No idea what "tier" I'm looking at

[ArthChauc]

Hello, lovely GradCafe lot. I'm a first-time poster and exceptionally nervous about the Ph.D application process (I realize that I am definitely among superb company from reading various other threads). I am currently finalizing a list of potential Ph.D schools and have no idea what to think of what I have so far or if I should be diversifying my list further (suggestions of additional schools are absolutely welcome!). Just a little background...I come from an R1 undergraduate institution and am finishing up a theory-heavy master's degree in literature where I am looking at psychoanalysis and medievalism. My current institution is a very small program but I am working with two extremely reputable, well-published Medievalists (one is a chair of an MLA section and the other an editor for a Bedford edition). My current list stands as follows; any suggestions? Absolutely all comments are welcome!

 

Cheers, everyone. Looking forward to mutually panicking together come late February (who am I kidding? I'm already losing it.). 

 

In no particular order: 

 

U. of Nebraska

U. of Colorado Boulder

U. of Oregon 

Rochester

U. of Tennessee 

Kent State U. 

Wayne State U. 

Southern Methodist U. 

South Carolina U. 

Purdue U.

U. of Washington 

Edited November 23, 2013 by ArthurianChaucerian

[Loric]

I don't even know what R1 means..

 

I do know that Purdue really dislikes it when you misspell their name as if they produced chicken. Had an adminstrator write me a very terse email once when I wrote a story about one of his grads taking over a position at a major company. On my own little obscure blog.

 

Ok.. so.. let's rank this!

 

Flyover State Schools:

• U of Tennessee
• U of Nebraska
• U of Oregon

Somethings that Sounds Overly Religious:

• Southern Methodist U

Chicken People:

• Perdue

Places Named After Superhero Men:

• Kent State
• Wayne State

Hippies:

• U of Colorado Boulder

Other:

• South Carolina U
• U of Washington
• Rochester

There, whoo.. that was some tough ranking but I think it'll help you pick the right school.

[ComeBackZinc]

I don't even know what R1 means..

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_I_university

[gatz]

The job market for medievalists is particularly abysmal, correct? If you're gunning for an academic career, you might want to aim higher as well. I do recognize some of those names as being good places for the field, I'm just pointing out that this game is not all about your research.

[Imaginary]

I don't even know what R1 means..

 

I do know that Purdue really dislikes it when you misspell their name as if they produced chicken. Had an adminstrator write me a very terse email once when I wrote a story about one of his grads taking over a position at a major company. On my own little obscure blog.

 

Ok.. so.. let's rank this!

 

Flyover State Schools:

• U of Tennessee
• U of Nebraska
• U of Oregon

Somethings that Sounds Overly Religious:

• Southern Methodist U

Chicken People:

• Perdue

Places Named After Superhero Men:

• Kent State
• Wayne State

Hippies:

• U of Colorado Boulder

Other:

• South Carolina U
• U of Washington
• Rochester

There, whoo.. that was some tough ranking but I think it'll help you pick the right school.

 

LOL.

[hj2012]

On 11/23/2013 at 4:27 PM, gatz said:

The job market for medievalists is particularly abysmal, correct? If you're gunning for an academic career, you might want to aim higher as well. I do recognize some of those names as being good places for the field, I'm just pointing out that this game is not all about your research.

 

Agreed! Maybe Northwestern? Notre Dame? Washington University in St. Louis?

[Imaginary]

Speaking of "reach" schools, I really want to apply to UC San Diego. However, they indicate that they expect a PhD student to come in with knowledge of a second language and "working knowledge" of literature in that language. I have neither. Should I even apply, if all other parts of my application are decent, even competitive in some ways?

[jazzyd]

Nothing wrong with any of the schools listed - and I do think U of W and Boulder -  are especially good choices, but I agree that you may want to throw some more high profile places in the mix. Obviously ensure that these places have faculty that you'd like to work with, but applying to a mixed range of schools is actually more realistic than limiting yourself to one tier. You can get a great education just about anywhere, but the job market is a relevant consideration even at this stage. I wouldn't know about medievalists having a more difficult time of it, but regardless it's always a good idea to consider which schools could make you a more appealing job candidate from the get-go.

