Fall 2014 applications, project loser: Writing sample question :)

[The Whistler]

First of all, hey guys, long time no see, and congratulations to everyone who successfuly got into grad school this year.

 

I, naturally, didn't get in, and now that the anger and disappointment has settled a bit, I'm considering trying again this year. However, there is the always-present problem of the writing sample. I have to write a new one, being that my last one was, sincerely speaking, probably a piece of crap, BUT, I have absolutely no one who would be willing to proofread it and tell me what I'm doing wrong. So the question is, what the hell am I going to do now?

 

So, if you were, say, a fourth year grad student, and got a very polite e-mail from a foreign prospective grad student politely asking you for help with her writing sample in your field of study (and 15 pages is a lot to proofread), would you do it?

 

And this, mind you, would be in time, like three-months-before-the-deadline in time.

[ghijklmn]

For me, it would how busy I am. Would you be able to offer some small compensation?

Edited April 3, 2013 by ghijklmn

[The Whistler]

Thanks for your answer.

 

Well, if I had no other choice (meaning If I couldn't find anyone who'd do it free of charge), I probably would. The only problem is that small compensation probably differs in amount in the US and in Croatia, being that my "solid" paycheck over here amounts to about 800 US dollars.

 

So how much would you charge and how? Per page?

 

I apologize for so many questions, but I am really clueless about all this, and I'm to see if a new circle is something I'm willing to go through, both emotionally and financially.

[ghijklmn]

Well if it were a topic I was interested in (hypothetically), I might do it for free. Though probably nothing detailed, just some comments on the whole thing. If you want someone to really engage with your writing sample and give you detailed advice, then that might be harder. (Maybe like $50? I don't know!) Are there any former professors of yours who would be willing to look it over?

[Laokoon]

I would have to imagine there are enough intelligent, engaged, and caring prospectives and grad students on here that we could cobble together a formidable force to help you (for the low cost of up votes and gifs)

[ghijklmn]

Oh yes! Here on Grad Cafe I'm sure you could find someone. I was just responding to the idea of e-mailing a fourth-year student at a program out of the blue.

[The Whistler]

Actually, $50 seems like an OK price to me if I decide to bug someone (who is probably super busy as it is) from one of my prospective schools.

 

I also thought of asking here, but it somehow seemed as too much to ask? I mean, SoP is a different thing, it's two pages long. A WS is a considerable amount of text. But if there's a chance, maybe I should start collecting gifs right away. How 'bout this one?

 

Thanks, you people rock.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: And ghijklmn, regarding your question about my professors, the problem is that I only have two lit professors over here (a very small university), and neither of them teach or research Victorian literature. The only way they even allowed me to write my MA thesis on the topic of the Victorian Gothic was that I had to incorporate it with one of their areas (Milton, specifically).

Edited April 3, 2013 by The Whistler

[ProfLorax]

EDIT: And ghijklmn, regarding your question about my professors, the problem is that I only have two lit professors over here (a very small university), and neither of them teach or research Victorian literature. The only way they even allowed me to write my MA thesis on the topic of the Victorian Gothic was that I had to incorporate it with one of their areas (Milton, specifically).

Even if their area is different than yours, your lit professors still know what good literary analysis looks like! I would suggest trying your former professors first, then contacting graduate students. 

Edited April 3, 2013 by proflorax

[Phil Sparrow]

My perspective as the type of student you'd be approaching:

 

If a prospective applicant approached me with this question, especially with an offer to pay me to rework/edit/proof a writing sample to be used in the application to my program, I would decline. It would strike me as very unethical. Now, if you were to establish a personal relationship with someone and later on they offered to look over your WS as a personal favor, that would be a different story. I'd be careful if I were you, though. You don't want a current student mentioning to an adcom member that you asked her to involve herself in anything shady (monetary compensation for what is in some ways a back-door leg-up in the application process). Such a thing, by the way, might very well come up in casual conversation.

