asdfasdf Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 I plan to get my mpa and specialize in intl dev and nonprofit management. I've been accepted to several programs but the most generous offer (full tuition) comes from a school that has a great nonprofit management program but in terms of intl dev, i'm not so sure. i guess i'll have to wait to see when i visit the school and hear back from ppl i've emailed at the program. how about you guys? what if your top choice gives you little or no money? will you take a fully funded 2nd or 3rd choice over it? especially with the economy and apps on the rise this year, i think i may be tempted to just take the offer and try to get as much out of the program as possible. if a school offers you a lot doesn't that mean they also think you woudl be a great fit for their program and they also believe they could offer you the kinds of opportunities you're seeking? i guess im pretty confused right now. i know after grad school i def dont want a lot of debt bc of the field i plan of going into so i guess getting this degree for free seems like the most logical conclusion.... any thoughts? they would be much appreciated!
Cornell07 Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Let's just say, if you don't want a free ride, can I take it? If your goal in the long run is to do something other than private sector, take the free ride.
slothrop99 Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Let's just say, if you don't want a free ride, can I take it? If your goal in the long run is to do something other than private sector, take the free ride. Great advice. It's not worth the massive debt when you top out at $60k/yr in the public sector. Cheers to goin' to school for free!!
escincau Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 ^^^ I'm in agreement with Cornell07. I think for people who are serious about entering the non-profit world or government service, it's probably best to go to a slightly less renowned school if you get signficant funding than have to pay 80K in debt. Its not law school... That is, unless your independently weatlhy...in which case go with the name.
thewaitinggame09 Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 I plan to get my mpa and specialize in intl dev and nonprofit management. I've been accepted to several programs but the most generous offer (full tuition) comes from a school that has a great nonprofit management program but in terms of intl dev, i'm not so sure. i guess i'll have to wait to see when i visit the school and hear back from ppl i've emailed at the program. how about you guys? what if your top choice gives you little or no money? will you take a fully funded 2nd or 3rd choice over it? especially with the economy and apps on the rise this year, i think i may be tempted to just take the offer and try to get as much out of the program as possible. if a school offers you a lot doesn't that mean they also think you woudl be a great fit for their program and they also believe they could offer you the kinds of opportunities you're seeking? i guess im pretty confused right now. i know after grad school i def dont want a lot of debt bc of the field i plan of going into so i guess getting this degree for free seems like the most logical conclusion.... any thoughts? they would be much appreciated! TAKE the free ride in this day and age (economy wise) especially if other schools next year dont have money to give. But definitely go visit the campus if you have not done so yet. The money that you would have used for debt can be used for future investments (house, vacaction).
dngo Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Money is my #1 consideration. It'll be hard though, turning down your dream school for a "lower" school for financial reasons. You think- how much more is going to my dream school worth? Depending on the answer to that, you've got your answer. I'm planning on sitting down with all the financial info from every school, estimate how much I'd have to borrow to go to each school, then find their average salary upon graduation, and how much you'd need to earn to make loan payments and to sustain yourself at the lifestyle you want. I think I'd be willing to sacrifice a little (borrow a little more) to attend my dream school- how much more...who knows.
sisepuede Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Money is my #1 consideration. It'll be hard though, turning down your dream school for a "lower" school for financial reasons. You think- how much more is going to my dream school worth? Depending on the answer to that, you've got your answer. I'm planning on sitting down with all the financial info from every school, estimate how much I'd have to borrow to go to each school, then find their average salary upon graduation, and how much you'd need to earn to make loan payments and to sustain yourself at the lifestyle you want. I think I'd be willing to sacrifice a little (borrow a little more) to attend my dream school- how much more...who knows. we're planning on a little excel spreadsheet fest of our own when all of the decisions and aid stuff finally comes in, to try to figure out exactly the exact same things, dngo. one thing i was wondering is if anyone has come across any aid or repayment calculators online related to either paying for grad school in general or more specifically for loans under the new federal repayment program for public interest work? i know a couple of the law schools have them to help law students see what they would actually have to pay back under their specific public interest loan forgiveness programs. if you've seen something like that lemme know pls.
firefly85 Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Money is definitely going to be a big factor for me. Luckily I didn't have one dream school so that makes it easier for me to turn down places if I get accepted but no funding. Then again without hugely strong preferences toward one school or another it may be harder to decide if I get similar offers from multiple schools! Of course if money is no object take the school that best fits your interests and has the best ranking. Unfortunately I don't think that's the case for most of us! Hopefully I'll get the funding info from all of my schools soon so I can work on a decision, I feel like I'm still just speculating without having all of the information.
asdfasdf Posted March 17, 2009 Author Posted March 17, 2009 thanks yall! i really appreciate the advice. seriously. i think what im more concerned about is if the school can offer me opportunities to get an internship abroad or job overseas after graduation. (i dont have much relevant work exp abroad) at the same time tho, i think if i try hard enough, i can find SOMETHING you know?? still waiting to hear back from one more program which might give me some $ as well...we shall see. thanks again and good luck to all in this crazy process!
