster will aggro on every player that it comes near making the train dangerous not only to the person being chased but to everyone it runs past as well. If a skeleton is chasing Brutus to the zone line and they pass nearby, as soon as Brutus zones out or dies that skeleton, and every other monster they pass on the way, is going to come after you.
 

Imagine if you will a typical zone being camped and farmed. The area is a long series of tunnels and interconnected rooms filled with monsters. At various locations throughout the dungeon there are groups of players in their camp spots killing the things that spawn nearby. Now, Deep in the bowels of this dungeon a group is fighting the most difficult and dangerous enemies when something goes wrong. Maybe the tank dies or the healer disconnects, but whatever happens, suddenly the group is running for the exit in an attempt to avoid death. But they are far, far down in the dungeon and it is such a very long run to the exit. As they flee they run past other monsters who start to chase them and through other player camps which causes those groups to collapse and flee as well bringing yet more monsters behind them. This is a train, and like a train wreck it causes massive amounts of destruction as it careens through the dungeon until everyone in its path is dead or gone.

 

What I have described is not an uncommon occurrence. Players normally shout "Train" or give some other warning to let others know what is coming and give them a chance to get to safety. Trains can also be used by unscrupulous players to intentionally kill others.

 

http://mmoplayer.wikidot.com/everquest

Edited March 17, 2013 by AvariciousBanker

[riverguide]

(1) Has anyone starting looking at housing options, yet? I used the SAIS search engine last night. I'm in the midst of two capstones for my double major but I took some time last night to review some of the options. I would be interested in any advice from existing students. I'd preferably like to be on a direct Metro line to Dupont Circle. Any suggestions? When I worked on the Hill I had a sweet deal on a basement apt in Takoma Park but had to take a bus AND the Metro to my senate office every day. It got old. Parking was impossible on the Hill. How is parking at SAIS? Impossible, I assume?

 

(2) Is anyone looking at DC think tanks for this summer? I sent in an app last night for an analyst position. Several of the analysts and fellows at the TT where I applied are currently attending SAIS. I'm interested in any current-student commentary about the time/ability to work during our first year. The course load looks pretty gruesome.

 

(3) Anyone signing up for self-flagellation with the Micro/Macro combined pre-term? It seems like a great way to free up space for additional electives.

Edited March 17, 2013 by riverguide

[JFactor]

(3) Anyone signing up for self-flagellation with the Micro/Macro combined pre-term? It seems like a great way to free up space for additional electives.

 

If I end up choosing SAIS, I will try to pass the waiver exam for at least one of those in the summer and I'm also wondering if it's feasible to take the exam for one of those cour courses (IR theory class comes to mind) by studying independently for the exam in the summer. Like you, I definitely would like to have more space for electives.

[Revolution]

@AvariciousBanker -- I suppose we each have our own respective roles to play. 

 

Many of these threads have discussed the median salary of SAIS graduates, but has anyone come across job placement rates? Specifically job placement rates of SAIS graduates employed or seeking employment upon graduation?

 

I was unable to find that information in the employment reports for SAIS or HKS. I've made a pro/con Excel sheet for both programs to determine where I want to attend and that is a pretty critical statistic. 

 

Raises a mini-red flag on why schools are not more transparent with this information. 

 

 

I'm gonna try to talk to career services this week and get more info on this since career placement is my primary concern. I am also interested to hear about whether first-year SAIS students had success in applying to top business schools.

[dyavrom]

not for SAIS, but the Elliott School has some VERY comprehensive date on career placement, length, work experience and salaries.

 

here is the link to the pdf files.  im not from DC, so im not sure how well it will apply to SAIS, but it seems like they would be relatively comparable considering that SAIS has a better rep than Elliott.  

 

http://elliott.gwu.edu/gscd/data/index.cfm

[Revolution]

not for SAIS, but the Elliott School has some VERY comprehensive date on career placement, length, work experience and salaries.

 

here is the link to the pdf files.  im not from DC, so im not sure how well it will apply to SAIS, but it seems like they would be relatively comparable considering that SAIS has a better rep than Elliott.  

 

http://elliott.gwu.edu/gscd/data/index.cfm

 

Thanks for the link. Interesting stuff.

 

I'm going to assume the average range is the middle 80%. Even for financial services/trade, the average salary is a meager 50-60K. Holy cow. Are these people like getting jobs as bank tellers at the local bank of america branch?

