MissHavishslam Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) I totally understand the math perspective. I wasn't saying to blow it off, only that out of the application as a whole your math score is low on the totem pole. I think some basic review is necessary but is not something to stress about! Edited March 19, 2013 by MissHavishslam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecheese Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) The math on the "new" GRE is harder than it was on the old GRE, if for no other reason that the fact that time actually is a factor in terms of scoring now--you have to be able to do the problems quickly in order to finish a section on time. I hadn't done math in a while (since the first semester of college after high school for a required statistics course), so getting into each question involved unloosening some rusty gears. When I took the practice tests on paper (the one's put out by ETS) I'd do substantially better that I would on a timed test; I was getting near-perfect scores. When it came to the timed test on the day of the GRE I received a 155 on the math--which, as an English student, is nothing to sneeze at... it apparently is the equivalent of a 720 on the old scoring scale. The math is harder, and there is more time pressure with the new version. That said, it is still easy math. It is worth reviewing just to make sure you remember all of the tricks of the trade (in terms of basic geometry equations, etc.). For the Verbal, you should study (at least) the most commonly occurring words and run though a practice book (like princeton review). I found it easiest to just buy a box of Kaplan flashcards for vocab--I didn't have to spend time making the cards (honestly, I found that hump hard to get over... getting the cards let me get down and dirty with learning words right out of the box). The test leans more towards reading comprehension so reviewing a book is worth doing (just so you know the little tricks that the questions can play), but being a person who reads regularly and studying a stack of commonly occurring GRE words should be more than enough. I only studied for 3 days before taking the test, but I'm glad that I studied for 3 days. Running through a box of vocab cards, being familiar with the question types, and remembering how do fractions and certain types of geometry equations definitely improved my score. ***Scores do matter in terms of fellowships, school wide numerical expectations, etc.*** Buffalo, for example, basically expects a 313 combined score--they say it is for fellowship positions on their website, but they try to accept people that they can give fellowships to (or, at least, waitlist for fellowships). Also, some schools have basic cut off scores. Your SOP and writing sample are going to matter a lot more than your GRE score, but you don't want the GRE score to be the thing that leaves your application in the slush pile. Edited March 19, 2013 by bluecheese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfLorax Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Math is my least favorite subject, but I think I'm underestimating the effects of taking it throughout high school through calculus and tutoring a high school student in algebra and geometry during my sophomore year of college. Ah yes, I think this explains the difference in perspective! I hadn't taken a math class in eight years, so I really did have to re-learn lots of the formulas. I know everyone says the math section is easy, but I had forgotten everything, so I really had to work for that 50th percentile! Those who have recently taken a math class will not have to focus as much energy on preparing for the math test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champagne Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 ***Scores do matter in terms of fellowships, school wide numerical expectations, etc.*** Buffalo, for example, basically expects a 313 combined score--they say it is for fellowship positions on their website, but they try to accept people that they can give fellowships to (or, at least, waitlist for fellowships). Also, some schools have basic cut off scores. Your SOP and writing sample are going to matter a lot more than your GRE score, but you don't want the GRE score to be the thing that leaves your application in the slush pile. This. Exactly. Most of the disagreement on this thread has come from confusion over who we expect to be reviewing our files. While I certainly don't expect English/Lit. adcomms to give two shits about how well I do on essentially advanced high school math, I do know that Graduate Programs in general are ham-strung by maintaining a certain level of respect in their numerical listings. A first year fellowship can be crucial to you being able to attend a program (especially with the current tenor of the academic economy, Thanks, RIck Scott!), and while you may be the best English applicant they've had in ages, it will be much easier to justify and matriculate a school-wide fellowship if you have at least respectable numbers on the quantitative section of the GRE. All of this to say, I doubt having crappy math scores on the GRE will have any effect on your acceptance. It can have a BIG impact on your ability to secure fellowship type funding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComeBackZinc Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Relative power of grad schools to departments matters a lot, too. There are some schools where departments have great institutional power in general, not just in admissions, and some where they are far more constrained. As always: email and ask. "Hey, my overall GRE isn't bad, but I'm bad at math, how much should I worry, what do I need to get," etc etc. Grad assistants tend to be very helpful in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasterazzi Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 But here's another fact, so that you don't get discouraged: GRE math is easy. Like, high school easy. LOL. And here's my problem. Besides geometry, high school math wasn't actually that easy for me. I mean, I didn't fail, but the lowest overall grades I ever got in high school were in math or math based classes. Algebra II, in particular, nearly destroyed me one year. The math on the "new" GRE is harder than it was on the old GRE, if for no other reason that the fact that time actually is a factor in terms of scoring now--you have to be able to do the problems quickly in order to finish a section on time. And this is the part that I know is going to be a problem for me. My brain doesn't work through math very fast at all. I have to be able to see what's going on in the problem and that usually takes time for me. I definitely plan on going over equations and such, and I've already looked at some of the types of math questions they ask. A fair amount seems to be stuff I know I can work out, but the time will probably trip me up. If the math testing stopped at like division, I would be a time champ. I was great at those timed addition/subtraction/multiplication/division tests they made us take in elementary school. Then they threw in fractions. And everything went awry... ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissHavishslam Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Then they threw in fractions. And everything went awry... ... Haha. That's how I feel. They can throw all the algebra at me they want but as soon as shapes, lines, and fractions come into the picture...who's screwed? This gal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasterazzi Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 The funny thing is that I'm good at percentages, but not fractions. And I know they're essentially the same thing, but my brain says a big ol' nope to fractions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissHavishslam Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 The funny thing is that I'm good at percentages, but not fractions. And I know they're essentially the same thing, but my brain says a big ol' nope to fractions. Haha. That's how I feel about algebra and geometry. Geometry is basically formulas with shapes, right? My mind automatically thinks that everything is drawn to scale, even when it says that it is not. My brain actively works to misunderstand math... On another note, a question for the group: how personal is too personal for the SOP? I want to dedicate my first two sentences to a very personal experience that directly relates to what I want to study. I literally only want to use it to start my statement and not spend paragraphs on a life experience. Is this okay? I've been given the "they don't care about you personally. They only care about your work" speech so many times, but this experience is why I want to do what I want to do and I can't seem to kick the urge to start with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasterazzi Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I've seen so much conflicting information regarding whether or not to include personal info in the SOP that I'm not even sure myself. And it doesn't help that I've seen schools that want an SOP and a personal statement, an SOP or a personal statement, an SOP plus a personal statement plus a statement of intent and an SOP/personal statement...O_______O... That being said, what you've described seems reasonable to be and doesn't seem like the sort of thing that would bore readers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecheese Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Yeah, only include personal stuff in your statement of purpose if it directly relates to what you hope to study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Superior Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 On another note, a question for the group: how personal is too personal for the SOP? I want to dedicate my first two sentences to a very personal experience that directly relates to what I want to study. I literally only want to use it to start my statement and not spend paragraphs on a life experience. Is this okay? I've been given the "they don't care about you personally. They only care about your work" speech so many times, but this experience is why I want to do what I want to do and I can't seem to kick the urge to start with it. I started with a personal anecdote sentence. The best opinion to get, though, might be some of these gradcafers who have gotten into like 6 or 10 programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissHavishslam Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I figured it was fine if it directly relates to what I want to do, so I think I'll stick with it. My rec writers have offered to help with drafts and such, so I'll see what they say as well. Like reluctantmidwesterner, I have heard many conflicting opinions on how much personal is appropriate for personal statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecheese Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 There's a difference between a personal statement and a statement of purpose, I think. Most MFA programs I applied to required personal statements (which makes sense given that you're applying to write for 2-3 years, not to become a professional academic). A statement of purpose should be related to your research goals and how you think a particular program will help you accomplish them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissHavishslam Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) True. I just saw that Michigan requires both...geesh. I was already having trouble writing one. This changes my question then: If a school only requires a Statement of Purpose, would it be inappropriate to begin with one or two sentences of a personal experience? Edited March 19, 2013 by MissHavishslam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasterazzi Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Haha and that's just the conundrum I was about. Some of the programs explicitly state what they want in each, but some are super vague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissHavishslam Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Haha and that's just the conundrum I was about. Some of the programs explicitly state what they want in each, but some are super vague. I know! I wish they weren't so vague! JUST TELL ME WHAT YOU WANT! Anywayz, as if it weren't hard enough to write one, now we may need two. This will be me over the next couple of months... wreckofthehope, Datatape, aGiRlCalLeDApPlE and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porridge Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Unless your personal history relates some how to your academic area, don't add your life story. It is an Academic Statement of Purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecheese Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Unless your personal history relates some how to your academic area, don't add your life story. It is an Academic Statement of Purpose. Truth. Porridge, what school did you end up picking? PM me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissHavishslam Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 It does directly relate to my interests (especially nature and race). I did include it in my MA applications and was accepted to three schools, so it couldn't hurt. I left it out during my first round of PhD apps and got nothing but an unfunded offer. I'll mull it over and talk with profs, just wanted to get a general opinion on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champagne Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Obviously, people with more experience and success should weigh in and, in all honesty, probably be considered with more seriousness; however, I think a huge part of the SOP is having an opportunity to distinguish yourself from the crowd. You want to be able to do this with your research interest, but I see nothing wrong with an especially relevant personal experience helping with the whole "I'm a real person" thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecheese Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 My research is related to personal experience, etc. so I related that - but literally with one sentence at the end of the first paragraph. I didn't start with it -- I started with my research and then touched briefly on how intersected with my personal experience. I wouldn't lean too heavy into the personal even if it is relevant to your research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasterazzi Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I know! I wish they weren't so vague! JUST TELL ME WHAT YOU WANT! Anywayz, as if it weren't hard enough to write one, now we may need two. This will be me over the next couple of months... First, I love Gilmore Girls! Second, I think nearly every school I've looked at has wanted both, so yeah I imagine we'll be doing quite a bit of writing. And then there's that whole choosing the writing sample bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissHavishslam Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 First, I love Gilmore Girls! Second, I think nearly every school I've looked at has wanted both, so yeah I imagine we'll be doing quite a bit of writing. And then there's that whole choosing the writing sample bit... Love GG! Have you seen this tumblr: http://oy-with-the-poodles-already.tumblr.com/ ? I was on it for HOURS! Ugh, the writing sample. I'm revamping a previous paper, but I feel like I am actually starting from scratch...I'm also considering applying to one or two library sciences programs. A lot of the work that I do is archival research so...maybe...a nice back up...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasterazzi Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) Oh God, I might have to bookmark that Tumblr... I haven't decided which paper I'm going to use for the writing sample just yet, but I have a few papers due at the end of this semester that I think will probably be useful. Both will be incorporating at least some of my interests. I don't have anything from undergrad that I would really want to use except maybe my Honors Thesis, but it wasn't the best it could be and I don't know that I especially feel like retooling that one. I've considered adding on some cultural studies and/or American studies programs since those tend to align with my interests fairly well, but I don't want to spread myself to thin with getting all this stuff done. Edited March 20, 2013 by reluctantmidwesterner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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