PeteZahut Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Funding is the "deal or no deal" factor for me. If I don't get anything significant from the schools I've applied to (I'm not willing to pay or take out loans more than around $50k for the entire program), I'll just stick with my current job and re-apply next year (which will give me a chance to add work experience and re-take the GREs and/or GMATs)...
mothernorth Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 thanks yall! i really appreciate the advice. seriously. i think what im more concerned about is if the school can offer me opportunities to get an internship abroad or job overseas after graduation. (i dont have much relevant work exp abroad) at the same time tho, i think if i try hard enough, i can find SOMETHING you know?? still waiting to hear back from one more program which might give me some $ as well...we shall see. thanks again and good luck to all in this crazy process! Hey ! Go where you can pay the least ! As long as you go to a solid program that you like, it's what you make of it that will shape the rest of your career. Yes, you will find opportunities abroad through your school or by yourself, as you said if you try hard enough you can do it either way. If two schools offer similar packages, maybe try to go for the school with a more "known" name overseas, otherwise, don't worry about it too much and save money while getting a great grad degree. Good lucky.
saisonsaparis Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 It's a big deal for me, especially considering I'm fresh out of undergrad and already have $20K in debt from that. I've only heard back from two programs regarding funding: one with a very nice package (a pretty good program...not the *best* rank-wise...but a GREAT network and lots of opportunities) and the other a "dream" school of sorts with zero funding. Thus, the "dream" school is cut. Still waiting on funding from three other programs but, to be honest, my expectations are quite low. I'm choosing happiness and fulfillment over making money in law or the private sector; I don't want to dig myself financially into too deep a hole before I even get my life started!
stigMPA Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 I think it's all a matter of perspective. Is your dream to work at [insert major NGO or three-letter federal agency here] or do you want to just make a difference in the public/nonprofit sphere? One path hardly precludes the other, but a diploma from a top 5 program will make realizing the first dream easier. For those hell-bent on this path, the debt is an investment in their dream job. And that's fine. But if the second path sounds more like it there is no need for you to drown in debt to attend an elite program. You won't have a hard time finding accredited MPA/MPA programs that will do a bang-up job preparing you.
irishpg10 Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Money was a big factor for me, but of the three I'm looking at the most now, it looks the amount of debt I will be taking on will be about equal. With that in mind, what do people think is a reasonable amount of debt to take on in order to get a master's in international relations from a top 10 program? does the $40,000 to $50,000 range seem reasonable?
s800x Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Money was a big factor for me, but of the three I'm looking at the most now, it looks the amount of debt I will be taking on will be about equal. With that in mind, what do people think is a reasonable amount of debt to take on in order to get a master's in international relations from a top 10 program? does the $40,000 to $50,000 range seem reasonable? I don't want to take the thread off topic but I see this mentioned quite a lot. What would you say count as top 10 IR programs?
dngo Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 40K-50K sounds reasonable to me...I wouldn't want to go over 50K, even for NYU.
40404 Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 I'd say money will be the swing vote for me. At least you could start your career after grad school w/o debt! I'd go for the free ride as well.
