Masters then phd...help?

[HemustBeMagic]

So my adviser told me today she thinks I would be better suited to go from a masters to a PhD. A little bummed about this but I'm not trying to let it bog me down mainly because deep down I know it's best.  I want to go into Clinical.

 

So, now that I'm going down the masters track I don't know what to do and my adviser just keeps saying 'check gradschools.com'. So I have a few questions

 

1. Is it smarter to go to a masters program IN clinical (few and far between it seems) or do I simply need a masters program in any psychology with hopefully a focusin Clinical? For example, Boston U has a MA in Psychology, but you can focus on Clinlcal. A few other schools (American, for example) have an actual Clinical Masters; but schools that are well name and simply not 'for profit' that have these degrees are hard to find. A MA in Psych is more common, but will that just be wasted time? Do i specifically NEED a Masters in clinical to get into a clinical PhD program?
2. I know there is probably no number, and it still requires work, but does a Masters actually help?According to my adviser I'm probably not competitive enough for PhD with my stats (see below), hence they suggest the Masters. If I do well in the masters program does it actually help or do admissions boards only see 'oh he couldn't make it in undergrad so he HAD to do a masters'.
3. Masters generally do not have funding like PhDs...am I going to have to go into outrageous debt? My family isn't well off, being mostly elderly and sick...thus a PhD was very interesting to me because it's funded. Im wary of going and donig a Masters becasue I dont want to be in outrageous debt. How do I at least cut the debt down or are there funded masters?
4. Are there programs that allow you once you're done your masters to transfer right into your phd? Boston U says you have to apply using a seperate application which is fine, I just wanted to know if schools have a 'slide in' program. I know a lot of the time you're taking your classes with other PhD students so it doesn't matter much especailly if you intend to go to that school anyway, but I'm simply really worried I bust my ass doing my Masters and my undergrad GPA will still prevent me from getting in anyway...AND I'll be in debt.
5. Is there anyone out there in a masters program, or have went from Masters > PhD, who knows of some good schools or programs? I know a few schools I want to go to for my PhD and i'm already consdiering Boston U, American for my masters but I would like some more guided help if possible.

 

My stats are

Psychology (BA), Clinical and Developmental Certificates, Honors Track, Psi Chi Member

GPA: 3.3

Major GPA: 3.8

1 publication

GRE (v) 168, (q) 166

2 labs; 1 neuro lab for 4 semesters and 1 summer lab at Northeastern social sciences lab

LoRs from both labs and 1 teacher

African American Male

[Quant_Liz_Lemon]

Questions: Is your publication a first author publication?

What calibre of school did you attend?

 

Your GPA is a bit low for clinical PhDs straight out.... you may want to listen to your supervisor.

[HemustBeMagic]

I had no question about doing a masters. I'm a tad upset that I have to do it but I'm going to do it. My questions were geared towards not nullying the masters, but advice ABOUT it.

 

101 school in nation

medium sized research school

3rd author.

[juilletmercredi]

Your advisor sounds like he's getting kickbacks from a master's program or from gradschools.com.

 

First of all, I disagree with your advisor.  Your CUMULATIVE GPA is a bit low, but clinical programs don't care if you've got a C in freshman English or that painting class you took.  They care about your psychology grades, and your psychology GPA is quite high.  Your GRE scores are really high and you have a solid amount of research experience for being an undergrad (2 years in one lab and a summer REU program).  You'd actually be a fairly strong candidate for any other PhD in psychology aside from clinical.  When I got into my social psychology program (less competitive than clinical but still competitive) I had a 3.4 cumulative, 3.6 psychology, 2.5 years of research experience and 1 summer program, no publications. 

 

My recommendation?  DO NOT waste your money on a masters.  What you need is research experience.

 

Most successful clinical applicants work for 2-3 years as a lab manager or research coordinator.  You can find these jobs in university departments - psychology, of course, but also medical schools (neurology, psychiatry), business schools, education schools and schools of public health.  Now is the time of year to start looking for those jobs, as most of the current lab managers just found out that they are in somewhere, have given their notice and the PIs are looking for lab managers to replace them.

 

Or you could get a non-academic research job for 2 years at your department of health, an educational testing agency (like ETS or ACT), a market research firm, etc.  Just as long as it's research related - that will do more for you than an MA.  Much much more.

 

To answer your questions:

 

1. If you do want to get a masters, then no, it does not need to be in clinical psychology.  Honestly, I would really recommend doing a masters in mental health counseling or an MSW.  That way, you can get licensed to counsel and get actual counseling experience, in case you want to take a break before you return or stop at a PhD.  A master's in clinical psychology does not prepare you for counseling.  (BTW, Teachers College has an MA in clinical psychology, and they're a very respected program.  They also have an MA in psychological counseling that will allow you to counsel with your MA only.)

