Am I nuts for thinking of turning down Denver-Korbel with 100% funding for SAIS

[iamdanthemanstan]

I was finally ready to make a decision and go to SAIS when Denver e-mailed me this morning offering a full tuition scholarship and an RA position if I wanted it. Now I don't know what to do. I really like what I know of SAIS' program. They have a great China program, my biggest area of interest, and all the rest of their classes seem really interesting as well. I like the economics focus, I'd never taken much economics, but I've been more and more interested in it since I graduated and SAIS seems to offer a good into to economics even for people with little basis in it. SAIS also has some really interesting professors who teach American Foreign Policy my next biggest area of interest. Being in DC would be good too with so many conferences and lectures held their all the time.

 

But the difference in price over two years is about $95,000+ dollars with the money Denver offered me. Denver doesn't have any where near the reputation SAIS does but it seems like a good school. Korbel has some good China stuff including one professor who is a big deal in China studies. They seem to be big on Security Studies, which I'm sort of interested in.

 

Making things more complicated I'm thinking about pursuing a PhD after a MA. I wouldn't get into a top PhD program now so I figured getting an MA would help out a lot. In the end I want to go to SAIS, the program seems great, I just don't know how I can turn down that much money.

[wohohow]

We're in the same boat - I got the same last minute email on Thursday. My decision was between Korbel and Georgetown, and after a bunch of soul-searching (as much soul-searching that can be done with almost 0 time to consider) is to go ahead with Georgetown.

 

A couple of things that I considered, that you didn't mention:

1. How strong is your cohort at Denver? I don't know about your background, but I'm a couple of years out of undergrad with little field experience. It strikes me as odd that I'd be a good choice for the Sié, which really made me second guess the quality of the other students attending. I don't need to be the biggest fish in a small pond, I need to be where I'm stretched the most. Georgetown fits that bill much better.

2. I don't intend to go on to my PhD, so with this being the last degree on my resumé this is my last chance to take advantage of any school's reputation to propel me forward career-wise. Going to Denver might not be a bad deal at all since this isn't the case for you: finish your MA, get some research under your belt, and then head on up to the Ivy League if you want to (I'm thinking Paula Broadwell here). 

[ridofme]

If you want to go on for a PhD, that's almost going to be impossible with 95k debt. The interest that will accrue on that while you'll be in your PhD will be unfathomable. 

 

Did you have a chance to visit Korbel? That really is the best way to assess whether or not you could be happy at a school. When do you have to decide by?

[iamdanthemanstan]

Unfortunately I can't visit anywhere since I'm living in China now. And I have to decided by the 22nd. I had mostly made up my mind for SAIS but Korbel just offered this much money. If I go for a PhD right from SAIS the interest on the debt would certainly be significant but it wouldn't be unpayable in the long term, just a lot.

[dqhdly]

Hey, I think you can use the Sie fellowship to negotiate with SAIS, and see if they could increase funding.

[JFactor]

I turned down one of the Sie Fellowships for SAIS but I got some funding from SAIS so the difference in money wasn't as big as you're talking about (although still nothing to laugh at). Korbel called me in early February and let me know about the offer and I was very surprised. I got a great vibe from all the people I talked to/emailed with (wasn't able to visit) but the fact that so many people are turning down the SIe Fellowship and the fact that someone like me seemed like a lock for it raises some questions. Surely this means the quality of the student body just isn't as exceptional as it is elsewhere and I mean this with no disrespect at all (I'm not in any way better than the students there). But I don't think it's controversial to say that even though Korbel is a very good school (especially when it comes to Security Studies), it can't directly compete with the top programs in any area except the money they offer.

 

The decision was not a no-brainer for me whatsoever, but in the end all the other things that SAIS offers outweighed the money of Korbel. Being European and being interested in possibly working in Europe one day (maybe in not so distant future), SAIS offers much better prospects for me. And that's just one example of the reasons I chose SAIS. Another is that I can take really in-depth economics courses and SAIS has the brand to help me market that knowledge etc.

 

So long story short - if you don't get any additional funding from SAIS, the gap in the money the schools offer is very big and you definitely should consider Korbel long and hard. Sure, I think you give up a little on every area (educational experience, networking, brand name etc.) but then you have to evaluate how significant these differences are in terms of your career goals. That's all I can say really.

