Extremely difficult to decide

[Raoliteri]

Hello all:

 

I am an international student and I've recently received two offers of fully funded PhD positions. School A is in the north and School B down south.  I was inclined on accepting School A's offer since the research with the professors and the department there seem to suit me better. However, funding at School A is full but barely sufficient to make ends meet. On the other hand, School B offers better funding, is generally better ranked, and yet the coursework and program seem relatively different to what I'd like to be doing, however all within scope. So I have been intensively deliberating for the past week and I still cannot make up my mind. Even considering climate and living, all seems in favor of School B, but somehow my heart and mind tell me I'd be happier with School A. I suppose I'd go with School A right away (even if it's ranked lower) had they offered more funding. Do you think it's wise to try to negotiate a better financial package with School A as politely and as delicately as possible, or it might be understood as an arrogance on my part to ask for additional funds once admitted? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[JungWild&Free]

I've heard of a lot of people negotiating for more money once they have better offers.  It seems common, and as long as you are delicate about it and stress that the money is the only thing holding you back from committing, I doubt anyone will blame you for asking.  The worst thing they can do is say no. 

 

I am from the South and live in the North.  The climate is certainly warmer in the South but, depending on where you would be, it could be unbearably humid.  Also, as much as I love my fellow Southerners, there are less international citizens there (probably true of the North outside of major cities also).  I live in Boston now and I would say it's a much more accepting vibe for international transplants.  Cost of living is probably cheaper in the South, but again, it depends on where you're moving. 

 

I would probably try to get more funding, and if I got it and felt it clinched the deal for me, I'd go to School A.

Edited March 12, 2013 by JungWild&Free

[Raoliteri]

Thanks a lot, that's useful advice. Perhaps I should add that school A is in Canada, and school B in the US. In terms of ranking, school A is some 50 places lower than school B, yet the research they do at this point seems more appealing, but that's only based on what I could read online. I will not be able to visit the open houses and make an informed decision based on first-hand insight, so at this point I base my inclination on my gut feeling. So, if I politely explain my situation and dilemmas, I shouldn't fear that the graduate coordinator would be put off by my requesting more funding, right?

[Abc_adams]

You could try talking about possibilities to earn more at University A.

 

Money is important. 5 years of PhD is hard enough. Less money makes it harder. So go ahead, ask University A.

 

I have a feeling wrt money, and this is just me, that you will have regret choosing University A over University B, rather than vice versa. Lack of comfort and living frugally for years does that, and unless University A's course resonates with you perfectly, you might wonder about the alternate timeline where you chose University B.

 

On the other hand, Canada is a beautiful place. Canadian Universities are lower ranked than US universities, but I think most rankings are over-rated. So do ask for ways to increase your stipend and hope for the best.

Best of luck.

[Raoliteri]

You could try talking about possibilities to earn more at University A.

 

Money is important. 5 years of PhD is hard enough. Less money makes it harder. So go ahead, ask University A.

 

I have a feeling wrt money, and this is just me, that you will have regret choosing University A over University B, rather than vice versa. Lack of comfort and living frugally for years does that, and unless University A's course resonates with you perfectly, you might wonder about the alternate timeline where you chose University B.

 

On the other hand, Canada is a beautiful place. Canadian Universities are lower ranked than US universities, but I think most rankings are over-rated. So do ask for ways to increase your stipend and hope for the best.

Best of luck.

Thank you, it does make a lot of sense. 

[PaperTowels]

On the other hand, Canada is a beautiful place. Canadian Universities are lower ranked than US universities, but I think most rankings are over-rated. So do ask for ways to increase your stipend and hope for the best.

 

I believe rankings are valuable if used responsibly, but (while I don't know which rankings you refer to) I would disregard any between-countries rankings entirely, especially for grad school.

 

At most you could compare where each one ranks in their own country, but even that is dubious. Best to compare what PIs you'd work with, and where alumni end up.

Edited March 16, 2013 by PaperTowels

[JungWild&Free]

 So, if I politely explain my situation and dilemmas, I shouldn't fear that the graduate coordinator would be put off by my requesting more funding, right?

 

I'm not sure if it's frowned upon in the Canadian system, but it is a widespread practice in the US to discuss funding with programs if that's a barrier for you, especially if you were offered more at another school.  If you aren't rude about their program or ungrateful for their offer, I don't see how they could be put off by discussing funding.  But, again, I have only heard from people who applied to and attend institutions in the US.