[dyavrom]

yeah its pretty paltry stuff.  you can always google "company name + glassdoor + salary" and see what the avg salaries are for the company you are interested in.  ive been doing that for all sorts of sectors and nothing really exceeds 70k, and most are in the 55k-65k range.  it is clear in the Elliott report that the ones making the most money (70-80k) are the mid career professionals (MIPP) implying that in our field it is your work experience that makes you the money, not the degree.  im sure the degree gets you in to many places, but the $ doesnt seem to be there.

 

again, im from California trying to research this across the country, so my data is strictly based on these reports, i dont have much personal or anecdotal evidence to prove otherwise.  

[Revolution]

According to this page, SAIS median public sector salary is $61K while private sector is only $4k higher, at $65K!

 

http://www.sais-jhu.edu/career-services/employment-outcomes

 

If you look at this page, it shows the companies that hired SAIS students.

 

http://www.sais-jhu.edu/career-services/employment-outcomes

 

Some of them are very reputable banks and consulting firms, so I'm puzzled as to why the median is so low. My guess is that since most SAIS students don't have private sector experience, they're being recruited at the analyst level and getting paid what someone straight out of college would be making. This make me wonder then what the salary would be like for an older person with actual private sector experience, particularly in finance. Would this person be able to get into one of these firms as an associate or a senior analyst, making around $90-110K? These are questions I need to ask career services this week.

[dyavrom]

According to this page, SAIS median public sector salary is $61K while private sector is only $4k higher, at $65K!

 

http://www.sais-jhu.edu/career-services/employment-outcomes

 

If you look at this page, it shows the companies that hired SAIS students.

 

http://www.sais-jhu.edu/career-services/employment-outcomes

 

Some of them are very reputable banks and consulting firms, so I'm puzzled as to why the median is so low. My guess is that since most SAIS students don't have private sector experience, they're being recruited at the analyst level and getting paid what someone straight out of college would be making. This make me wonder then what the salary would be like for an older person with actual private sector experience, particularly in finance. Would this person be able to get into one of these firms as an associate or a senior analyst, making around $90-110K? These are questions I need to ask career services this week.

 

 

Glassdoor is an excellent resource, although I have "heard" that they have changed their business model to generate new revenue by allowing companies (for a fee) the ability to "edit" or "respond to" negative anonymous postings. A comparison has been made that glassdoor is going the route of yelp. 

 

What part of CA are you in? I'm in SF at the moment; I was passingly curious how many West coast people would end up at SAIS or HKS. 

 

I'm trying to track down information on salary growth rates 3-5-10 years out. We don't discuss it much, but to keep things into perspective your earning power will increase over time -- and in some cases dramatically. Something to "chew" on as we all frantically calculate our monthly loan payments.

 

@dyavrom - what type of work are you looking to continue doing or move into?

 

heycool, im in the SF area, east bay ish..  personally, im trying to decide on USC which will put me at 60k in debt vs SAIS at 120k.  ideally, I will go into intl development, multilaterally or private but at the same time I am just as open to doing something outside of my interests if it pays significantly better.  Prior to this my work exp was in photojournalism, so the salary question out of school is a big one for me.  how about yourself, what are you interested in?

 

i think looking at the growth rate is a huge factor in deciding where to go and some thing that goes ignored here.  let m know if you find anything worthwhile.  I'm planning to talk to various SAIS alum via linkedin and see what they have to say.  i also started a thread on what peoples salary expectations are both now and in 5 years, hoping it'll give a decent forecast for what we can expect to make.  most of my friends and family are saying i'm looking wayyyy too into this stuff, so im glad there are others whom i can relate with haha.  

 

 

 

According to this page, SAIS median public sector salary is $61K while private sector is only $4k higher, at $65K!

 

http://www.sais-jhu.edu/career-services/employment-outcomes

 

If you look at this page, it shows the companies that hired SAIS students.

 

http://www.sais-jhu.edu/career-services/employment-outcomes

 

Some of them are very reputable banks and consulting firms, so I'm puzzled as to why the median is so low. My guess is that since most SAIS students don't have private sector experience, they're being recruited at the analyst level and getting paid what someone straight out of college would be making. This make me wonder then what the salary would be like for an older person with actual private sector experience, particularly in finance. Would this person be able to get into one of these firms as an associate or a senior analyst, making around $90-110K? These are questions I need to ask career services this week.

something interesting that I haven't been able to understand is that for the USC public policy program, the median salary for private is $81,000

 

and like I mentioned before, if you look at the Elliott numbers for MIPP (mid career professionals) they are averaging around 70-80k.  Based off of that, and the understanding that more work exp = more money, I think 90k is within reach (assuming private sector).  again though, my experience is limited and I think your best bet is to speak with other SAIS alum that have gone your route.   