[Swagato]

The job market should be a relevant consideration at any stage.

[Loric]

Speaking of "reach" schools, I really want to apply to UC San Diego. However, they indicate that they expect a PhD student to come in with knowledge of a second language and "working knowledge" of literature in that language. I have neither. Should I even apply, if all other parts of my application are decent, even competitive in some ways?

 

Do you have any knowledge of a second language..? Because in a pinch I can say "French" and i do know -some- French literature and can Rosetta Stone and Babelfish my way through most anything (Lived in Paris for a while, but still cant speak it fluently.)

 

Don't sell yourself short, lord knows other applicants aren't.

[smellybug]

Speaking of "reach" schools, I really want to apply to UC San Diego. However, they indicate that they expect a PhD student to come in with knowledge of a second language and "working knowledge" of literature in that language. I have neither. Should I even apply, if all other parts of my application are decent, even competitive in some ways?

I would say no. You might be able to squeak by with just one, but they are clearly looking to avoid funding basic language study. You can always give the DGS a call and ask to make sure.

[St Andrews Lynx]

Do you have any knowledge of a second language..? Because in a pinch I can say "French" and i do know -some- French literature and can Rosetta Stone and Babelfish my way through most anything (Lived in Paris for a while, but still cant speak it fluently.)

 

Don't sell yourself short, lord knows other applicants aren't.

 

If the program interviews PhD applicants, they will probably/certainly ask you to converse in the languages that you have specified knowing. "Misrepresenting" your foreign language abilities is going to backfire horrendously. 

[poliscar]

Have you considered Princeton? In terms of theory-based Medieval Studies Andrew Cole and D. Vance Smith are both very much at the head of the pack. They edited a recent book together (https://www.dukeupress.edu/The-Legitimacy-of-the-Middle-Ages/) and Cole just published http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/B/bo18008957.html . There are also quite a few theory-based Medievalists in other departments, as well as Daniel Heller-Roazen in Comparative Lit. 

Edited November 28, 2013 by poliscar

[ArthChauc]

Thanks for all of the (relevant) replies. As far as the job market for Medievalists being "abysmal", I think that you might want to note that the job market for generally every literature scholar is currently taking a hit--the universities I applied to have some of the top Medievalists in the country and I believe letters of recommendation from them will trump a general university name.

 

Again, thanks. I suppose I'll focus on my applications now.  

[Phil Sparrow]

the universities I applied to have some of the top Medievalists in the country and I believe letters of recommendation from them will trump a general university name.

 

To some extent, yes, job recs from top medievalists will make a difference. However, a job search committee is not composed of or headed only by people in your field, and a contemporary world literature scholar is unlikely to know or care who your committee members are. The name on your diploma matters a lot. And, while a number of the names in the traditional set of "top" schools are currently being supplanted by a new crop of "top" programs--that is to say that the old guard is indeed giving way to a new guard--it's not that major a shift. You're still going to want to go to a name-brand, publicly prestigious program. Otherwise, frankly, your job dossier might not even get read. Search committees get inundated with applicants and usually look for any reason to cull the herd, including cutting anyone who didn't come from a top-tier program. In other words, you want to go somewhere with a great "university name" AND top medievalists to write you job letters.

[ComeBackZinc]

^ Cosign without enjoying it. People do get hired from programs that aren't high prestige. But the odds are far better for those from name institutions, and punishingly long even for them.

[poliscar]

If the program interviews PhD applicants, they will probably/certainly ask you to converse in the languages that you have specified knowing. "Misrepresenting" your foreign language abilities is going to backfire horrendously. 

This isn't true. Unless you're applying to a Comp Lit. program that specifically asks for spoken fluency graduate programs will not care about your ability to converse in a language. Not to say that one should falsify language capabilities, but in almost every case here we're talking about reading proficiency. Schools will test your language abilities through a written translation exam, and not through any sort of spoken trial. 

[hj2012]

And, while a number of the names in the traditional set of "top" schools are currently being supplanted by a new crop of "top" programs--that is to say that the old guard is indeed giving way to a new guard--it's not that major a shift. 

