Offer holders, how do you make your final decision?

[playingivory]

I've decided to base my decision entirely on which school's doctoral regalia looks the coolest.

 

Unfortunately I did not apply to McGill:

 

L-O-L. A novel idea, and I personally would settle for that hat if nothing else. Too funny.

 

I'm not in this position yet, so I'm not sure how practical my advice would be, but this sprung something for me in regard to making final decisions:

 

Hello, everyone! I really need advise on getting financial assistance for campus visits. The DGS at one of the schools that I am going to visit mentioned the financial aid available and redirected me to a very obnoxious administrative assistant to settle all logistics-related matters. The ad assistant gives very rude (no greetings, no sign off)  and unhelpful replies (I asked about possible funding in a similar way that Czech suggested). She simply ignores my questions about "any chance the department can offer a subsidy for my travel expenses" and answers other questions related to the program on my visit...I really don't know how to interpret this!

 

I am personally a bit compulsive when it comes to planning and poor communication is one of my hugest pet peeves. If I am fortunate enough to have choices, a BIG factor for me would be how well graduate advisers and my presumed research adviser(s) communicated with me.

 

There is a really phenomenal program out on the west coast that I visited this week and I wanted to meet with someone who shares my research interests. I emailed him twice, left a message...and finally called the department to verify he wasn't on leave. It really turned me off to the program. I still visited, liked the campus okay, enjoyed the atmosphere and the people I did speak with within the department, but if it came down to it, especially given other variables being similar, I would choose to go elsewhere. Just my two cents!

[TMP]

playingivory-

 

Don't make it a make-or-break deal.  You honestly don't know what the professor's schedule is like- could be abroad or in middle of an intense conference or has a family emergency.  You do want to mention during your conversation that communication is very important to you and you can ask what to expect as an advisee.  You will also want to ask his or her graduate students about his/her responsiveness and how they deal with it.

[annieca]

I thought I had decided and then Maryland decided to accept me. That, coupled with the fact that I have a chance at funding has gotten me going insane. If Maryland gives me a stipend, I'll have to do math, but... I'm leaning towards there. My love of the UK is slowly waning after a few weekends of being surrounded by British people bashing Americans and I'm just ready to go home. (By no means does the opinions of the poeple I was with constitute all British opinions. I was just with some highly opinionated people.)

 

Maryland also has great connections being right outside of DC. (Which makes rent ridiculous!) I could intern in DC and go to school in Maryland which opens up a whole new world of possibilities, especially at the National Archives. It also is great for non-profit and human rights based NGOs where I eventually want to get in. 

 

I'm going to have to weigh that, the idea that it's a 3 year program and not a one year program like in the UK, and a little factor about friendships, transition and cats. But first...I have to get a stipend!

[CageFree]

I am personally a bit compulsive when it comes to planning and poor communication is one of my hugest pet peeves. If I am fortunate enough to have choices, a BIG factor for me would be how well graduate advisers and my presumed research adviser(s) communicated with me.

 

There is a really phenomenal program out on the west coast that I visited this week and I wanted to meet with someone who shares my research interests. I emailed him twice, left a message...and finally called the department to verify he wasn't on leave. It really turned me off to the program. I still visited, liked the campus okay, enjoyed the atmosphere and the people I did speak with within the department, but if it came down to it, especially given other variables being similar, I would choose to go elsewhere. Just my two cents!

 

 

 

playingivory-

 

Don't make it a make-or-break deal.  You honestly don't know what the professor's schedule is like- could be abroad or in middle of an intense conference or has a family emergency.  You do want to mention during your conversation that communication is very important to you and you can ask what to expect as an advisee.  You will also want to ask his or her graduate students about his/her responsiveness and how they deal with it.

 

There's truth in both of these statements.

 

During my application season, I was interested in several programs here in CA.

 

Prog 1. Prof seemed super friendly at first, asked me to drive down for coffee, and when I replied saying I'd love to, I never heard anything again. It was strange. I went over that reply a thousand times wondering why and came up with nothing.

 

Prog 2. The prof. basically said, "I am gone half the year every year for research." What's worse, the email was addressed to someone else but it came to me. 

 

Prog 3. Prof replied back super enthusiastically and asked a bunch of questions. I replied back and heard NOTHING. 

 

I was thinking something was very wrong with my emails... like I was turning everyone off. I got a really bad vibe from #2 so I didn't bother emailing again. I emailed #1 and #3 a few weeks later to ask if they'd gotten my responses.

