HKS: Need Blind Admissions

[aecp]

Hello,

 

Does HKS adopt a "need-blind" admissions policy like WWS or do they factor in projected ability to self-fund in making admissions decision? 

 

Do they have the same financial aid policy for all programs or different policies for the different programs (MPP, MPA, MPA2, MPA/ID, MC/MPA)?

 

Thanks for sharing.

[adollarninetynine]

Nobody can tell you for sure even if a school says it is, but HKS is notorious for being cheapskates and they overly emphasize the ability to self fund.

[sherpa07]

Nobody can tell you for sure even if a school says it is, but HKS is notorious for being cheapskates and they overly emphasize the ability to self fund.

Agreed.  HKS is not particularly transparent with its admissions processes, or especially its financial policies.  I received $0 from HKS a few days ago, and emailed inquiring about the decision.  Apparently only about a quarter of students got ANY funding.  If that includes PhD students, then that's quite the pittance for MPP/MPA, etc. students.  I'm also assuming many of those 25%-ers received a relatively trivial amount -$5K, $10K.

 

Given this incredibly small amount of funding, it seems like HKS would employ some sort of "need-considered" policy.  It can't accept a bunch of students, give them no money, and then have a relatively low yield.  Its funding policies are so different from peer schools that it almost requires it to consider ability to finance as part of admissions.

 

This is, though, all speculation.  I've never seen anything official on the matter.

[ridofme]

I believe I saw somewhere that HKS's admissions are need-blind, which is why there's a separate application.

 

Apparently only about a quarter of students got ANY funding.  If that includes PhD students, then that's quite the pittance for MPP/MPA, etc. students.  I'm also assuming many of those 25%-ers received a relatively trivial amount -$5K, $10K. 

 

I don't think this is unique to HKS. Of all the schools where I checked how many students receive funding, the highest percentage I saw was the Harris School, which said up to 40%, I believe. And of course the majority of those people are receiving the trivial amounts you mentioned.

[adollarninetynine]

you are right in that most policy schools stink with financial aid. HKS gets a lot of crap and I think rightfully deserves to because of the amount of resources the university has and it refuses to help its students. if princeton can do what it does over at WWS, than I don't see why HKS could not do better than it does right now. if HKS low balled its students but provided ample opportunities for students or did better with its courses or something I would be more inclined to give them a break, but i am sure many of you will find out that most of the students here despise the career services office for its incompetence.

[sherpa07]

I don't disagree that other schools, including Chicago, also have poor financial policies.  But there are plenty of schools comparable to HKS that fund significantly better.  Princeton, of course, funds all students.  Duke Sanford's website says they fund 90%, and all US students get a small assistanceship.  UPenn Fels' website says they fund 80%, and the same is true at Cornell CIPA.  There's no question that these schools have comparable - in fact, less - financial resources than Harvard, and they can do it. 

 

I also don't disagree that it's worth a small premium to go to Harvard.  It is Harvard, after all.  A $100K premium - over Duke, Penn, Cornell, Princeton?  I, at least, don't think so.  I really do think HKS needs to thoroughly revamp its funding policies, especially to remain competitive.  Graduate School is now often prohibitively expensive for many; that wasn't as true a decade or two ago.

[aecp]

So it seems fair to assume that if two candidates are otherwise about equally ranked,  the one with the ability to self-fund even if ranked slightly lower on other factors (academic history, essays references, public service, etc) would be admitted over the one who will need funding?

 

Not good, at all.

[Damis]

Really hard to make any broad leap in logic when there's simply not much to go off of.

 

In the HKS thread, there is an individual that received a tuition+fees scholarship...he just has to pay for his living expenses. There's funding.

 

There's also a confluence of variables that we'll never be privy to when it comes to this game we play. The juxtaposition of these institutions regarding funding, therefore, doesn't make much sense. Class sizes, for instance, make a huge difference. How many students does HKS take in for their MPP as opposed to Princeton's MPA? Additionally, these schools, I believe, are separate institutions within their various universities and colleges. Their funding mechanisms, therefore, are slightly different.

 

All we have are a bunch of aggregates to go off of, which are based on testimony from people applying - the good, bad, and ugly side of it. Beating up on any institution because they don't provide more funding isn't fair, imho.

[intlrlns]

Sure it's a great degree and holds a lot of value but for a public policy program I think it's disheartening that they can't even offer minimal assistance to those in dire need. Some Harvard PhD students joke around that the HKS students pay for their degrees.

 

Harvard attracts a lot of fully funded students from all over the world. It does not need to give out an exorbitant amount of money to the rest in need. For many candidates the degree could really propel their careers and HKS is truly losing out on some outstanding students. 

[DaniCM]

Sure it's a great degree and holds a lot of value but for a public policy program I think it's disheartening that they can't even offer minimal assistance to those in dire need. Some Harvard PhD students joke around that the HKS students pay for their degrees.

 

Harvard attracts a lot of fully funded students from all over the world. It does not need to give out an exorbitant amount of money to the rest in need. For many candidates the degree could really propel their careers and HKS is truly losing out on some outstanding students. 

 

Slightly related but still definitely off topic, given your funding situation with zero from HKS and 19K from Fletcher, where have you decided to go?

[adollarninetynine]

Really hard to make any broad leap in logic when there's simply not much to go off of.

 

In the HKS thread, there is an individual that received a tuition+fees scholarship...he just has to pay for his living expenses. There's funding.