 

edit: I just checked their website and it seems they have revamped their site and removed that info.

Edited March 17, 2013 by dyavrom

[flyingjellyfish]

Also from California here

[123seekay123]

I am a little worried that I don't have my career goals spelled out as clearly as some other people (if you couldn't tell from the rambling nature of the above paragraph), but I do have a general direction I want to go in and figure I'll have a much clearer picture of what I want to do after a year of grad school. My meandering approach to life has served me well thus far

I'm the same way, honestly. I have ideas what I'd like or be interested in, but I hope that whichever school I go to points me in the right direction. Currently am interested in human rights, but I don't have any work experience in the field. 

 

(just waiting for Revolution to point to me as someone not worth studying with...I may not have the same experiences as others, but I've worked in journalism, and speak several obscure languages). 

[123seekay123]

Riverguide, if we both end up at SAIS we'll have to trade crazy living abroad stories, although yours put mine to shame!

Well, all results are in save Syracuse aid info, and here are my initial thoughts:  I've all but ruled out G-town, unfortunately, since I feel like it doesn't offer anything SAIS doesn't and will cost me about $25,000 more. Seems like a class program, but I don't think its gonna work out. I think I've mostly ruled out Syracuse as well, barring some kind of miracle offer, since while good I don't think its in the same class as the others. That leaves SAIS, Fletcher, and Chicago. SAIS is $20,000 more than Fletcher, but I also like it much more. Being in Bologna, more rigorous quant training (I'm not a quant guy, so the idea that someone is going to sit me down and force me to eat my vegetables is attractive to me), and the ability to master another language rank it higher in my book. But Fletcher has the sweet consortium with HKS and MIT, and I would walk out with an extra 20 grand in my pocket. And really, I think they're basically a wash in terms of career placement. 

Let me know what your thoughts on SAIS Bologna versus Fletcher! Those are my choices right now. I'm tempted by SAIS, but I got some money from Fletcher. 

[dyavrom]

I'm the same way, honestly. I have ideas what I'd like or be interested in, but I hope that whichever school I go to points me in the right direction. Currently am interested in human rights, but I don't have any work experience in the field. 

 

(just waiting for Revolution to point to me as someone not worth studying with...I may not have the same experiences as others, but I've worked in journalism, and speak several obscure languages). 

 i worked in journalism as well! as a photographer though...what were your experiences?

 

and SEVERAL obscure languages?  please elaborate haha

[rhodeislander]

    (2) Is anyone looking at DC think tanks for this summer? I sent in an app last night for an analyst position. Several of the analysts and fellows at the TT where I applied are currently attending SAIS. I'm interested in any current-student commentary about the time/ability to work during our first year. The course load looks pretty gruesome.

    (3) Anyone signing up for self-flagellation with the Micro/Macro combined pre-term? It seems like a great way to free up space for additional electives

It seems like most SAIS students intern during the year, judging by their career services website. The million (or at least, several thousand) dollar question is...are the internships paid? If they are, that would be great and would be huge for my finances. If not, excuse my utter ignorance of how things work in DC. Is anyone able to chime in on this?

If I do SAIS I'll likely be doing the pre-term, both for economics (since I have zero economics training and have to learn it anyway), and maybe Italian, since I'm a big believer in being able to speak the language of wherever you are living and can't stand it when people don't bother at least trying to learn. Its a pet peeve of mine.

 

 

I'm the same way, honestly. I have ideas what I'd like or be interested in, but I hope that whichever school I go to points me in the right direction. Currently am interested in human rights, but I don't have any work experience in the field. 

 

(just waiting for Revolution to point to me as someone not worth studying with...I may not have the same experiences as others, but I've worked in journalism, and speak several obscure languages). 

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there will be people out there who tell us we're doing it wrong, and how dare we even THINK about grad school without a specific career in mind, but I already have a few things in mind and am looking forward to this as a way of figuring out where my true passion lies, then developing that passion. Actually, feel free to shoot me a pm sometime (or I will when I get a chance), since we're both in the same place and deciding between the same schools, I'd be happy to exchange notes.