 

If you really want to do a research-related program that won't license you, you can get an MA in general psychology or experimental psychology - that's totally fine.

 

2. Well, it can help if you have a low GPA.  But otherwise, no, not necessarily.  It's your research experience (and, for scientist-practitioner programs, your clinical/counseling related volunteer or paid experiences) that will get you into these programs.

 

3. Yes, if you do a master's.  They are expensive and there is little funding.  That is another reason that I recommend not doing a master's but getting a job as a lab manager/research coordinator.  The one way to minimize costs is to go to a public university in a state where you are a resident.

 

4. Not really.  I think TC allows you to do that, but their PhD program is not well-funded.  That's always a danger with MA in psych programs, that you won't get in and/or that you'll still take 5-6 years to graduate anyway.

[MsDarjeeling]

I think your adviser brings up a good point that doing a Master's first is a viable option, but I don't think that means you shouldn't apply to any PhD programs.  If you know where you want to do your PhD then why not apply and apply to one or two Master's programs as a plan b.  My stats were very similar to yours, I had research experience, I applied to both Phd and Master's programs, and I wound up doing plan b.  Was I thrilled?  Not really, but it beat sitting around for another year waiting to reapply.  Perhaps you will fair better than I did =)

 

Something else to consider with a Master's degree (and this is based off what I learned while researching Clinical Psych PhDs) is that 1) a Master's in Clinical Psych is mostly useless because it is does not allow you to earn a license to practice.  2) a Master's should be something that you can specialize in for your Clinical training.  For example: If you want to specialize in the lgbtqi community, counseling/psychotherapy, children/adolescents, neuropsychology, health psychology, etc then you can target your Master's to one of those groups.  Be sure to incorporate research training and teaching experience as well.  Depending on the school you end up doing your Master's you may have to seek out these opportunities entirely on your own.  3)  if you're going to get a Master's in general or experimental psych and want to customize your program to your own interests be prepared to have to explain to everyone, every single time, exactly what your degree is.  There's a huge difference between having a degree that people in the industry instantly understand and one that makes one wonder what exactly you studied.   

 

Does a Master's help?  Yes if you do well in the program and obtain new skils and/or improve skills you learned in undergrad.  What won't help is if you earn a Master's and your gpa/gre is lower than undergrad and you don't do internships, teaching, or research.  Another upside to a Master's first is it can allow you to earn decent money on the side.  I know a number of people that went this route and are now in full time PhD programs.  Instead of spending a few hours a week working some crappy job for minimum wage they're teaching 1-2 classes at a community college.  Some of them even teach a full course load during the summer if they don't have their own classes to do.

 

Speaking of funding....how will you pay for your Master's you ask?  You're right the school generally doesn't offer funding, so your best bet is to find a program that is designed for working adults, enroll full time (I mean at least 12 units per term), and keep your day job.  I've done this and while it isn't thrilling to have classes at nights or on weekends, it's only 2 years and I have good time management so I'm doing fine.  You can apply for scholarships/grants, but accept the fact that you may have to take out some loans if you want to finish in a timely manner.  At the PhD level make sure you're funded so that the end of your borrowing is with your Master's degree.  As for how much debt you might have at the Master's level?  A state school is going to be much cheaper so look their first.  Regardless you need to outline a budget, have a clear graduation plan, reduce your expenses as much as possible, and only borrow exactly what you need.   

[hm5400a]

I suggest you look through this thread for funded masters programs: 

 

Good luck! 

[Engali]

Hey,

 

I went through something a bit similar and I made it into a very competitive PhD program.  It's not in Clinical, but I think I have some insights that may be helpful:

 

1)  As already mentioned, there's very little you can do with a master's in Clinical Psychology.  I personally would recommend a general psychology or experimental psychology master's.  The argument against this is that you aren't really trained to do anything besides research, so the practical value of this approach is low if you don't pursue or don't get into a PhD program.  Obviously, the counterargument to that is that research experience is the single most important  factor in you PhD application that you have control over now; doing a master's that emphasizes building research skills and exposes you to the research process is invaluable for this reason.  However, I actually did a master's in the specialization I'm doing my PhD in (I/O), so it worked out for me even though I didn't go into a general/experimental psychology master's program.  Whatever you do, make sure it's cheap and that they have a *requirement* that you do a *empirical thesis* that involves the entire formal process you would go through in doing a thesis during a PhD program (i.e. adviser, thesis committee, etc.)  That way you may actually be able to use it to fulfill the req for the PhD program in the future.  Note what I emphasized and make sure it hits all those criteria.  