 

ETA: I just realized that your original post didn't mention monetary compensation. I would still probably decline in order to avoid overstepping any ethical boundaries, however. Favors, though, code somewhat differently than paid work.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Phil Sparrow

[asleepawake]

If a prospective applicant approached me with this question, especially with an offer to pay me to rework/edit/proof a writing sample to be used in the application to my program, I would decline. It would strike me as very unethical. 

 

This x a million. Don't do that. My gosh, don't do that.

 

There are people you could pay to look it over, but they should NOT be people at the schools you want to attend. Honestly, a bunch of us on grad cafe would probably do it for free.

[ghijklmn]

Ooh, didn't think of all that. I was just thinking of the freelance proofreading that I do.

[The Whistler]

*EEK*

 

Man, it didn't even cross my mind that it could be considered unethical. Thank you, thank you, thank you a thousand times, Phil. I was just naively thinking that grads at my prospective schools would be a good choice since, well, they got into my prospective schools. Let's all facepalm to that now.

 

Proflorax - I'll probably tiptoe around my professors too, and ask if one of them could look it over, but I don't have high hopes.  I asked for a similar favor before (it was a research plan when I intended to apply to a foreign uni, but didn't, due to some personal problems at the time), and one of them politely refused since she was way too busy with her students (and techically, I'm not her student anymore, since I got my MA two years ago).

 

The other one (my former advisor) read it, but the comment was: "It looks ok, you can send it." Which leads me to believe that he probably didn't pay much attention to it because he was either busy or not interested in the topic. Then again, a research plan is not literary criticism, so maybe it would be different this time around.

 

If they say no, I'll probably try and see if I can find someone here. I'll try not to beg too much, I promise.

Edited April 3, 2013 by The Whistler

[asleepawake]

I would totally look it over, and I bet a bunch of other posters would as well, but I don't work in Victorianism. I honestly don't think that is super important to get some basic feedback, though.

Edited April 3, 2013 by asleepawake

[ProfLorax]

Proflorax - I'll probably tiptoe around my professors too, and ask if one of them could look it over, but I don't have high hopes.  I asked for a similar favor before (it was a research plan when I intended to apply to a foreign uni, but didn't, due to some personal problems at the time), and one of them politely refused since she was way too busy with her students (and techically, I'm not her student anymore, since I got my MA two years ago).

 

The other one (my former advisor) read it, but the comment was: "It looks ok, you can send it." Which leads me to believe that he probably didn't pay much attention to it because he was either busy or not interested in the topic. Then again, a research plan is not literary criticism, so maybe it would be different this time around.

Ugh! That's frustrating. Can you talk to any of your professors from undergrad? I had lots of support and feedback from my undergrad and grad professors, and I've been out of school for over three years. I'm sorry that your profs aren't offering lots of support. 

 

Could you audit or take an upper division undergrad or grad lit class this summer or fall? I just think it would be so hard to write a good seminar paper from scratch in isolation. Not impossible, but challenging. In a class, your ideas develop due to the discussion and debate among classmates and the professor. And as a student, you'll be able to visit a professor during office hours and get more targeted feedback on your writing sample. Hell, if you don't live near a university, even taking a lit class at a community college could provide some resources for feedback and guidance.

[crazyhappy]

Hi,

I do work in Victorianism, and I am happy to look it over too.

[The Whistler]

Ugh! That's frustrating. Can you talk to any of your professors from undergrad? I had lots of support and feedback from my undergrad and grad professors, and I've been out of school for over three years. I'm sorry that your profs aren't offering lots of support. 

 

Could you audit or take an upper division undergrad or grad lit class this summer or fall? I just think it would be so hard to write a good seminar paper from scratch in isolation. Not impossible, but challenging. In a class, your ideas develop due to the discussion and debate among classmates and the professor. And as a student, you'll be able to visit a professor during office hours and get more targeted feedback on your writing sample. Hell, if you don't live near a university, even taking a lit class at a community college could provide some resources for feedback and guidance.

 

Well, those are my professors from undergrad. And I did my M.A. there, in translation studies. And there are no community colleges, private unis and state unis here, all six we have (yup, only six) are state.