 

Bottom line - SAIS isn't a magical program far superior to Korbel but it is a very solid program that is justifiably considered one of the best. Korbel is good and can be great depending on your goals and focus area.

[iamdanthemanstan]

I had been leaning towards Korbel, going to SAIS would probably end up with me having 80k+ in debt but now I'm not so sure. I called one top people in China Studies area at Korbel and said that Korbel was good, but he was also very complimentary about SAIS. He said that if it was AU or GW he say take the money and go to Korbel, but for SAIS he wasn't so sure. SAIS does have a great China program, and I'm interested in the economic stuff too, but I'm not 100% sure about my IR interests overall. Korbel is more into Security Studies, which is what this scholarship deals with, and I think that area can be interesting also, but it wasn't what I'd had in mind. Man this decision is killing me.

[scholl43]

I don't know your background or potential safety net (parents being the most common), but if you lack any real savings, I'd be extremely cautious to go to JHU.  I'm sure it's a great school, but $80k+ is a lot to pay off.  Is that just $80k in loans or is that what you'd pay after X years?  Make sure you plug your loan amounts into a calculator to see what monthly payments would look like and then look at the potential salaries you'll be pulling in in your first few years.

Option JHU:  You get a great education and meet a lot of people in DC during school, developing a solid network in a city that you will likely work in.  You will also likely have a lower standard of living for the first few (minimum) years out of grad school.

Option Korbel:  You walk away with little debt, giving you the freedom to go work at lower paying jobs (or no pay) to get inside somewhere you really want to be.

 

If you want to do a PhD after this degree, I don't think you'd be able to do that until middle age based on the debt load from JHU.  Academic jobs are in high demand so don't let some dream professorship at some dream school lead you down a path to high debt and working at the University of Minnesota - Duluth (no offense Duluth).  I say this because I know quite a few young scholars who are finishing PhDs, in post doc, or young profs and they're all a bit terrified and depressed by their situation.  When I mentioned that I was applying to grad school a couple immediately told me not to do a PhD.

[ridofme]

If I go for a PhD right from SAIS the interest on the debt would certainly be significant but it wouldn't be unpayable in the long term, just a lot.

 

I think you need to look at a loan calculator. Just assuming 80k in loans at an average interest rate of 7.35% and loan fees of 2.5% (assuming that you take out the first 41k in Stafford and the rest in Grad Plus), that gives you a monthly repayment of $967.55 over 10 years. Now start calculating the interest that would accrue while you're in your PhD...

 

I'm not one to say that it is never appropriate to take on more debt for a program with a better fit, better employment outcomes, better location, etc. SAIS does have an incredible reputation, and if it were a difference of 20 or 40k,  and you knew you wanted to work in DC after graduation, I would probably say go for it. But 95k is an enormous amount of money, one that will impact your standard of living for decades, and if your goal is to pursue a PhD, it is especially hard to justify.

 

I might take a previous poster's advice and see if you can negotiate with SAIS...

[hesadork]

My opinion, for what it's worth:  this is not a tough call.  The offer from Denver is extraordinary; graduating debt-free with give you the flexibility to follow your dreams post grad school (including, possibly, doctoral study) irrespective of how those dreams pay.  That freedom is worth a great deal.  Go to Denver and blow the roof off the place and you'll set yourself up for a terrific career, wherever it takes you.

 

I have plenty of friends who turned down sweet funding packages in favor of prestige.  They are all, to a person, bitter about their decision.  

[aecp]

PLEASE accept the Korbel offer. 

 

95k differential not even including the income form the RA position makes this an easy choice.  Someone once told me: "graduate school is what you make of it".  Therefore, I believe you can achieve all you wish to at Korbel if you are determined...and you can do so and possibly even make a "profit" from your graduate program as opposed to being in debt.

[iamdanthemanstan]

Just to conclude this post in case anyone is wondering, I'm going to Korbel. SAIS might be the better school but Korbel is a good school with some notable professors and the 95+ thousand more is just not worth it for SAIS. On top of that Korbel offered an RA position as well which sounds really interesting. Thanks for all the advice.

[Burnt Orange]

Congratulations! You are making the right decision. Be happy and enjoy graduate school. It's awesome...but don't take game theory. Ha!

[mrgreen102]

No, you're not.  Prestige is useless if you are buried in debt.

 

I am going to a really cheap IA regional focus programs this Fall for a similar reason.