Grad school for the directionless.

[anonak]

So here's the deal. I'm almost 30, I make no money, and I'm kind of miserable at my job. I had no clue what I wanted to do with my life when I graduated high school, I had no idea when I graduated college, and I still have no idea. I'm thinking Grad School - probably a terrible idea, right?

I graduated Summa Cum Laude with a BA in Psychology from a not very highly ranked liberal arts college (higher than 50, lower than 100). I picked Psychology because I needed a major and I liked the classes, but I decided quickly that I didn't want to be a therapist. I was told that it didn't really matter what I majored in, as long as I had a degree, and I actually believed it.

So, I graduated jobless, directionless, and penniless, so I went back to a summer job as a teller so that I could pay my student loans. Over 7 years (and 4 low level positions) later, I am still in at the bank, now as a pseudo administrative assistant (who is bored out her mind most days). 

I'm not one of those people who has to make a ton of money to feel successful, but I want to be able to live my life without fear of being able to pay my rent. I'm single, so I have to support myself for the immediate future. I want to be able to travel.

So after all that, what is my question? Well, I'll take any advice that anyone can offer. I still don't know what I want to do with life, but I'm starting to think that I will never figure it out. I cannot really afford to do a ton of undergraduate prereqs unless I get a better job. I'm willing to go into some debt for grad school, but not so much that I will be paying it off for decades. 

 

I was thinking of going for an MBA - not because I have a great love of business, but because it seems like it could be useful.  I considered a MLIS, but just about everything I have read says that it is not a great field to get into right now.  Honestly, I'm thinking of spending the next year researching grad school options just so I can find something that might eventually get me somewhere.

 

 

[Usmivka]

I had no idea when I graduated college, and I still have no idea. I'm thinking Grad School - probably a terrible idea, right?

Yes, probably. It isn't exactly a great place to "find" yourself, even the super-motivated feel like crap and question why they made the mistake of starting school again (for some portion of their time). And schools won't accept you with that attitude, unless you lie to them about where you are coming from (not an awesome start). And grad school will not make you feel more secure about rent, especially if you get forced down the same paths since you can't afford to go back and take different classes (not a lot of full stipends in the humanities, unless you are really motivated and lucky with fellowships). I would agree that MLIS is not a great move for easy employment, and it is super competitive to get in regardless. And I don't think an MBA fits your ideas about not being in debt the rest of your life.

 

So I'm going to suggest something completely different, that I think could actually be awesome for you:

Join the Peace Corps, Americorps, or Teach for America (your resume is basically perfect for that last).

 

You'd have your expenses covered for a couple years at least, you'd get to travel, you'll meet interesting people. You'll have an awesome CV blurb and the experience to get involved in NGOs or NPOs, and you might even find a new calling in something hugely worthwhile, like education, international development, or public health.

 

Many of the volunteers in all the programs are 30+, contrary to popular perception, and the older ones often have higher retention and job satisfaction. With TFA, you'd have a masters in education when you came out to boot, so it is grad school of a different sort.

 

Just my two cents though, maybe you'll go to grad school right now and it will be the best thing ever.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Usmivka

[anonak]

Yes, probably. It isn't exactly a great place to "find" yourself, even the super-motivated feel like crap and question why they made the mistake of starting school again (for some portion of their time). And schools won't accept you with that attitude, unless you lie to them about where you are coming from (not an awesome start). And grad school will not make you feel more secure about rent, especially if you get forced down the same paths since you can't afford to go back and take different classes (not a lot of full stipends in the humanities, unless you are really motivated and lucky with fellowships). I would agree that MLIS is not a great move for easy employment, and it is super competitive to get in regardless. And I don't think an MBA fits your ideas about not being in debt the rest of your life.

 

So I'm going to suggest something completely different, that I think could actually be awesome for you:

Join the Peace Corps, Americorps, or Teach for America (your resume is basically perfect for that last).

 

You'd have your expenses covered for a couple years at least, you'd get to travel, you'll meet interesting people. You'll have an awesome CV blurb and the experience to get involved in NGOs or NPOs, and you might even find a new calling in something hugely worthwhile, like education, international development, or public health.

