CU Boulder

[maxhgns]

I second this.

Also, why is CU graded so high on the PGR? Their philosophy program is clearly a mess and apparently has been for some time.  This makes me really distrust the PGR...

 

The PGR doesn't grade grad programs. It's a measure of faculty reputation (qua scholar).

[Griswald]

I second this.

Also, why is CU graded so high on the PGR? Their philosophy program is clearly a mess and apparently has been for some time.  This makes me really distrust the PGR...

Keep in mind that the PGR only measures the perceived quality of faculty work. Also, the current PGR is nearly 3 years old. I don't think you should distrust it, just recognize its limitations and be sure to get info from lots of other sources about programs you're interested in.

[wandajune]

MattDest, you mentioned you've heard of other Phil departments having less than desirable atmospheres for women. Would you (or anyone) mind saying which schools a women may want to avoid, or could you provide some kind of link for me to learn more on this? As a women applicant, I want to make sure I end up in a department I am comfortable in.

 

I'm also curious about this kind of information. I definitely plan on contacting grad students, particularly women grad students, at any program that admits me in order to ask about the climate, but I'd like all the info I can get!

[Table]

I'm also curious about this kind of information. I definitely plan on contacting grad students, particularly women grad students, at any program that admits me in order to ask about the climate, but I'd like all the info I can get!

 

I agree.

I'm honestly feeling kind of disheartened by the CU Boulder thing. Like maxhgns said, people always talk about "everybody knowing" about the bad departments. But it seems like multiple women here were planning on applying to Boulder and no one was warned. 

[MattDest]

MattDest, you mentioned you've heard of other Phil departments having less than desirable atmospheres for women. Would you (or anyone) mind saying which schools a women may want to avoid, or could you provide some kind of link for me to learn more on this? As a women applicant, I want to make sure I end up in a department I am comfortable in.

 

If you PM me, I can tell you what I've heard. 

Edited February 1, 2014 by MattDest

[Table]

Today Leiter said UT Austin was bad when he was there: http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2014/01/colorados-philosophy-department-put-into-a-kind-of-receivership.html

[bar_scene_gambler]

Today Leiter said UT Austin was bad when he was there: http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2014/01/colorados-philosophy-department-put-into-a-kind-of-receivership.html

God damnit

[alethicethic]

I didn't know about Boulder. I had heard about Austin. 

[Hypatience]

I've heard very negative things about Austin. UC Boulder, however, was news to me.

[kant_get_in]

Be sure to click on the actual report in the press release. 

 

Wow. You're right. It seems a lot worse that I thought. 

[kant_get_in]

Interesting. It seems that the faculty at Boulder didn't know that the report would be made public (at least, according to this source).

 

http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2014/02/colorado-faculty-were-told-apa-committees-report-would-not-be-made-public.html 

[philosophe]

Interesting. It seems that the faculty at Boulder didn't know that the report would be made public (at least, according to this source).

 

http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2014/02/colorado-faculty-were-told-apa-committees-report-would-not-be-made-public.html 

 

Yeah, I saw Leiter's post as well. How embarrassing for that department... I feel awful for those grad students. 

[Cottagecheeseman]

Yeah, I saw Leiter's post as well. How embarrassing for that department... I feel awful for those grad students. 

It sounds that except for a couple of harassers the department was pretty great, like they would socialize after classes and stuff. That sounds great, and I would hope for that, but the couple of absolutely horrible apples ruined it all for the graduate students, and now all that goes away, and they have to struggle with a possible bad reputation (especially if the only faculty in your area was one of them! OH GOD), and so forth. It's such a mess. I'm really glad they decided to end graduate apps until they get it settled out, it sounds like a horrible situation to get into. Man oh Man. I sure hope none of the schools I applied to have anything like this going too.

(I applied to Miami but from what I can tell that was just Colin McGinn who is a giant dick anyway)

[Balatro]

After reading http://www.dailycamera.com/cu-news/ci_25039305/cu-boulder-philosophy-faculty-shocked-by-decision-release, I was struck by Michael Zimmerman's comment,  "It wasn't our intention to have a public spectacle. Had we foreseen this, we never would've invited those people to come."

 

...ouch

[SelfHatingPhilosopher]

 

"(The report) painted unfairly with this broad brush and so all of us feel like we're being perceived as potentially the bad guys," Zimmerman said. "That is unfortunate and unfair."