 

#1 never replied. I didn't apply and to this day I don't know what happened. I didn't apply. $80 savings.

 

As for #2, a friend of mine was an UG at that program and basically confirmed my bad vibe. Another $80 savings.

 

#3 responded very apologetically. Turns out this person was a) on leave and b ) dealing with family stuff. #3 is now my adviser and is absolutely FANTASTIC to work with.

Edited March 9, 2013 by CageFree

[New England Nat]

I drove down and interviewed at a program that seemed super obvious to me and the professors were lovely.  Except there were a bunch of small red flags, but the one that stuck with me was the main interviewer going "oh but we don't have someone who does x subfield".  They did.  Her office was next door.  Yes it was a big department but how bad does communication have to be for you not to know what the woman sitting in the next office does. 

 

And it wasn't tangental to her work.  It was the core of her work.

 

As a consequence I didn't apply.  Savings $75. 

Edited March 9, 2013 by New England Nat

[LeatherElbows]

Communication is pretty important. Like TMP said, there can be reasons for slow responses, but the professor/department are aware they are making an impression with prospective students.

 

One of my admit schools did not respond to two short question emails sent during business hours (to different departments). After a month and a half and a courteous email to the prospective advisor ... no response. I realize this is a pretty extreme case, but it does happen. 

[playingivory]

Wow some of you guys have some real horror stories!

 

I agree with TMP also that writing someone off for communication issues might be extreme as life can get in the way. At the same time, I am a firm believer that we as students "audition" these schools as much as they do us when we apply -- or at least, we have the opportunity to. If we're intelligent enough to presumably begin doctoral studies, we're intelligent enough to compile a list of criteria that we expect a program to meet and thus base any future decisions off of given the opportunity of multiple offers..... and for me, communication is a darn important criterion! That's all I was realy getting at

[CrazyCatLady80]

I thought I had decided and then Maryland decided to accept me. That, coupled with the fact that I have a chance at funding has gotten me going insane. If Maryland gives me a stipend, I'll have to do math, but... I'm leaning towards there. My love of the UK is slowly waning after a few weekends of being surrounded by British people bashing Americans and I'm just ready to go home. (By no means does the opinions of the poeple I was with constitute all British opinions. I was just with some highly opinionated people.)

 

Maryland also has great connections being right outside of DC. (Which makes rent ridiculous!) I could intern in DC and go to school in Maryland which opens up a whole new world of possibilities, especially at the National Archives. It also is great for non-profit and human rights based NGOs where I eventually want to get in. 

 

I'm going to have to weigh that, the idea that it's a 3 year program and not a one year program like in the UK, and a little factor about friendships, transition and cats. But first...I have to get a stipend!

 

As a former archivist, I can tell you without a doubt that your best choice is to go to Maryland. Getting a job in the archives field is all about connections, especially at the National Archives. In fact, connections and networking is far more important than the school. I know a lot of archivists that went to so-so programs, but have excellent jobs, because of networking. Only go to the school in the UK if you want to work in the UK. 

[annieca]

@CrazyCatLady80 -

 

Thanks for that advice! It definitely seemed that way when I was working at NMAH last summer that it really was, all about connections. But the funding has to come first! 

 

I had a nightmare last night, and actually woke up and sat up straight in bed, that I didn't get funding from Maryland. Like, I could visualize the email and everything. Hopefully it'll work out okay. I submitted my FAFSA to Maryland a few days ago but it will be interesting to see if FAFSA makes a difference. It certainly didn't in my sister's case.

[CrazyCatLady80]

I know you think funding has to come first, but, in this situation I would say staying in the U.S. is far more important. The vast majority of MA/MLS programs aren't funded. I had to pay for my MLS out of my own pocket via student loans. In fact, I don't think my program even offered funding. I think the rule "only go if they give you funding" applies to PhD programs only. I know they have funded MAs out there, but there aren't that many. I also had to pay for my MA. It is true that I am in a lot of debt. I doubt that I will never be able to buy a house. However, in the end, it is worth it. In my opinion, if you really want it, you will pay just about any price to get it. 

[lafayette]

I know you think funding has to come first, but, in this situation I would say staying in the U.S. is far more important. The vast majority of MA/MLS programs aren't funded. I had to pay for my MLS out of my own pocket via student loans. In fact, I don't think my program even offered funding. I think the rule "only go if they give you funding" applies to PhD programs only. I know they have funded MAs out there, but there aren't that many. I also had to pay for my MA. It is true that I am in a lot of debt. I doubt that I will never be able to buy a house. However, in the end, it is worth it. In my opinion, if you really want it, you will pay just about any price to get it.

