Physics in Chemistry Grad School

[neuronerd7]

For my chem major I have the option between taking algebra or calculus-based physics. The algebra-based course is only one semester while the calculus-based course is two. If I take the calculus-based courses, I will either spend a summer in school and miss out on internship opportunities or perhaps have to go for an extra summer term before I graduate (switched majors from Bio to Chem). So basically, is it worth it for grad school? Will an internship/summer research opportunity be more important than taking physics with calc? I was looking to go into pharmacology or medicinal chemistry and will have taken both Calculus I and II before I graduate.

[Eigen]

I would personally worry that only 1 semester of Physics would leave you missing a lot of basic material. Even our algebra based courses were 2 semesters, but only 6 credits vs 8. 

 

Molecular mechanics and modeling is an increasing part of medicinal chem, I would say the foundational physics and calculus would help, a good bit. I don't think I could have made it through first semester QM without it. 

 

That said, it seems like your degree is really math/physics light as is- only 2 semesters of calc and one semester of physics. You're looking more into programs that won't be as likely to be housed in a Chemistry program, though, so it might not be such a big deal for you. 

[CanRes]

If you do not have a solid background in calc/physics before you get to quantum chemistry/thermodynamics, you will need a lot more lubrication than your classmates, let's put it that way.

[Cookie]

For my chem major I have the option between taking algebra or calculus-based physics. The algebra-based course is only one semester while the calculus-based course is two. If I take the calculus-based courses, I will either spend a summer in school and miss out on internship opportunities or perhaps have to go for an extra summer term before I graduate (switched majors from Bio to Chem). So basically, is it worth it for grad school? Will an internship/summer research opportunity be more important than taking physics with calc? I was looking to go into pharmacology or medicinal chemistry and will have taken both Calculus I and II before I graduate.

 

I second Eigen that calculus-based physics is a must. In the first semester of grad school that I have just completed, both Quantum Mechanics and Statistical Mechanics are calculus heavy and I would  not have sailed through it without a solid physics base from undergrad. 

Edited December 24, 2013 by heartshapedcookie

[neuronerd7]

Thanks everyone! 

 

Turns out I misread the degree and I can take the first semester as algebra-based but the second semester is still the second semester calculus-based course, but I don't really know why.

 

 

I go to a liberal arts college so I don't have as much room to take more math. I'm having a hard time fitting in all of my chemistry and my neuroscience minor with my gen ed requirements unfortunately.

[YaBoyAR]

Definitely take the Calc based physics for both semesters. I don't even know why the algebra based physics is an option. Might as well be High School physics

[TakeruK]

 

Turns out I misread the degree and I can take the first semester as algebra-based but the second semester is still the second semester calculus-based course, but I don't really know why.

 

 

If that is the case, then definitely take the calculus based physics course first term. I am not in chemistry but I remember the jump from algebra based physics in high school to calculus based physics in college was pretty steep (and I was a physics major!). So second semester physics might be really really tough without first semester calculus physics!

[Usmivka]

And chemistry departments will expect a calculus background.

[alkylholic]

My experience may be different, but I took and tutored in calculus-based physics and tutored in algebra-based physics and found little difference. Calculus-based physics derived equations with calculus and that's it - almost all the problems were done with algebra. I did find the calculus-based physics more "math-heavy," but again it was just basic algebra. 

 

As for physical chemistry, all we needed to be able to do was take integrals and derivatives - adapting it to the concepts came with practicing calculus. It's true modelling and molecular mechanics is important in medchem, but I knew someone who sucked at pchem and still did well in computational modelling research.     

 

I think most schools will care more about your research/internship experience than your physics and calculus if you're going into med chem or pharm. Having studied med chem, having a solid understanding of organic chem and chem bio will took me much further than pchem in this particular area. 

 

That being said though, doing poorly in these courses will drop your GPA, which can harm your chances in getting into grad school. 

Edited December 24, 2013 by alkylholic

[neuronerd7]

Thanks! Looks like I'm just going to have to get permission to load up on credits for a semester. Or maybe I could do a summer of independent research at my home university and take a class at the same time, and I think that would also count for my chem and/or neuro independent project, freeing up another slot on my schedule. It'll all work out, I guess. I love physics and would love to be able to do as much as possible.

 

The good thing about the degree is that I'll have to do three independent projects by the time I graduate (1 chem, 1 neuro, and 1- assuming I keep my GPA up- chem honors thesis), so hopefully that'll make up for my degree having fewer math and physics requirements.