 

Many of the volunteers in all the programs are 30+, contrary to popular perception, and the older ones often have higher retention and job satisfaction. With TFA, you'd have a masters in education when you came out to boot, so it is grad school of a different sort.  

 

Just my two cents though, maybe you'll go to grad school right now and it will be the best thing ever.

 

No, I think that you are probably right about grad school for me, right now at least.  School was always something that I was always really good at, so I think that since I am currently kind of lost, my mind immediately goes back there.  It's funny that you mention Peace Corps/AmeriCorps/TFA - The PeaceCorps are basically my dream job, but unfortunately, I wouldn't qualify due to medical issues.  I actually applied to an AmeriCorps program last year and was not selected for it (I think I managed to choose one of the more popular ones).  

 

You know what, though?  Just thinking about these programs made me light up in a way that researching graduate programs never did.  

[Usmivka]

I'd say it's time for another round of apps then, and maybe a nice doctor who will help you apply for a medical waiver if you're applying to go somewhere you can get care if needed. All the best. The health care system in Eastern Europe is just fine if you've ever been interested in spending some time in Bulgaria or Romania...

 

Edit: Another thought--there are a limited number of Fulbright fellowships available to teach English in a foreign country. Pick a place that is far enough off the beaten trail (not Western Europe or India) and you might be an ideal candidate.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Usmivka

[mf2232]

actually, if you think you might enjoy teaching english abroad, you should come to china. once you are on the ground, finding work as a teacher is super easy (and can be quite lucrative) and after you have a teaching job, you will still have time to follow other professional pursuits (ive seen people advance very quickly in fields like hospitality, marketing, writing, business, design, tourism, etc that they wouldnt have had the qualifications/opportunity to pursue had they stayed in the states. cost of living is cheaper, and you can very cheaply explore places both within china and southeast asia. also, once you come back to the states you have "china experience" which counts for something on resumes. something to think about...

[languages-etc]

Some good suggestions here - I also recommend teaching English abroad, which can be exciting and a great adventure (but only if you like to experience new cultures, foods and places.) 

 

Have you considered going to night school to obtain a professional certification? You wouldn't have to go too much into debt if you are working at the same time. Nurse, paramedic/EMT and X-Ray technician are jobs that come to mind but there are lots of others too. Of course, this doesn't include the "travel" part that you mentioned, but it will get you out of the bank and into a more interesting career. 

 

Like you, I'm returning to school a little later than other grad students. Please don't think 30 is old - you are still young. You have so much time ahead of you, and from what you've said you're smart (summa cum laude) and responsible (holding down a job for 7 years). So please don't be afraid to try something new if you don't like your present circumstances. 

[iowaguy]

+1 on the idea of living abroad.  I spent a year in Mexico and 2 months in Venezuela (plus travel to several other countries in between).  That international experience helped clarify my values/goals in life more than any other experience I have ever had...

 

IMHO grad school is a terrible place to "find yourself" (I have a M.S., but knew what I wanted to do before applying to the program).  Ideally you "find yourself", then apply to a grad program that will help you reach your goals in life...  Best of luck!!!

[chron]

anonak, I am in much the same situation as you, I have been unemployed or underemployed for practically the entire time after graduation and this is, on the surface, why I'm applying to go to grad school. It's not really that I'm particularly interested in academia. I'm also a "don't know what I want to do" person - actually, deep down I do have an idea of what I want in life, but it's not something that most people can understand, and I'll leave it at that.

 

I don't really agree with the things Usmivka said - I know in practice, you shouldn't show this "attitude" to grad schools, but this is something about schools and employers for that matter that I really don't agree with. If I go to grad school, pass all the courses, fulfill my requirements, and get a degree, why should it matter whether I have a "direction" or not or whether or not I am super motivated and passionate about the field? If I'm capable of completing a degree, I deserve it. One thing most people don't understand (and I'm not saying that's necessarily the case with anonak) is that for some people it's mentally difficult to feel enjoyment or a lot of emotion towards things.