And I too am very interested about what obscure languages you speak! I studied some Uyghur last year (which along with my location will immediately out me to any of my acquaintances who may happen to read this in the future, haha), which was so obscure that none of the schools I applied to had it as an option to check off. Esperanto, yes. Uyghur, no.

On the unrelated issue of private-sector salaries, one curious thing I noticed is that both Georgetown's and Fletcher's are significantly higher, in the mid-80s. I'm curious as to why that is, since I consider the three basically the same when it comes to student body makeup and post-grad employment.

[dyavrom]

On the unrelated issue of private-sector salaries, one curious thing I noticed is that both Georgetown's and Fletcher's are significantly higher, in the mid-80s. I'm curious as to why that is, since I consider the three basically the same when it comes to student body makeup and post-grad employment.

my only idea is end of year bonuses that the SAIS report does not take into account for.  I read somewhere they are normally in the 10k range for the MBB consultants.  besides that i have no clue. 

[Revolution]

my only idea is end of year bonuses that the SAIS report does not take into account for.  I read somewhere they are normally in the 10k range for the MBB consultants.  besides that i have no clue. 

 

If the MBB position is at the analyst level, $10K seems right. For associates (this is post-mba or phd usually) the annual bonus is around $30K. My best friend who is graduating from a top b-school this year will be making roughly $200K all-in next year as a MBB consultant.

[Goose1459]

There is a Career Services chat this morning (the 18th) between 11:00 a.m. - 12:00 p.m. EST. I received an email about it.

[ridofme]

As to why SAIS private sector salaries are lower:

   

For the the Master of Arts graduates of 2011 (non-dual degree), median full-time salaries for each sector were as follows:

 

(emphasis mine)

 

I wouldn't be surprised if other schools include those getting JDs/MBAs in their data to pad the numbers. Certainly SAIS is the only school that I've noticed explicitly state that they exclude dual degree students from their employment statistics.

[rhodeislander]

As to why SAIS private sector salaries are lower:

   

 

(emphasis mine)

 

I wouldn't be surprised if other schools include those getting JDs/MBAs in their data to pad the numbers. Certainly SAIS is the only school that I've noticed explicitly state that they exclude dual degree students from their employment statistics.

Yep, I bet that's it. If it is, kudos to them for being honest!

[riverguide]

It seems like most SAIS students intern during the year, judging by their career services website. The million (or at least, several thousand) dollar question is...are the internships paid? If they are, that would be great and would be huge for my finances. If not, excuse my utter ignorance of how things work in DC. Is anyone able to chime in on this?

 

 

I specifically ran a search for paid positions and discovered that other SAIS attendees are working there as well in positions above my suggested pay grade. For those with fluency in strategic languages, there are numerous paid positions available to translate, summarize and analyze foreign open source media. Part of the job description involved supervising interns, which was a component in my last job in the Senate. It also required TV appearances which will be difficult because its hard for me to avoid sticking a pencil in my ear and using four letter words during live interviews...note to self....

[intlrlns]

Foreign policy think tanks like CSIS, CFR, Brookings and the likes offer unpaid internships only. Many SAISers take them as an alternative to having nothing at all and crowd out the poor undergrads. 
It can get hectic with work and such but if you manage your time well it can be done. Not to mention that it will in some way contribute to your educational experience as well. 

[Goose1459]

Did anyone participate in the Career Services talk this morning?

 

I missed it because a SAIS second year contacted me and wanted to chat. Very nice gesture...

[nason]

Did anyone participate in the Career Services talk this morning?

 

I missed it because a SAIS second year contacted me and wanted to chat. Very nice gesture...

 

Yep - they discussed employment rates...93% for class of 2012 6 months after graduation.  Talked a lot about career classes and workshops and that they have 17 'treks' around the globe to meet with potential employers.  As has been talked about extensively here, there was mention that the big 3 consulting firms don't really recruit on campus, but a good number of graduates find work in more niche consulting companies.  If I heard it right, 47% of 2012 class reported a job in the private sector, 19% non-profit, 18% public, 12% in intl organizations like EU, UN, World Bank, etc.

 

There was some talk about internship opportunities as well -- students are discouraged from interning first semester regardless of campus.  After that, Bologna is more of an "academic city" so few have internships off campus, but some DC students do find outside work.

 

Hope that helps.