 

Also, would taking something like linear algebra or differential equations be useful? I've heard it is, but again, not sure if I'll have time. Maybe I could take those classes at a community college or my local university after I graduate if they'd really be worth it.

Edited December 24, 2013 by neuronerd7

[TakeruK]

My experience may be different, but I took and tutored in calculus-based physics and tutored in algebra-based physics and found little difference. Calculus-based physics derived equations with calculus and that's it - almost all the problems were done with algebra. I did find the calculus-based physics more "math-heavy," but again it was just basic algebra. 

 

I have similar experience to you but in my "calculus based physics" classes, the problems were done with calculus! For example, you may be expected to solve differential equations to determine the equations of motion for various cases. So, I guess it would really depend on the school/class!

[GeoDUDE!]

 

My experience may be different, but I took and tutored in calculus-based physics and tutored in algebra-based physics and found little difference. Calculus-based physics derived equations with calculus and that's it - almost all the problems were done with algebra. I did find the calculus-based physics more "math-heavy," but again it was just basic algebra. 

 

 

 

The types of problems that are addressed are often different in a calculus based course. At my school we had Intro Physics and "Enhanced Physics". Enhanced Physics went to an extra lecture which presented 2 calculus based problems a week, a long with an extra problem set. Especially in Physics 2, which deals with Electric and Magnetic Fields. 

[DerpTastic]

There was a good chunk of my physics 1 that didn't use that much calculus, since most students in my school take calculus 1 with it. However, there are some problems or concepts that just can't be used in algebra based physics, because you really need calculus for it. From what I've seen tutoring, there are some things in the algebra based class where they just tell you something is true, and you memorize it.

 

Since you figured out you need physics 2 calc based anyway, why not take physics 1 calc based as well?

[neuronerd7]

Yep, obviously will now since it's the same amount of classes. I'm just upset with my high school counselor telling me not to waste money on some of my AP exams when I shouldn't take credits for science and math classes. Could have saved so much time instead of retaking all of these classes. Sigh.

[TakeruK]

Yep, obviously will now since it's the same amount of classes. I'm just upset with my high school counselor telling me not to waste money on some of my AP exams when I shouldn't take credits for science and math classes. Could have saved so much time instead of retaking all of these classes. Sigh.

 

That sucks! I think the policy at most schools is that they will accept AP credits to fulfill elective or breadth requirements, but not pre-requisites. So, for example, students who are majoring in Physics won't benefit from AP Physics credits (although the exam might have counted for other high school requirements or help gain admission in the first place). But in your case, it sounds like if you had received AP Physics credits, it might have covered your Physics requirements in this chemistry program

[neuronerd7]

Yeah usually AP credit is for non-major and non-divisional (gen ed) courses at my school, but chemistry, physics, and calculus counted for major-level courses. I could have only skipped a semester of each and I guess it's nice to get a new foundation with what the school in particular teaches, but still annoying. Just means that I can take fewer neuroscience electives. Thankfully those skills should be pretty easy to pick up with training/ in grad school.

 

 

Ahh the joys of schooling.

Edited December 26, 2013 by neuronerd7

[biochemistry professor]

Research experience is more important than course work. Without research experience, you won't be competitive at many programs. It's better to do one intense research experience than a bunch of little ones.

 

With that being said, you should take the calculus based physics if possible. Do research AND take classes. Work hard and love it. As a grad student, you will be expected to live and breathe science.

 

Differential equations will probably be more useful than linear algebra given your stated research interests. You should try to take that if possible, but it is a lower priority than the first two choices described above. Avoid taking important science classes at community colleges. That will weaken your application. You might be able to take this course during graduate school.

 

 

Thanks! Looks like I'm just going to have to get permission to load up on credits for a semester. Or maybe I could do a summer of independent research at my home university and take a class at the same time, and I think that would also count for my chem and/or neuro independent project, freeing up another slot on my schedule. It'll all work out, I guess. I love physics and would love to be able to do as much as possible.

 

The good thing about the degree is that I'll have to do three independent projects by the time I graduate (1 chem, 1 neuro, and 1- assuming I keep my GPA up- chem honors thesis), so hopefully that'll make up for my degree having fewer math and physics requirements.

 

Also, would taking something like linear algebra or differential equations be useful? I've heard it is, but again, not sure if I'll have time. Maybe I could take those classes at a community college or my local university after I graduate if they'd really be worth it.