 

Also, why should anonak be blamed for potentially lying - do you really think all those other applicants and grad students knew exactly what they wanted to do since they were a little kid and are as devoted to their field as they claim in their personal statements? If I was an employer, I would want to hire anonak for her humility and honesty, I like her attitude more the bragging, self-promoting type of personality this society rewards.

 

For me, I am applying to grad school even though I realize I'm taking a risk. You may say you're supposed to "find yourself" then go to grad school, but isn't that the case too when you go for a career in the workforce? I figure the alternative would be to go back to my undergrad and start another Bachelor's all over again, but I feel that would be an even bigger risk in terms of admission as well as completing up to 4 years again vs. a 2 year Master's and the mental impact of knowing you're going backwards not forwards. If I had to do it all over again, I probably wouldn't have gone into my field, but the kind of things that I like relatively more in my field are more research based. So I'm taking a bet that I can find something fulfilling enough in grad school.

 

I'm not worried about going to grad school, I'm pretty confident I can do it. I'm just worried about whether or not I can get in - I suspect I appear as a weak candidate and I don't know if I can convince a graduate school to admit me. Another advantage of going back to school is that there are counsellors to talk to. I don't expect it to be of much help, but that's a major goal of mines if I got into grad school. As for doing things like going into the Peace Corps, for one thing not everyone is from the US, but even if I did something like that, there will be the question of "then what?" after I complete my service with them.

 

In summary, I'm aware there is a risk but I don't think going to grad school is a bad idea even if you're not someone that really knows what you want to do. As long as you think there are some areas in your field that you can tolerate. I just think the risk of not going may be worse and I would be questioning myself "why didn't I give grad school a chance?" in the future if I didn't apply now. So I'm going to give it a chance, and hope it works out for me.

[mf2232]

eh, but is it worth the debt? i think that's usually the bigger issue. and even if you enter into a funded program, the amount of time the program requires can eat up any and all free time, leaving you in an even deeper funk. i mean, i hate the fallacy that you have to love love love your field with all your soul. i mean, thats stupid. if you have such blind love for your field of study, how are you going to be able to engage with it critically? however, i do think you need to be committed - for your own sake. otherwise, you will lose time and money that could have been better spent developing a new career/traveling/etc. 

[iowaguy]

For me, I am applying to grad school even though I realize I'm taking a risk. You may say you're supposed to "find yourself" then go to grad school.....So I'm taking a bet that I can find something fulfilling enough in grad school.

 

Better to "find yourself" on someone else's dime than by taking out student loan debt (like the OP suggested) and then possibly not like where you end up.  Then, you would have some serious cash flow issues (to pay your loan payments) and possibly still not like what you're doing.  With loan payments, your career choices are even more limited since you can't take just any old (lower-paying) job.

 

The advantage of "finding yourself" before going to grad school is that it can help you achieve your career/life goals.  I personally switched fields from Engineering (which I didn't like and basically went into to please my parents, big mistake in hindsight) into the Environmental Sciences via a Master's Program.  In the years since my M.S. I have discovered that I enjoy this field so much that I now want to pursue a PhD.

 

Sure you might be able to find something fulfilling in grad school, but you could probably find that in almost any life path if you are that ambivalent about your goals in career/life.  Like the old saying goes:  if you don't know where you're headed, any road will take you there...

[Usmivka]

[A] I don't really agree with the things Usmivka said - I know in practice, you shouldn't show this "attitude" to grad schools, but this is something about schools and employers for that matter that I really don't agree with. If I go to grad school, pass all the courses, fulfill my requirements, and get a degree, why should it matter whether I have a "direction" or not or whether or not I am super motivated and passionate about the field? If I'm capable of completing a degree, I deserve it....

 

Also, why should anonak be blamed for potentially lying - do you really think all those other applicants and grad students knew exactly what they wanted to do since they were a little kid and are as devoted to their field as they claim in their personal statements? If I was an employer, I would want to hire anonak for her humility and honesty, I like her attitude more the bragging, self-promoting type of personality this society rewards.

 

[C].... As for doing things like going into the Peace Corps, for one thing not everyone is from the US, but even if I did something like that, there will be the question of "then what?" after I complete my service with them.