[Fayre]

I'm not sure if it's frowned upon in the Canadian system, but it is a widespread practice in the US to discuss funding with programs if that's a barrier for you, especially if you were offered more at another school.  If you aren't rude about their program or ungrateful for their offer, I don't see how they could be put off by discussing funding.  But, again, I have only heard from people who applied to and attend institutions in the US.

 

I had a Canadian school ask me if I wanted to disclose any other offers to them so they could offer me more competitive funding. That doesn't speak for all schools, of course, but there's at least one bit of anecdotal evidence.

[Huw]

I wouldn't mind being super poor for a few years if it meant getting on the right track with interesting projects.

[cylon.descendant]

I believe rankings are valuable if used responsibly, but (while I don't know which rankings you refer to) I would disregard any between-countries rankings entirely, especially for grad school.

 

At most you could compare where each one ranks in their own country, but even that is dubious. Best to compare what PIs you'd work with, and where alumni end up.

Just want to second this point. Many American schools are more prestigious, but in terms of the quality of education, Canadian schools often have more challenging programs. I am inclined to go for quality over prestige, but it depends to what degree your school will affect your career options afterwards.

[cyclechicster]

Huw, I would be careful with that kind of naive thinking. Sorry to be so blunt, but the job market for people with higher degrees, especially PhD, is getting smaller and smaller. As interesting as projects can be, eventually you will have to leave school and find a position. Tenure-track positions are almost unheard of, and there are articles upon articles with bleak anecdotes about adjunct/lecturer positions.

[pears]

Huw, I would be careful with that kind of naive thinking. Sorry to be so blunt, but the job market for people with higher degrees, especially PhD, is getting smaller and smaller. As interesting as projects can be, eventually you will have to leave school and find a position. Tenure-track positions are almost unheard of, and there are articles upon articles with bleak anecdotes about adjunct/lecturer positions.

 

agreed. it's a rough time to be pursuing a phd with the intention of going into academia. plus -- as cycle said, "sorry to be so blunt," -- not all of us have financial safety nets. personally, i barely have a 5-figure savings account (that's including bonds and various other things, so really, the amount i have readily available is in the 4-figure range), and i've been paid so little that i've been breaking even at best for a couple of years in a row. there is a difference between the "having to hit up my parents to cover my rent once in a while" kind of "poor" and "i need to start selling things or reconsider my degree because i'm down to my last couple hundred bucks and the rent is due in three days" kind of poor. some of us have little to no financial wiggle room.

[juilletmercredi]

I'm from the South, loved living in the South, and would love to return to the South if I got a job or faculty position there.  So my response is biased, but I think a lot of people have stereotypes about the American South and living there that are untrue especially if one is living in a large urban area (Atlanta, Raleigh, New Orleans, etc.)

I think that you should try to negotiate for a higher package with School A.  Ask them if there is any flexibility in the package - say that you really love their program and want to come, but given School B's attractiveness in terms of both reputation and stipend support you're having a difficult time making your choice.  Then see what they say.  If they see it as arrogance, I wouldn't want to go there anyway - I think a little bit of negotiation is okay.  It's very likely that they are unable to budge because of financial considerations.

In that case, I think it depends on "barely sufficient."  Personally, I don't think I would choose a lower-ranked program where I have to struggle to survive over a better-reputed program where I have enough money to live on.  In addition to thinking about my comfort for 5 years of my life, I'd also be thinking about future prospects; although rankings are somewhat overhyped, the relative reputation of your graduate school does have some impact on where you can look for tenure-track jobs.

 

Examine the reasons that you feel you would be happier at School A, especially if a rational think-through produces School B as a clear winner for you.

[Penguin123]

I would really emphasize, again, to consider what you want to do and where you want to work AFTER the education. Let's say you want to work in the US after you graduate, probably better to go to the US school, so that traveling to interviews is easier (less interference with studies - trust me interviews can be draining) and there are more options to find a position in the US. I don't know much about Visas, but maybe easier to stay in the US if you're already in the US. Of course, if you prefer to work in Canada then why not go to the Canadian school.

[Wicked_Problem]

I was under the impression that fewer international admits were offered in many Canadian programs. Is that true in your case? By the way, I went to Toronto for a conference last October and I ABSOLUTELY loved it.