should i even bother?

[dejectednconfused]

hi all! first post, because i really wanted some help from people before i just called the schools up and asked them this myself

 

i've really been procrastinating getting everything in order for these december deadlines. and i just read an email from a former teacher i asked for a letter of recommendation telling me that my gpa is not high enough (2.5) and i dont have enough research experience to really have a leg up on the competition.

 

i knew all this, but i was hoping some really great gre scores would make them not pay THAT much attention to my low gpa and my lack of research, as research is not really my interest, but clinical counseling/therapy is.

 

so even if i got say, a 155/160 on my gre, would it still be a waste of time and money to apply to the schools i've chosen. should i just go and pay the money to get my master's first?

 

appreciate the help

 

schools im applying to:

northern illinois u

loyola

university of missouri st. louis

university of louisville

wayne state

eastern michigan

[PsychGirl1]

Your GPA and lack of research will be major barriers. MAJOR barriers. Even if your GRE scores are competitive.

 

At this point, it's pretty late in the application cycle to decide not to push forward. I'd probably add a few master's programs to your list (they tend to have later deadlines)- some funded, some unfunded- and then see where you end up at the end of everything, and then make a decision.

 

To be honest, I'd be very surprised if you got into any PhD programs, but stranger things have happened :-D

[randompsychologist]

I agree with PsychGirl1... I know people who were in your position as undergrads and are competitive now. Don't give up but the time isn't now. Good luck! I think you eshoukd start looking for research opportunities.

[Lisa44201]

Yeah, GREs of 155-160 are not that high where they would trump a lack of research experience and a GPA under 3.0. I would strongly suggest applying to Masters programs, particularly where you would have to write a Thesis (as opposed to a seminar paper); that will give you the chance to do some research and hopefully get a stellar grad GPA (3.8 - 4.0).

 

If you're not interested in research, and are more interested in clinical/counseling, get a Master's degree. You will need to do research at PhD programs in addition to your clinical experience. Quality PsyDs that will actually prepare you to pass the EPPP exam and obtain a license without costing a small fortune in the process are few and far between; the good ones will also have you doing research, and even the bad ones will have you taking stats classes, if nothing else; bottom line, you need to be able to understand why it is a certain treatment works in some situations but not in others, and that requires being able to read and understand the research literature.

 

In summary: think about what it is you want to do, and if a PhD is necessary for that job.

[dejectednconfused]

Yeah, GREs of 155-160 are not that high where they would trump a lack of research experience and a GPA under 3.0. I would strongly suggest applying to Masters programs, particularly where you would have to write a Thesis (as opposed to a seminar paper); that will give you the chance to do some research and hopefully get a stellar grad GPA (3.8 - 4.0).

 

If you're not interested in research, and are more interested in clinical/counseling, get a Master's degree. You will need to do research at PhD programs in addition to your clinical experience. Quality PsyDs that will actually prepare you to pass the EPPP exam and obtain a license without costing a small fortune in the process are few and far between; the good ones will also have you doing research, and even the bad ones will have you taking stats classes, if nothing else; bottom line, you need to be able to understand why it is a certain treatment works in some situations but not in others, and that requires being able to read and understand the research literature.

 

In summary: think about what it is you want to do, and if a PhD is necessary for that job.

 

 

i want to be a child psychologist. do some case studies, maybe write one or 2 books, but i want to counsel children and help them with their problems. i've always wanted a doctorate, a psyd because not as much research but it also costs like $50k per year. i graduated undergrad with no debt and i want to try to keep it that way or as small as possible. a phd because i thought research experience would be good but also because its way more cost effective.

 

 

 

i really dont want to spend so much in application fees to apply for a program i wont get into. but i also dont want to miss out on getting into a program because i didnt apply

 

another teacher said i should go over their application requirements and use that information to make my decision. i may just apply to doctorate and master's programs

 

thanks for the help, still got some decisions to make

[PsychGirl1]

If you don't want to do research, do NOT do a PhD program. You are going to have 5-6 years of your life being miserable- and you will face major barriers to getting in with a lack of research, strong GPA, etc. You might need to take 2-3 years to prepare to even get into one.

 

If you want to do counseling and case studies, I strongly suggest a master's instead. Yes, you do pay tuition, but the program is shorter, and you'll start earning money faster. In a PhD program, you don't always have a big enough stipend to cover ALL costs of living, and it's not always guaranteed for the whole time. PhD funding is usually tied to research grants, so it means at the schools where you get funding, there will be a lot of research going on.

 

What I would do if you I were you:

- Apply to a few research-based master's

- Apply to a few clinically-focused master's, like master of counseling, MSW, etc- whatever closely aligns with what you want to do

- Apply to a few lower tier PhD programs that are heavily clinically focused

- Start figuring out your career goals and back-up plans

 

Yes, even if you don't get in anywhere, it will cost a decent amount of money, but you will learn a LOT from the application cycle (about what you want to do, about what you DON'T want to do, things you like about schools, things you don't like, how to make yourself more competitive, etc.). Not to mention that it's already November, and I assume you already have letter writers lined up, transcripts sent places, etc.

[MsDarjeeling]

The others have given you great advice so I'll direct most of my comments to the bolded statement.

 

 

i want to be a child psychologist. do some case studies, maybe write one or 2 books, but i want to counsel children and help them with their problems. i've always wanted a doctorate, a psyd because not as much research but it also costs like $50k per year. i graduated undergrad with no debt and i want to try to keep it that way or as small as possible. a phd because i thought research experience would be good but also because its way more cost effective.

 

 

 

i really dont want to spend so much in application fees to apply for a program i wont get into. but i also dont want to miss out on getting into a program because i didnt apply

 

another teacher said i should go over their application requirements and use that information to make my decision. i may just apply to doctorate and master's programs

 

thanks for the help, still got some decisions to make

 

Ok so you know what you want to do, which is a huge step.  Yes there are several routes to get you there.  You know you don't want to do research so a PhD, while perhaps cost effective, will make you miserable.  If you're miserable you're more likely to drop out and what will you do with half a degree?  You can't just transfer those classes to another program and what you did complete may not translate to a Master's degree that would help you do what you want to do.

 

I agree that you shouldn't waste money applying to schools you wouldn't get into.  It would also be a waste of money to apply to PhD programs, when research isn't what you want to do.

 

I heavily researched PhD and PsyD options and I agree the cost of a PsyD is a huge turn off because they aren't funded.  After talking with a number of current students and professors I learned that some (I was looking primarily in California, so other states may differ) of the PsyD programs are designed so that you get your MFT/LPC/LCSW/MSW (which they work toward depends on the program) on the way.  Their logic is with that you can be working part time and making much more than minimum wage while you finish the PsyD.  Also if for any reason you decide not to finish the PsyD you can exit with your Master's level license and move on to a decent career. 

 

So if you don't find a PsyD program that is designed in this manner you could instead just enter a Master's only program for the MFT/LPC/LCSW/MSW, whichever you decide is the best fit for you.  A number of Master's only programs are designed for working adults so you could work your way through and borrow less.  Or understand that borrowing 2-3 years worth of tuition is far cheaper than 5-6 years of tuition.  You may also be able to participate in a program that offers partial loan forgiveness in exchange for you working with a certain population or for a certain organization (we have programs like this in California, but other states may differ). Then if after that you want more you can go for the PsyD.

[gellert]

I agree with others; a MSW sounds much more along the lines of what you are interested in doing, especially if you have no interest in performing research.  And if you have clinical experience, your chances will be better in these programs than in a clinical Ph.D. program.  Clinical psych programs are the most competitive out of all the psych subfields, just as an aside.

Edited November 5, 2013 by gellert