 

There's also a confluence of variables that we'll never be privy to when it comes to this game we play. The juxtaposition of these institutions regarding funding, therefore, doesn't make much sense. Class sizes, for instance, make a huge difference. How many students does HKS take in for their MPP as opposed to Princeton's MPA? Additionally, these schools, I believe, are separate institutions within their various universities and colleges. Their funding mechanisms, therefore, are slightly different.

 

All we have are a bunch of aggregates to go off of, which are based on testimony from people applying - the good, bad, and ugly side of it. Beating up on any institution because they don't provide more funding isn't fair, imho.

 

There is no large leap of logic since I am a current student here, and I can tell you straight off the bat that most of my classmates here know this to be true. You seriously can't take one guy on an internet board as evidence. You are right in that Princeton's class size makes it easier, but I can tell you without blinking an eye that not even close to 70 people in my class receive the level of funding at Princeton. Considering Harvard's wealth compared to Princeton's, this is ridiculous. 

 

I do agree that the funding mechanisms are different, but that is my main complaint. HKS has been historically and presently terrible at fundraising, finding resources, and building a strong foundation for students in terms of career services. Like I said, if any of you join HKS this year you will soon find out that my "bashing" is actually tame criticism compared to what you will hear when you arrive. I would not beat up any other school for these problems, but HKS does deserve it because if it is going to brand itself using the Harvard name, it needs to live up to it.

[Rugger]

adollarninetynine: What is it about their career services that you find lacking?  And what concentration are you?

[adollarninetynine]

I'll just say I am in one of the more popular concentrations at the risk of being outed. I will say that our criticism's of HKS's career office may also be found at many schools, but this is just my experience at HKS. I am also in a dual degree with another professional school so my criticism are even greater than my peers because I have a point of comparison. Lastly, I will say that I do understand that career services is not there to get you free jobs and that students need to hustle and put effort, but even with that considered the HKS office has been terrible.

 

First of all, the career office literally has no connections with any employers that allow for students to have an easier time networking or finding alumni.recruiters. Most of the time, the people working there are lazy or incompetent and their best advice is always to "network". There is no streamlined recruiting process here, and most of the times it is like looking on craigslist in that random e-mails are sent telling us to look at job postings. You literally have to do everything on your own and the process is very disorganized. From what I have heard from my WWS friends, they have their act together over there. It seems to me that the career office here expects us to ride of the back of the Harvard name and do nothing.

 

They are also very vague regarding employment statistics. If you go look at the stats, it is impossible to discern any meaningful facts from them. A laymen reading them would think that it is reasonbly doable to get a job from Mckinsey or the world bank or hit a decent salary to pay off the loans, but in fact most of those jobs go to dual degree MBAs and it is much harder for HKS students to land their first choice jobs. This also goes back to the career office having nothing to offer in terms of making it easier for students to get their applications actually read when they apply online for a position. It is never a good thing when students know more about hiring and such than the career office.

 

These are just some basic criticisms, but once again remember my preface. This is to be expected at most policy schools but Harvard has a higher bar because of its brand so I think it deserves the criticisms.

[David_King]

Hi. I think I can help answer some of these questions -- though my answers won't make it any easier for prospective students who aren't getting financial aid.  The Kennedy School is very expensive; Cambridge housing costs are crazy; and reasonably-priced daycare is especially hard to find. I wish we could make things less expensive.  It's distressing to recruit students to HKS only to have us fall short on financial aid. 

 

I chair the MPA admissions committees, and I'm sure that the MPP admissions committee operates this way, too: we have a need-blind admissions policy.  Applicants whom we think have money have *no* advantage over applicants whom we suspect will need a lot of aid.  (And if anyone -- ever -- raised the question of letting someone in because they have the ability to pay... that person would be shunned in the admissions committee and then drummed out.)

 

Our ethic in favor of need-blind admissions sometimes puts us in the uncomfortable position of turning down applicants who *would* have been funded by an employer/agency/non-profit.  For example, imagine that an agency guarantees the tuition for any state employee who is admitted to one of our MPA programs.  That guarantee would not come up in our discussions about an applicant's "fit to the program."  The bar for admission cannot be moved by a pre-existing grant or scholarship. We leave scholarship money on the table, unspent.  It happened with several scholarships this year alone. Because those pots of money were given to HKS to fund students from specific countries/states/agencies (and so on), we cannot spend the money elsewhere.

 

Harvard's endowment is huge, yes. But it's useful to remember that each school has only a slice of the endowment.  HKS has had to raise its own endowment.  We (and the Divinity School, and the Ed School) would *love* to have even a slice of the Law School or Business School endowments. Since we are a young school, and since we don't spin out millionare alumni, our endowment can't support the kinds of scholarships we'd like to see.

 

You shouldn't be surprised that many of us at HKS (and especially on the Admissions Committee) look at the Wilson School with envy. Of course... we'd rather teach here... but we wish we could fund our students as they do.  The Wilson School received a remarkable gift that set up their tuition endowment.  Tufts, too, has some good financial aid packages.  We're envious.

 

David Ellwood made financial aid his top priority when he became dean, and we have more of it than we used to have.  Much of it, though, has been given for candidates from specific places or backgrounds. There is more "general aid" available than there used to be, too -- but not enough to make anyone especially happy.  I *am* sorry.  You-all can leave, for another time, discussions about whether the money "should" be spent on an MPA. We can leave conversations about Placement and Career Services to another time, too. 

 

Today, though, with many of you deciding whether to go to HKS or elsewhere, I only wish that we (and they) had more resources to help folks out.

[intlrlns]

Slightly related but still definitely off topic, given your funding situation with zero from HKS and 19K from Fletcher, where have you decided to go?

 

Set on Fletcher for now! Unless my prospective private donor who went to HBS decides to fund my degree.