PTS or BC?

[Therewillbeluke]

Well, a few people are posting these so I figured I'd throw mine in, you know the deal.

 

Unless Yale comes at me with more money I'm down to Princeton Theological Seminary (M.Div) and Boston College School of Theology and Ministry (M.T.S).

 

I'm interested in Historical Theology, specifically Medieval Theology and how it has been appropriated/interpreted by later theologians (i.e. Post-Modern Theologians as well as Medieval themes that carry over into the Reformation).

 

I want to go on to Doctoral work but am open to exploring the possibility of ministry.

 

I have full tuition at both schools and may get an assistantship at BC.

 

Any input is much appreciated.

[Seatbelt Blue]

I'm not biased at all, but I'd go with BC. The resources BTI offers are immense, and I think you could get an absolutely spectacular education there.

[Josh J.]

I agree with Seatbelt Blue. BC has more resources being connected to the university. Since you are interested in historical theology, especially medieval and modern theology, I would bet you'll get a better education from the Jesuits.

[Therewillbeluke]

I mostly agree with what both of you have said; however, part of my worry is that at PTS it seems that I will be able to take more electivess than at BC, whose program seems to be eaten up by a lot of required classes (i.e. Biblical Studies, Moral Theology). Further, it looks like PTS would give me more opportunities for languages due to the extra year.

 

Thoughts?

[Josh J.]

So, at PTS you have 24 elective credits, which is the same as BC.  BC requires 6 credits in each area, PTS requires 12, except for "practical theology, " where it requires 14. BC allows 9 language hours to count towards the degree, while PTS allows as many as you want, as electives.  I don't see a ton of difference, but I seem to remember now that you were thinking about ordination, right? In that case, PTS might be better, but I would think academically, BC would be better. 

 

However, you might, of course, be able to transfer into the MDiv from the MTS at BC....

 

Also, it seems that 6 of the hours at BC are historical theology, which, since it is your field, would be a positive...

Edited March 21, 2013 by Josh J.

[Therewillbeluke]

So, at PTS you have 24 elective credits, which is the same as BC.  BC requires 6 credits in each area, PTS requires 12, except for "practical theology, " where it requires 14. BC allows 9 language hours to count towards the degree, while PTS allows as many as you want, as electives.  I don't see a ton of different, but I seem to remember now that you were thinking about ordination, right? In that case, PTS might be better, but I would think academically, BC would be better.  However, you might, of course, be able to transfer into the MDiv from the MTS at BC....

 

I am considering ministry, but academia is still the prime goal.

 

Part of what I came up with the elective thing for PTS was that they have a three week January term that is optional, but is included in tuition, which would open up 3 more spaces for electives/languages (one January class a year for three years). 

 

Plus, PTS requires 12 Church History credits as opposed to 6 at BC, since Historical Theology is my field I was implicitly including that in the "elective" camp.

 

It may sound like I'm in the tank for PTS but I'm not, just arguing devil's advocate to come to a reasonable conclusion.

[Seatbelt Blue]

Considering the direction in ministry you told me you'd been considering, if that's something you're really thinking about, BC is hands down the better choice.

[Josh J.]

I am considering ministry, but academia is still the prime goal.

 

Part of what I came up with the elective thing for PTS was that they have a three week January term that is optional, but is included in tuition, which would open up 3 more spaces for electives/languages (one January class a year for three years). 

 

Plus, PTS requires 12 Church History credits as opposed to 6 at BC, since Historical Theology is my field I was implicitly including that in the "elective" camp.

 

It may sound like I'm in the tank for PTS but I'm not, just arguing devil's advocate to come to a reasonable conclusion.

 

Ah, that does make sense.  And yeah, I agree with your outlook at your church history courses are in a way electives, and the Jan Term, since it is included in tuition, is a nice thing...

 

Still...Catholic versus Presbyterian when you are studying historical theology.... especially when you are Episcopal..I'd go for BC. 

[Neem217]

I say PTS. Who in the BTI teaches reformed theology? Well, obviously, no one at BC's STM teaches it. No one at Harvard teaches it (at least not now, but they're thinking of hiring someone, when will that happen? Who knows?). Check out BU as I don't know their faculty well.