linden Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 This is the question I keep revisiting. I know I am not supposed to go into debt for a degree. I know I should jump on the opportunity I have to get out of school debt-free. But, I also feel this funding offer is clouding my judgment. I feel my decision is no longer based on the merits of the program and what it can help me accomplish, but on the bottom line. And although I only applied to programs I would attend, there is a quality difference between the programs. The matter is a simple one for those who have full or generous funding from schools such as WWS and HKS. But, it is harder to decide if you have full funding from a second-tier school or one you are concerned about attending for legitimate reasons. For example, the school that has given me the most generous funding package has a large number of part-time students, and I have heard from full-time students that the part-timers sometimes affect the quality of the class and the discussion. They are simply too overwhelmed and tired after 40 hours of work each week to participate in a class that starts at 6:30 p.m. or to work on a group project on a Thursday evening. Also, it will be harder to establish meaningful relationships with these individuals, relationships that could potentially help me out as a professional later on. Yet, if I attend this school, I get out debt-free. And, yes, I do feel that prestige counts and will help. What you do with your degree is important, but so is where that degree is from. I have been pilloried before for writing that, but people will judge us on where we go to school. The question is, how much is that prestige worth. We have heard from many who would attend a school that would allow them to leave debt-free. I would love to hear from individuals who have decided to pay for that prestige. What is your line of logic? How will you deal with the debt? ridofme 1
thebends1996 Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Just remember, where you went to school may help in getting the first job, but eventually that degree goes to the bottom of your resume. I'm not saying go to a school that has zero reputation in your field, but the perception that only the best jobs goes to those who attend WWS or HKS is absurd. There are plenty of people who attend a highly regarded state school or a supposedly less reputable private school and end up in the same prestigious positions as their big name school counterpart (without the huge price tag). The biggest thing that most people forget is that there is a life after your degree. This life includes buying a house, saving money for retirement, etc. All of these can seriously be derailed with a debt over 50k (which i personally think anything over 30k is a bit ridiculous, but I know it's difficult to go anywhere with an amount in that area). This is especially true for those going into public service or non profit work.
cerise Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 I mentioned this before on a different thread (and it was totally off-topic in that thread, sorry about that!) but I would seriously urge thinking carefully about how the debt you take on now will affect your life choices later. The issue isn't money, it's freedom. Yes, you may be giving up some intangible benefits if you choose a less prestigious school. There may be some really wonderful things that you'll miss out on. But if you're truly motivated, you'll still be able to do good things and get a lot out of any legitimate program. And more importantly: when you get out, you'll be able to do exactly what you want to do. You won't need to turn down an exciting position because the salary isn't high enough to cover your loans. You'll be able to take time off if you need to, do cool volunteer stuff, and generally take advantage of all kinds of opportunities that just won't be feasible if you've got these giant loan obligations. Obviously, everyone needs to make their own choice, and this is not one-size-fits-all advice. But as someone who took out serious loans for undergrad, I can tell you that it's hard to really understand how debt affects your life--both psychologically and in more concrete ways--until you're actually living with it.
younglions Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 The issue isn't money, it's freedom. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.... This simple sentence sums up in entirety my view on this subject.
linden Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.... This simple sentence sums up in entirety my view on this subject. Ahhh, but you can also argue that a better school also buys you a different type of freedom. Maybe you won't be able to afford to take off the semester to volunteer in Brazil. But, if you want to work in Brazil the name Harvard will make it easier to find a job than some of the schools some of us are considering. I know, I know. It's an endless debate. I just wish I had your certainty, cerise. I feel really lost. I have less than a month to make a choice, and I still don't have all the info I need to make this choice.
Stephen33 Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Linden As someone who has spent a good deal of time in the workforce (and has been on the employer's side of the hiring decision numerous times), I think it is important not to over-estimate the impact of a degree from a "name" institution. Other factors being equal,the "name" may give you something of an edge in obtaining an interview, but that is about it. A degree from a good university, coupled with an excellent cover letter and a strong interview will overcome any reputational gap quite quickly in most instances, I can assure you. If finances are close between two schools, reputation might be a legitimate deciding factor, but otherwise, I am doubtful. I went through this process last year (I am in the first year of an MPP program), so I can empathize. Good luck with your decision.
policywife Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 As someone who works in international development for the USG, I would direct you to a similar thread (is the name worth the cost?) discussion in the "Hearing from KSG" thread. I affirm whoever said that out here in the real world they haven't seen an overwhelming favoring of candidates from the top Ivy schools. Go to a good school, work hard, get in-the-field experience (very very important), learn a language and you'll be just fine.
cerise Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Linden, I feel your frustration, honestly, especially when it comes to not knowing all of your options yet. And I'm not going to say definitively that one choice is better than another. Once you have all of the information, you'll make the best choice you can, and I'm sure that good things will come for you no matter what. I just wanted to share my experience, because little compares to the frustration of being trapped by your financial situation. It's hard to really understand that feeling in the abstract. I do also want to agree with the comments made about the difference that a name-brand degree makes in the hiring process. I can't speak for the for-profit world, but in my experience the edge that it gives you is slight to non-existent. Employers want to see evidence that you take initiative, that you're dedicated and enthusiastic about what they do, and that you'll be a good fit at their organization. It doesn't take a name-brand school to demonstrate those factors-- it depends much more on what you did during your schooling than where you went. The name, the alumni network, etc-- all of those things can be helpful, of course, but if you're really interested and motivated you'll find that there are opportunities for you even without those advantages. Again, I'm not saying that there's one right decision. I'm just saying that there's more than one way to be successful.
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