 

Phil Sparrow, thanks for the insight. Out of curiosity, is there a set of schools that is generally considered to be "up and coming"? What are they? I'd also be curious to know which schools are in danger of being supplanted...I've already submitted all my apps, so it doesn't quite matter, but I am curious.

[Phil Sparrow]

On 12/17/2013 at 10:37 PM, hj2012 said:

Phil Sparrow, thanks for the insight. Out of curiosity, is there a set of schools that is generally considered to be "up and coming"? What are they? I'd also be curious to know which schools are in danger of being supplanted...I've already submitted all my apps, so it doesn't quite matter, but I am curious.

 

Well, I'm making these assessments based off placement records and faculty moves, and my understanding of this stuff is limited to English programs. And like I said, it's not that big a shift. 

 

Yale and Princeton, for instance, have had fairly disappointing placement in the last 5-10 years and are sort of dismissed as "over" by a lot of younger scholars. Northwestern and UVa, meanwhile, have had quite impressive placement records and are looking good--I suspect they'll be the new major players if they can weather the dumb administrative crap going on at their universities. UC Davis is definitely on the upswing, though at this point I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) they have a stronger regional than national placement record. Penn, for so long an early modern power house, is potentially aging out of that power (faculty are retiring, etc.), though as far as I know it's still placing decently and probably will continue to do so at least for a few years. WashU is looking impressive these days. For a long time Brown was only a big deal to people who are starstruck by Ivies (that is, more to students than search committees), but it's looking pretty freakin' sweet these days, and I think it's been placing well. UT-Austin is a red hot program at the moment, too. As DH stuff becomes more and more important to university governing boards and state legislatures, we may see Nebraska busting onto the scene, but that might not be for a while yet, since honestly there's still some real bias against what are considered "flyover" programs.

[jazzyd]

This isn't true. Unless you're applying to a Comp Lit. program that specifically asks for spoken fluency graduate programs will not care about your ability to converse in a language. Not to say that one should falsify language capabilities, but in almost every case here we're talking about reading proficiency. Schools will test your language abilities through a written translation exam, and not through any sort of spoken trial. 

 

Yeah, I don't even think if schools remember what you put down by the time you visit them, let alone when classes start. They maybe would notice if you put down that you were expertly fluent in five languages or something. But if you put down that you have general conversing ability when you're actually pretty rusty that's not something they're going to check for. Professors themselves can be pretty bad with languages, so you're hardly going to sit down to interview and have the other person start speaking in rapid fire Italian. And most programs don't even have interviews, so it's sort of a moot point.

[hj2012]

Very interesting. Thanks for the insight. As someone who is not in graduate school, it's really hard to gauge the relative "feel" of different institutions. I've also found that my undergrad professors were often a bit out of touch with the current state of other grad departments ("Oh, so-and-so would be a great person to contact! Oh, he passed away 10 years ago? What a shame!").

 

UVA was my undergrad institution, and while I didn't apply there for grad school, I've been grinding my teeth over reading the administrative hoopla that's been going on the past couple years. 

[ComeBackZinc]

So this study looks at political science, specifically, but I think this dynamic probably applies in most academic domains, and it's very discouraging. Something for everyone to think about.

 

http://gppreview.com/2012/12/03/superpowers-the-american-academic-elite/

[jazzyd]

So this study looks at political science, specifically, but I think this dynamic probably applies in most academic domains, and it's very discouraging. Something for everyone to think about.

 

http://gppreview.com/2012/12/03/superpowers-the-american-academic-elite/

 

Well, that's sobering.

 

Any reason to hope the rule is a little less hard and fast for English? Isn't our field the more lovey dovey, it's-not-where-you've-been-it's-what-you're-doing-now type?

[ComeBackZinc]

You know, I have no idea, vis a vis this actual study. But it should again remind us: a large majority of the people who write on this board will never get a tenure track job. I don't like to talk about it a lot because I figure most people know that and most people have already made the decision despite those odds. But that's the reality for those of us in the humanities.