I'll address these point by point from where I'm coming from:

 

A) Getting a PhD requires focused research--pretty hard to do successfully without motivation or direction. Courses are a component, but not the most important. I think the attitude you are describing is a lot more prevalent in undergrad degrees now, and perhaps some professional programs and skill based masters degrees, and to be fair, I just assumed we were talking about a PhD. For better or worse, it is not the attitude that admissions committees (including faculty, admins, and your potential peers--who often get some say in who they want to see admitted) are generally looking for. Why would any of the above want to work with someone who evidences what could easily be construed as apathy and entitlement?

 

B ) Arguably the singular requirement of academia is honesty. If you can't even be honest about why you are there, why should anyone expect you to be ethical in your research practices? So yes, someone who lies should be "blamed" for their actions and grad school is a poor choice for them. If you are ambivalent, don't lie about it. You can still show commitment to a project/program/job even if you have reservations about whether it is the ideal course forward--but if you can't even see how it might help you, why waste the time that you could be doing something enjoyable?

 

This is totally separate from a question of whether it is worth time and effort to get a slip of paper just for the sake of the credential, and whether someone can or should know exactly what they want to do, which is what you seem to connect it to. I don't think anyone hear would suggest that they know 100% what they will do and how it will turn out 5 years in the future, but having solid interests and enthusiasm sure makes it more likely that you'll put out good work and graduate in a timely manner, both of which are important considerations for grad programs. Even the ones you pay your way for are generally "losing" money on you relative to the cost of your education. This really gets back to the point you brought up in A--admissions are limited, and I'd argue that ability is not sufficient to "deserve" (a loaded phrase that I dislike) anything relative to an applicant that is more enthusiastic/committed and also has the ability to contribute positively to their program.

 

C) There are NGOs and NPOs looking for enthusiastic and smart people to help them worldwide. And the OPer is clearly from the US, so this is a red herring regardless.The OPer clearly is excited about such jobs, which include the travel and learning/thinking that they specified as appealing. The "then what" is that these positions provide the experience and CV blurbs to do things in related fields that continue to value and reward the same activities, say, working for the Gates Foundation. Or that they provide some direction to future grad school so that instead of retreading old ground in a field you dislike, you are using your time productively towards a goal in something that you can get some more fulfillment out of than checking off the to do list.

 

Finally, I'd point out that I didn't suggest anything the necessity of "finding yourself" prior to grad school or work, just that grad school wasn't the ideal place to make this happen. The same was true of the OPers teller job, and lots of other situations. The reason I used quotation marks is that it is clearly a cliched, oversimplifying phrase.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Usmivka

[PhDhopeful2013]

No, I think that you are probably right about grad school for me, right now at least.  School was always something that I was always really good at, so I think that since I am currently kind of lost, my mind immediately goes back there.  It's funny that you mention Peace Corps/AmeriCorps/TFA - The PeaceCorps are basically my dream job, but unfortunately, I wouldn't qualify due to medical issues.  I actually applied to an AmeriCorps program last year and was not selected for it (I think I managed to choose one of the more popular ones).  

 

You know what, though?  Just thinking about these programs made me light up in a way that researching graduate programs never did.  

 

SInce you have a lot of work experience, another suggestion would be to look for admin jobs at nearby universities.  Mostly all colleges and universities offer tuition benefits for staff.  So you could take a few classes through the benefit and see if being back in the classroom is envigorating for you.  Since your employer (the college/university) is paying for it, you won't have to worry about finances.  Also, working at a college or university can give you some other great service and travel opportunities.  If you work there, you could get involved with some service groups or even volunteer to chaperone some student trips. Even if your job is on the admin side, you'd get exposure to academia and see if it would be a good fit.  I'd imagine working at a college would be more interesting than at a bank (only b/c you said you're bored there) at least while you figure out your next step,  I'd echo the advice on here that going to grad school just to get out of an unfullfilling job and to "find yourself" is prob not the best way to go, financially or otherwise... Good Luck!!