 

Croatian education system is... Well, I'll be nice and say underdeveloped. There's no such thing as summer school, taking only some of the classes, or even auditing here. I couldn't even get an M.A. in literature, there was only teacher school and translation studies to choose from, and my uni ranks as second in the state (which means absolutely nothing, since the one that ranks as first isn't much better, and both were nonexistent in all of the online apps I filled out, I had to choose "other").

 

This is precisely the reason why they even let me write my MA thesis in literature, even though I'm essentially a translator, the fact that I had no choice. Man, I don't really know how to even begin to explain how medieval our education is. Most of our classes were obligatory, I think we could choose only two per semester which weren't.

 

As far as my professors go, it's not exactly that they aren't supportive, I'd pretty much say they're overwhelmed by all the stuff they have to do. Plus, if one of them did read my WS and if they thought it was a gret piece of literary criticism, I can never be sure if it's great according to US standards, or according to the standard of my university. Which isn't that good, since a great deal of people here study English because they want to be teachers of English as a second language, and they don't give a crap about literature. So they pass classes any way they can.

 

This is the reason I'd prefer a US native (or someone attending grad school in the US) as a proofreader.

 

Sometimes I think I'm crazy that I'm even applying, since getting in is impossible.

 

All of you guys, thanks so much for the support. Naturally, I still have to write the sample, but it's great to know that this is such a supportive community.

[ErnestPWorrell]

If you're willing to pay, you may consider posting the job on craigslist under "gigs: writing" and request a "native US English Phd student or graduate" in the listing. 

Edited April 3, 2013 by ErnestPWorrell

[zielschmerz]

I'd distinguish between "looking over" and proofreading. You don't need anyone who knows anything about literature/literary criticism to proofread, just someone who 1. knows about the English language and 2. is not you. Proofing is a much less laborious task, which is definitely something to keep in mind when you are asking for help. On the other hand, when it comes to making sure your arguments are clear and adequate, you do want someone involved in lit studies. (My parents are not academics, and I sent them an award-winning paper: "That was great, sweetie! I think we understood some of it.") But this should be something your professors can do, even if they don't specialize in your time period (I would think). What a specialist would be uniquely able to do is, say, tell you, "You don't mention the work of so-and-so, and to readers in the field that's a glaring absence." Two caveats there: 1. I am entering as a Victorianist, and I would not trust myself to be able to give you that advice; you might need a real prof for that or do without. 2. The professor who told me I needed to include Sharon Cameron's Impersonality into my paper about a Modernist writer was herself a Victorianist, so people might surprise you. 

 

A handful of other thoughts: My paper on a 'High Modernist' did not prevent me from getting accepted as a Victorianist into super Victorian-heavy depts (Rutgers, Bloomington in particular). Of course, modernism is way closer to the Victorian era than Milton, but I still say don't be afraid to have a fantastic Milton writing sample, and then use your personal statement to package yourself as a Victorianist. No offense to my fellow 19thC people but, damn, girl—if you can tackle Milton I'm sure you can take on the Brontës. I'd be much more concerned if you were moving the opposite direction, you know? A modernism person who wants to be a medievalist has way more catching up to do (languages and whatnot) than vice versa.

 

And speaking of languages... follow your heart, now... but I bet some comparative lit people would be all over you.    

[Two Espressos]

And speaking of languages... follow your heart, now... but I bet some comparative lit people would be all over you.    

 

This.  I'm sorry to hear you weren't successful this season, The Whistler, but you should seriously consider the comp lit route.

[The Whistler]

I'd distinguish between "looking over" and proofreading. You don't need anyone who knows anything about literature/literary criticism to proofread, just someone who 1. knows about the English language and 2. is not you. Proofing is a much less laborious task, which is definitely something to keep in mind when you are asking for help. On the other hand, when it comes to making sure your arguments are clear and adequate, you do want someone involved in lit studies. (My parents are not academics, and I sent them an award-winning paper: "That was great, sweetie! I think we understood some of it.") But this should be something your professors can do, even if they don't specialize in your time period (I would think). What a specialist would be uniquely able to do is, say, tell you, "You don't mention the work of so-and-so, and to readers in the field that's a glaring absence." Two caveats there: 1. I am entering as a Victorianist, and I would not trust myself to be able to give you that advice; you might need a real prof for that or do without. 2. The professor who told me I needed to include Sharon Cameron's Impersonality into my paper about a Modernist writer was herself a Victorianist, so people might surprise you. 

