djrg Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 [i didn't find a better place for this post, however, I really wanted to share this article, mods feel free to move the thread if you find a better location for it] Some friend of mine (he is actually a grad student right now) sent me this article a couple of days ago. It is written for my area (Computer Science) however, I feel it really applies to almost all areas... http://vonahn.blogspot.com/2009/03/shou ... chool.html I guess it makes you think before giving your final decision this April the 15th.... I already made my mind, I'll go into grad school... it is kind of a vocation... Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahlan_amnell Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 This article again? I've seen this posted so many times in various places. Honestley, I think the author has a few good points, but overall he just sounds bitter and is trying to scare people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GirlattheHelm Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 There's truth to that article. Students are exploitable - but not so much inside the foundations of graduate school. Undergraduate and college are like bears and honey; it's a ritual rite of passage and so those kids all rush to get into colleges across the country - as without it they seem to fail in the eyes of our culture. Graduate students have to worry about whether or not they're looking for a PhD or Masters and if those options yield to them the best possible options. They have a little less idealistic basin to look into as we do this for more options and we aren't all going to become professors (nor do we want to become professors - but we do want to be experts!). As far as the problem with tenure tracking and becoming a professor these days - that has a lot to do with Universities themselves. Many are finding adjuncts far more appealing - since tenure can entrap bad blood inside a University for a lifetime. The problem is the adjuncts either have to unionize better (which won't happen anytime soon), or something else has to come to a head, forcing a sit down with Universities in order to supply reasonable financial support for adjuncts, rather than abusing them. In addition, the tenure process needs reforming in order to limit the scalliwags who sneak in somehow. But the idealism here is high and nothing will come to a head until A.) Adjuncts are scarce and in high demand. B.) Universities become nice entities rather than juggernauts feeding off the yearly fresh flushing of high school graduates. I'm going to graduate school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djrg Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 This article again? I've seen this posted so many times in various places. Honestley, I think the author has a few good points, but overall he just sounds bitter and is trying to scare people. Loool, Sorry if it is redundant for you! The article was written like a week ago, I don't see how you could have found it in so many places, so fast... but ok... Scaring people? I don't know, I guess the job situation for professors in top school is a reality, and is just something one should consider before entering grad school... Also, I didn't find his tone bitter... He is really happy with his job! He even says is the best job in the world... and I concur with him... @GirlattheHelm good analysis I'm with you on how tenure professors some times abuse of their position in order to do basically nothing.... And how universities are tending more to hire professors just for adjunct positions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasses Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 This article again? I've seen this posted so many times in various places. Honestley, I think the author has a few good points, but overall he just sounds bitter and is trying to scare people. I'm more bugged by the article on the humanities that the CS fella referenced: http://chronicle.com/jobs/news/2009/01/2009013001c.htm. Now that's bitter. It (the humanities article) is so generalizing, too--I understand that the author had a number of misguided perceptions before he started, but I don't identify with a single one of his "early 20s" thoughts; I also completely disagree with his assessment of conditions under which it's "reasonable" to go to graduate school in the humanities ("You are independently wealthy"? Come on. If everyone followed this, so many influential scholars would have never seen the light of day). Not that the author doesn't have decent points, but they're points that any well-informed applicant already knows--and then on top of that, he ruins those decent points with layers of bitter generalizations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahlan_amnell Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Loool, Sorry if it is redundant for you! The article was written like a week ago, I don't see how you could have found it in so many places, so fast... but ok... Scaring people? I don't know, I guess the job situation for professors in top school is a reality, and is just something one should consider before entering grad school... Also, I didn't find his tone bitter... He is really happy with his job! He even says is the best job in the world... and I concur with him... @GirlattheHelm good analysis I'm with you on how tenure professors some times abuse of their position in order to do basically nothing.... And how universities are tending more to hire professors just for adjunct positions... I've seen the article for more than a week, perhaps the blog post was written a week ago, but the article has been since January 30. My comments were about the article, not the blog post. The job situation being bad in academia is hardly news. Sure the current economic situation has made it worse, but as a humanities MA student going on to a Ph.D. I've always known that the job prospects weren't great. I guess the article serves a purpose for those who haven't considered the job market at all, but for most others it's just old news really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinoisellie Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 What an ass! :roll: Maybe people who want to get PhD's don't all want to eventually teach?? Maybe this guy should have taken his english degree and become an editor or writer (instead of being a pansy and feeling "forced" into becoming a professor - dude. think for yourself. for once. jeez.) Since he is so upset at having one - he should just give his PhD to me! I get this kind of stuff all the time - of course its difficult getting a job after a PhD and NO, we are NOT putting 2-5 years of living in a cardboard box working our butts off just to "hide from life/recession/undergrad debt". Barring that, I can see why he wants to warn individuals who idealize the PhD and the PhD process - I was thoroughly warned by my advisors. If he wants to warn his students, that's great. Just don't over-generalize to the entire population, that's all I ask!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethanygm Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I want to mention that "young, idealistic" people in ANY profession are likely going to be exploited. (Or, at the very least, someone will try to exploit them). Even though I did my best to protect myself from bad people when I was working in the music industry, I still came across jerks who were controlling, or abusive, or who took advantage of other people. My producer was mainly controlling and manipulative (and I didn't meet many better people), but, of course, we (me.. and the girls in my group) put up with his crap because we wanted to make it in music! You can be abused and used by a professor at a college, or by a manager at a company in which you are trying to get promoted. (I am not speaking sexually here, although there certainly are those people who will stoop to taking that level of "use and abuse" to try to get ahead. - Or those who will attempt to abuse their own power in such a fashion :roll: ) You only get away from this if you find someone really wonderful to work with/for. A lot of times, unfortunately, the man (or woman) above that person sucks, so you are still putting up with crap. This is why I need to be able to work at least somewhat independently, and if I work for someone, it probably needs to be a smaller company with the smallest number of "ranks" in between me and the head person. (Ideally, I would be the head person and work alone or with only a few others). Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinventing Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 I think the main point of this article is to think critically about this decision. Don't just assume that education is the right path, or even a good path, for you. Plenty of people do assume this, and I hear lots of "you can't go wrong with more school" encouragement of people on the line about the graduate school decision. That encouragement can be optimistic--and it can also be downright incorrect--depending on the candidate's situation and expectations. I think all the author is saying is: know what you're getting yourself into, especially if you are getting in debt, and depending on your degree to lead to a job. Graduate school does not work out as expected for a lot of people. When you buy a car, you'd want to know about the risk of catastrophic engine failure. Why not hear the dirt on this other investment--of money, time, and self? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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