 

2.  Frankly, it did for me, but it may not for you.  Research experience is by far the most valuable thing and you need to focus on this regardless of what you do next.  That may mean doing a master's and it may not, depending on the opportunities available to you.  From my experience, it's extremely hard to get really anyone to let you help them with research if you can't demonstrate that you already have a lot of experience doing it (damn chicken/egg problem), so the master's was worth it for me to have research opportunities.  Still, there weren't as many opportunities as I would have liked, but that's just the nature of most master's programs that aren't general/experimental psychology master's.  Doing a master's did give me the chance to show I can hack it in graduate courses.  My undergraduate GPA and even psychology GPA were much worse than yours.  Granted, I went to fairly well-know liberal arts school that cast my otherwise abysmal GPA in a better light, but it's low even by master's admission standards.  I pulled a 3.96 GPA in my master's and graduated summa cum laude.  My professor in the PhD program  will be starting this fall said the master's GPA definitely put some of his concerns about my previous academic performance to rest and displayed passion and commitment to the field.

 

3.  You can find relatively cheap master's programs and some are even funded.  If you can, work while you're doing it.  Seriously.  It's really the debt from just living expenses that will kill you in the long run. I would say if you can keep the debt at 20k-25k max from start to finish then it may be worth it assuming your undergraduate debt is the national average of about 25k.  Do not exceed what you think you can reasonably expect first year working full time out of your PhD program, which should be about 50-60k depending on region.  Having said that, you're banking on getting into a PhD program from this.  Be careful.

 

4.  I dunno, do research.  If you don't want to this field is not for you lol .  It's a gamble, but it worked out for me as far as I can tell.  Now for the PhD itself!

 

5.  Where I went is not relevant to your situation.  Do some research.

 

The only other thing I would mention is to kill the GREs.  I got a 1450 (720 V, 730 Q, 5.0 W) and I'm pretty sure it helped me stand out.  I also did the Psych GREs and got a 760 (94%) and I think that might have helped.  The point is to figure out what are the most important factors that are in your control, figure out how to maximize your efforts by focusing them on the most important things, and then get to work.

 

 

So my adviser told me today she thinks I would be better suited to go from a masters to a PhD. A little bummed about this but I'm not trying to let it bog me down mainly because deep down I know it's best.  I want to go into Clinical.

 

So, now that I'm going down the masters track I don't know what to do and my adviser just keeps saying 'check gradschools.com'. So I have a few questions

 

1. Is it smarter to go to a masters program IN clinical (few and far between it seems) or do I simply need a masters program in any psychology with hopefully a focusin Clinical? For example, Boston U has a MA in Psychology, but you can focus on Clinlcal. A few other schools (American, for example) have an actual Clinical Masters; but schools that are well name and simply not 'for profit' that have these degrees are hard to find. A MA in Psych is more common, but will that just be wasted time? Do i specifically NEED a Masters in clinical to get into a clinical PhD program?
2. I know there is probably no number, and it still requires work, but does a Masters actually help?According to my adviser I'm probably not competitive enough for PhD with my stats (see below), hence they suggest the Masters. If I do well in the masters program does it actually help or do admissions boards only see 'oh he couldn't make it in undergrad so he HAD to do a masters'.
3. Masters generally do not have funding like PhDs...am I going to have to go into outrageous debt? My family isn't well off, being mostly elderly and sick...thus a PhD was very interesting to me because it's funded. Im wary of going and donig a Masters becasue I dont want to be in outrageous debt. How do I at least cut the debt down or are there funded masters?
4. Are there programs that allow you once you're done your masters to transfer right into your phd? Boston U says you have to apply using a seperate application which is fine, I just wanted to know if schools have a 'slide in' program. I know a lot of the time you're taking your classes with other PhD students so it doesn't matter much especailly if you intend to go to that school anyway, but I'm simply really worried I bust my ass doing my Masters and my undergrad GPA will still prevent me from getting in anyway...AND I'll be in debt.
5. Is there anyone out there in a masters program, or have went from Masters > PhD, who knows of some good schools or programs? I know a few schools I want to go to for my PhD and i'm already consdiering Boston U, American for my masters but I would like some more guided help if possible.

 

My stats are

Psychology (BA), Clinical and Developmental Certificates, Honors Track, Psi Chi Member

GPA: 3.3

Major GPA: 3.8

1 publication

GRE (v) 168, (q) 166

2 labs; 1 neuro lab for 4 semesters and 1 summer lab at Northeastern social sciences lab

LoRs from both labs and 1 teacher

African American Male