I've worked in archives and have friends currently do. I absolutely agree with crazycatlady -- go to school in the US & work the internship connections. I don't know of anyone who received funding for a MLIS (some were lucky to get grants for internship work later). It's a professional degree; the point is that they put you in the position to make money afterward. Although yes, that it's not exactly a lucrative field is problematic ..

[annieca]

Right now I have the choice (in the US) between Maryland or Indiana-Bloomington. Bloomington doesn't have an archives concentration and, no offense to Bloomington itself, I'm not a fan. 

 

Maryland - the program is run through the History Department so it's HiLS and I have been told some MA or HiLS students *do* get TA positions. How many out of this current year is another question all together. But, looking at Maryland, I've got $20k saved up but that would leave me with $115,00+ in debt, which is absolutely INSANE for an archives position when the average archives worker makes something like $45,000 a year and that's after a few years in. 

 

I'm not trying to talk myself out of the US options I have at all - I really want to be back in the US for a multitude of reasons. I just, financially, can't swallow it without assistanceships or RA positions, etc. Thankfully, the school in the UK isn't making me commit until late July, early August, so I have the luxury of being able to wait until after National Reply Date to decide.

 

How goes the process for everyone else?

[reed155]

Sorry, everyone, I didn't thank you for your advice on dealing with my taciturn prospective graduate school. I am calling the administrative assistant today.
Btw, I visited another school I was admitted to. I was taken aback by the warm and friendly atmosphere!

[reed155]

Also, what do you guys think about the importance of a nice, well-organized, well-disciplined and understanding DGS? To what extent does your success at the program depend on your communication with DGS? How does the way DGS performs her/his functions affect each grad student individually?

[New England Nat]

The DGS isn't irrelevent, but unless they are incompetent you should be able to stand or fall without their help.  And Nice?  Really?  This is a professionalization exercise, don't expect everyone to be nice.  A DGS signs forms and sets policy.  Otherwise they are a professor doing a badly compensated service job for a couple of years. 

[reed155]

Thank you, New England Nat. By saying "nice" I obviously expressed my thoughts in a wrong way. By "nice" I meant helpful.
Would you consider a poorly-organized and unhelpful DGS to be a red flag?

[New England Nat]

Not really.  It's a horrible job that everyone has to do for 2-3 years.  Much like department chair.  Some professors will deliberately make themselves incompetent at such jobs so they aren't asked to do them.  This is departmental dynamics that are both beyond anyone's control and temporary.  There is a good chance that the DGS will change before you even start. 

[reed155]

Thanks for your response!

[TiLeR]

Part of being professional is being nice. If people don’t think you are an agreeable person then they probably won’t think you’re professional. Being DGS may be an under compensated service position, but everyone who goes into the history profession should know that there will be plenty of under compensated service positions throughout their career. So the position is no excuse for being disagreeable or uncommunicative. What kind of graduate experience do you want? There’s something to be said for feeling comfortable with faculty and knowing that they will be there when you have questions and/or concerns.

[New England Nat]

And I'd counter that part of being a professional is learning that not everyone else is going to be nice.  That allowances have to be made for people who are overworked in under compensated service positions.  Even the best most well oiled departments will have grumpy people.  Universities exist in a world of exploitative labor these days, the tenured faculty member doing such a job may not be the most exploited person in the room but make no mistake the pressures are there too.

[TMP]

It is a privilege to have a helpful DGS who works for the students.  I say it's a 'privilege" because I have heard how awful past DGSs have been before the ones who I talked to came to "power."  Being a DGS is not something that every professor wants- it's like being a Department Chair, only for students.  The Department Chair takes care of the faculty.  I work with a DGS so I can speak from experience.

 

Make your judgments based on your interactions with your future adviser and graduate colleagues if you're thinking about people.

[TiLeR]

Right, part of being professional is learning to navigate relationships with grumpy people who have power over you; however, my point is that being grumpy or uncommunicative makes a person less professional, and that saying it’s okay for a professor to be unprofessional because he or she is DGS is wrong.

[CageFree]

Also, what do you guys think about the importance of a nice, well-organized, well-disciplined and understanding DGS? To what extent does your success at the program depend on your communication with DGS? How does the way DGS performs her/his functions affect each grad student individually?

I don't talk to my DGS except in passing. He's a professor in a completely different field.

[New England Nat]

There is about 800 years and half a world between my work and my DGS.  Our meetings last 3 minutes and he signs forms.