 

PTS appears to have much breadth of historical theologians that relate to your interest, particularly medieval theology as its related to reformed thought. Both appear to have only one or so medieval specialist. There are also a greater number of historical theologians at PTS. You might want to specifically look at the course requirements for the degree. Perhaps both require two courses in ethics and two in systematics, but do you really want to take 2 courses in say Catholic ethics? Catholic systematic thought - if your area of interest is more reformed thought? Who at BC's STM does postmodern thought? Who at BC does postmodern thought (any thinkers you're considering specifically)? At BC's theology department (which is separate from the STM), I suppose you could consider Brian Robinette who does some modern philosophy such as phenomenology and mimetic theory.  I suppose you'd go elsewhere for these courses in postmodern thought. I guess the same can be asked of PTS in terms of postmodern thought...

 

You also would want to look at the course listings - in the past and if they have them projected for the future. How many courses are medieval history/theology will there be in the next two years at either schools?. This is great to look up for any school. You may also want to check to see your POI's won't be on leave in the next two years. This happens - so learn about the sabbatical rules at different schools. This semester at HDS, two professors who do philosophy of religion were on leave, and HDS doesn't have rules about "replacing" those types of classes. So, there was a dearth of philosophy of religion courses this semester.

 

If you see your research goals being specific to reformed thought, and if you have limited exposure to it, then I wouldn't go to BC. 

 

Lastly, check out/talk to students and professors about about where their Masters students place for PhD programs. I don't think the STM has that great of a track record for placing students into doctoral programs, even at BC's GSAS Phd in Theology. The STM is not a funnel program like UChicago was/tends to be. I can't speak for PTS, but if you wanted to stay at Princeton for graduate work, perhaps the smart idea is to go to Princeton. 

 

And I'm not sure if simply b/c Catholic theology may be more "similar" to Episcopal theology, that it's a better idea to go to BC's STM. It really depends on what you want to study specifically. Anyways, just my thoughts. 

Edited March 21, 2013 by Neem217

[sacklunch]

I will say that at least when I was there BC was VERY liberal with their requirements. I got away with taking so many of the required courses by simply asking my adviser if a particular course would count. One summer I took both ecclesiology and christology, which were very short, but they counted those as part of my required courses. Another time I took a 'January term' course at Gordon Con. (it was two weeks) on 'community organizing.' Another time I took a 3 week class on 'Christian ethics.' All of those counted for my degree and I still ended up taking a full load outside of those courses. So I ended up graduating with more classes than I needed for the degree (three or four), but it worked out well because it allowed me take exactly what I wanted to prepare me for more advanced work. What was strange was when I asked my adviser if something could count, he would pretty easily allow it (though my guy was really friendly--and understood that biblical studies students should be spending way more time on philology than anything else) without really noting anything down. So when I graduated I was wondering if anyone was even keeping track? Kind of odd, and perhaps this was because the program was still fairly new, but I can't imagine things have changed much.

 

Also, with regard to languages: normally MTS programs will only allow their applicants to take X amount of language courses. This varies from place to place, but most, I think, allow you to take like 6-9 credits. I petitioned the STM, with the support of two of the older/respected bible faculty, and quite easily was allowed to take much more than they normally allow. They said that anything above the intermediate level would count as a 'bible' course, since at that level and above you are spending more time on content rather than grammar (and thus bible); though, again, strangely they allowed upper level classical Greek courses to count (not related to biblical literature at all!). 

 

In short, I wouldn't be too concerned about their requirements. And from what I have heard about other seminaries, PTS included, they are VERY serious about you fulfilling certain courses in order to graduate. Also, as someone above mentioned, access to the BTI puts you into contact with HUNDREDS of professors. If you go to BC you will have access to more courses than (I imagine) anywhere else in the world. 

[Lux Lex Pax]

I have to agree with Neem217. PTS -- particularly the M.Div. program -- has placed many students in great Ph.D. programs in recent years. The list of schools includes: Yale, Harvard, Princeton, PTS, Duke, Chicago, Emory, UVa, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, UCSB, Fordham, Marquette, and BC to name a few. BC is great, but in terms of placement in top doctoral programs, I don't think it can match PTS.

[Lux Lex Pax]

Also, as far as medievalists are concerned, PTS has Rorem in history, Charry in theology, Bowlin in theology, and there is Eric Gregory at the university who works on Augustine.

[Julian144]

Does anyone else know how STM grads fare in admission to PhD programs? I am in a similar situation: considering the PhD route but open to other applications of the degree. 

[wanderingtheologian]

I'm at the STM right now, and this year, almost every student who applied to a Phd program received an offer somewhere. It is becoming a very good school in terms of placing students at some of the top Phd programs, I'd say. Places like Notre Dame, Fordham, St. Louis University, Boston College to name a few.