 

Things wouldn't have come to this point if the department's filth had been taken care at first sight.

[m-ttl]

After reading http://www.dailycamera.com/cu-news/ci_25039305/cu-boulder-philosophy-faculty-shocked-by-decision-release, I was struck by Michael Zimmerman's comment,  "It wasn't our intention to have a public spectacle. Had we foreseen this, we never would've invited those people to come."

 

...ouch

 

That would honestly make me the most wary -- even if they fix the problem, it's obvious this particular person (and maybe others) care more about reputation than the welfare of the people in the department. 

[maxhgns]

It sounds that except for a couple of harassers the department was pretty great, like they would socialize after classes and stuff. That sounds great, and I would hope for that, but the couple of absolutely horrible apples ruined it all for the graduate students, and now all that goes away, and they have to struggle with a possible bad reputation (especially if the only faculty in your area was one of them! OH GOD), and so forth. It's such a mess. I'm really glad they decided to end graduate apps until they get it settled out, it sounds like a horrible situation to get into. Man oh Man. I sure hope none of the schools I applied to have anything like this going too.

(I applied to Miami but from what I can tell that was just Colin McGinn who is a giant dick anyway)

 

Unfortunately, it's not all going away (yet). It'll take a lot of time to fix the problem and rebuild trust, and that is time during which grad admissions should probably remain closed (although they may not).

 

On the plus side, I'm not aware of that kind of stuff at any of the departments you've listed except for Miami. Unfortunately, I only know about a handful of departments where that stuff has happened.

[Coggy]

Things wouldn't have come to this point if the department's filth had been taken care at first sight.

 

For the most part, the department tried to take care of the few bad apples. Unfortunately, getting rid of tenured faculty is not nearly as easy as one might expect–– even in a case like this.

[philstudent1991]

Unfortunately, getting rid of tenured faculty is not nearly as easy as one might expect–– even in a case like this.

Sure but it is important that this be so, otherwise the radical capitalists would have silenced all the liberals by now, and the religious right would have had all the atheists removed.

[SelfHatingPhilosopher]

Sure but it is important that this be so, otherwise the radical capitalists would have silenced all the liberals by now, and the religious right would have had all the atheists removed.

 

Wow, this is... an incredibly dramatic rendition.

[philstudent1991]

Wow, this is... an incredibly dramatic rendition.

The philosophers will be on the right side of history when the Marxist movement of the immense majority finally washes away inequality and the chains of the laborer are broken at last.

[bar_scene_gambler]

Anyone else see this email from Forbes? http://www.scribd.com/doc/204701507/CU-philosophy-chairman-email

[ianfaircloud]

Anyone else see this email from Forbes? http://www.scribd.com/doc/204701507/CU-philosophy-chairman-email

WHOOOAAAAAAAA

[Cottagecheeseman]

Anyone else see this email from Forbes? http://www.scribd.com/doc/204701507/CU-philosophy-chairman-email

So it happened and CU boulder won't be a respectable place to go for years to come, they were right to be worried. I feel bad for them that their dirty laundry became semi-national news, but honestly we don't need programs that foster the problems like they did.

[ianfaircloud]

So it happened and CU boulder won't be a respectable place to go for years to come, they were right to be worried. I feel bad for them that their dirty laundry became semi-national news, but honestly we don't need programs that foster the problems like they did.

 

I agree on all counts.  I feel very badly about the people who were apparently mistreated, bullied, or harassed.  I also feel sorry for the collateral damage.  I know a guy at Colorado, and he's a good person.  He didn't deserve to get thrown into the shit there.  

 

Here are two lessons for everyone.  

 

1) ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS contact current students at the departments to which you've been admitted.  Ask them for a frank evaluation of the department.  In my experience, people are less willing to be frank over email (for OBVIOUS reasons-- e.g. the email may end up all over the Internet, as above).  So ask these folks to TALK WITH YOU ON THE PHONE, or SKYPE, or off-the-record conversation via gmail chat or Google Hangouts.  Better: VISIT the program to which you've been admitted.

 

2) ASSUME that your highly-confidential email will get leaked all over the Internet.  If I were Forbes, I would feel completely humiliated by this particular leak.

Edited February 6, 2014 by ianfaircloud