 

A handful of other thoughts: My paper on a 'High Modernist' did not prevent me from getting accepted as a Victorianist into super Victorian-heavy depts (Rutgers, Bloomington in particular). Of course, modernism is way closer to the Victorian era than Milton, but I still say don't be afraid to have a fantastic Milton writing sample, and then use your personal statement to package yourself as a Victorianist. No offense to my fellow 19thC people but, damn, girl—if you can tackle Milton I'm sure you can take on the Brontës. I'd be much more concerned if you were moving the opposite direction, you know? A modernism person who wants to be a medievalist has way more catching up to do (languages and whatnot) than vice versa.

 

And speaking of languages... follow your heart, now... but I bet some comparative lit people would be all over you.    

 

Well, my writing sample was actually an excerpt from my MA thesis, which was on similarities of Milton's Satan and Satanic Heroes in the Victorian Gothic, and somehow I presume that it was the weakest part of my application, even though my professors were super content with it when I wrote and presented it. Could it be because it was a 20 pg. excerpt from a 40 pg. essay? I mean, that's why it didn't follow the standard introduction-body-conclusion formula. And you think it'd be OK to send a WS that has nothing to do with what I intend to study? I'm asking because I'm extremely interested in mythology as well, especially Arthurian Legends and the heroic epic in general, that's actually why I didn't have any problems with Milton during my studies.

 

 

This.  I'm sorry to hear you weren't successful this season, The Whistler, but you should seriously consider the comp lit route.

 

Thanks.

 

As far as comp lit goes, I'll be sincere and say that I have no idea about the exact difference between comp lit and literature in general, since we don't have the distinction over here, and everything is just "literature". I always thought you have to compare literatures of two different languages, e.g. French and English, if you want to study comp. lit. Can you compare periods as well? If this is the case, I'd be much, much more comfortable doing this.

 

I mean, I'd much rather do research on, I don't know, Poetic Edda, than on Jane Austen.

[egwynn]

I don't feel that the WS is quite that flexible: my impression has been that cohesion is important.  I'm not saying that I don't think interdisciplinarity is marketable or that no one should ever cross imposed time-period boundaries.  Rather, I think (based on two rounds of apps and getting advice from several faculty from three different institutions during those application processes) that a very significant part of the application process is demonstrating that you can envision the sort of work that you will be doing going forward.  Part of that work is specializing, and another part of that is composing a dissertation that addresses a specific topic of appropriate size and relevance.  I would think that writing a paper about something that you are not going to propose as your field of study could convey that you're indecisive and/or don't understand the profession or the purpose of graduate study.  While I think that it's perfectly fine--and even a good idea--to convey broader interests in your SOP, I also think that showing that you have a very good idea of what constitutes an appropriate concentration for the purposes of the dissertation and declaring yourself upon entering the job market as a Victorianist should probably trump actually exploring your broader interests in your WS.  This is especially true if exploring other interests means presenting a sample of your writing that is not relevant (or only tangentially so) to what you propose to do once you've been admitted to a program.

 

Of course, I think that it's understood that, when you arrive at the program, you will explore and perhaps completely abandon what you proposed to do in your application and even in your first year or two of study.  But the implication of the WS, SOP, and application materials should still be that you comprehend the parameters of academic work and the work being done in the departments to which you're applying.  From the sounds of it, your circumstances are making this a lot more difficult, but I don't think that you necessarily have to abandon your WS; perhaps you can rework it to be sure that the concentration is on your intended field and Milton is a vehicle of study?  

 

Also, re: auditing: have you checked into unofficial auditing?  Maybe you can find a prof who's fine with you just showing up to their class and participating and you can just skip all of the official stuff (i.e. the administration).  It won't be on your transcript, but it might be a constructive environment for writing a 20-page essay.