[Usmivka]

SInce you have a lot of work experience, another suggestion would be to look for admin jobs at nearby universities.  Mostly all colleges and universities offer tuition benefits for staff.  So you could take a few classes through the benefit and see if being back in the classroom is envigorating for you.  Since your employer (the college/university) is paying for it, you won't have to worry about finances.  Also, working at a college or university can give you some other great service and travel opportunities.  If you work there, you could get involved with some service groups or even volunteer to chaperone some student trips. Even if your job is on the admin side, you'd get exposure to academia and see if it would be a good fit.  I'd imagine working at a college would be more interesting than at a bank (only b/c you said you're bored there) at least while you figure out your next step,  I'd echo the advice on here that going to grad school just to get out of an unfullfilling job and to "find yourself" is prob not the best way to go, financially or otherwise... Good Luck!!

This is good advice--I went through part of my undergrad with an employee tuition exemption. I was limited in how many credits I could take at a time, but if time is no object this can be a great way to go.

[Immy]

I know the feeling. While I'm not quite 30, I'll be 26 in March. I too received my B.A. in psychology (also minored in biology and writing), and struggled to find a job the year after college. I then became a mental health case manager, which I did for 2 years, and completely sucked the desire to go to grad school for psychology right out of me. I wanted more research experience, so I am now a research assistant at a large research center. 

 

There is not a job market for those with a B.A. in psychology, and the jobs you can find for it are low paying.

 

I plan on going to grad school for public health. I've taken a grad class in it and did well. I love heath, but as I've realized NOT mental health.

 

If you do want to go to grad school, you need to figure out what you would want a degree in first. 

[EdYouKateOr]

Sorry tone so late to this dance, but I just had a similar convo with a family member. If you like to travel, get into the travel/hospitality industry. Hotels, resorts, cruise lines, rental car agencies, restaurants, etc,.. All have great perks.

[EdYouKateOr]

Found this online: If this is the case, going to grad school is among the last things you should do. A graduate education can be an invaluable tool to help you accomplish what you want to do with your life, but it will not resolve any confusion or uncertainty about your career or life's purpose. The first and most important thing to do is to figure out what you do want to do. Luckily, you're in a good place to start that exploration for nonprofit and public service careers. Idealist.org offers many resources to help you determine what it is that you enjoy, are passionate about, and do well. Some great ways to begin the process of self-discovery include:

[HigherEd2013]

I agree with what everyone is saying. I was lucky that I got my job because it really helped shape what I want to do. In my case, I don't pretend to know everything I want to do and accomplish in the next 40 years of my life. I don't think you have to know everything. You just have to have enough of a reason to apply. My advice would be to try something completely different, then if you think you are ready for grad school, make a list!

 

I chose to apply to grad school because:

 

1. I've always been interested in helping people my whole life; I just didn't know where I fit until I tried different things.

 

2. After working for two years after undergrad + several experiences in undergrad (I know not a lot, but at least that's something), I learned that I wanted to continue working in my field for a very long time.

 

3. I spoke to many people at different levels, and they all told me I would need a master's degree to get the types of jobs I wanted. "EVERYONE has a master's degree. It's almost like a club."

 

4. I have gained quite a bit of practical knowledge, but limited theoretical knowledge. There are too many problems, and I can't begin to fathom how to solve them.

 

5. I miss learning! I know quite a bit about my specific area, but don't know how my area fits into education as a whole. I try to keep up with what is happening, but there's no way I can devote the kind of time necessary to be an "expert" in the field unless I could be a full-time student for awhile. There's so much I want to discuss/brainstorm with others, but no one around me seems to care as much.

 

6. It's perfect timing for my career. My current job (while fantastic) will end in June. I technically have the choice to get a different job, but then have to quit that (potentially awesome) stable job later or go to school part time later. I just know that if I don't go to grad school now, it would be harder later to leave a stable job, life, and move to a completely different place. People are truly creatures of habit... I could see myself getting comfortable, going to a local school part-time, and never giving myself a chance to try for more challenging/out of the norm things in another area of the country.

 

Ready or not, I feel prepared to take that leap of faith! When you are applying for the right reasons, you'll know. Until then, just take a different leap of faith and try something new:). Good luck!