Non-philosophy applicants stubbornly advising philosophy applicants...

[bar_scene_gambler]

Hold on, let me just quote what I said:

 

 

 

given that you are neither currently applying, nor have you ever applied for placement in a philosophy department.

I'd like to highlight two especially important part there. First, I said currently. I don't particularly care whether or not you've been admitted to many graduate programs. In fact, you could have been admitted to 100 different graduate programs, and it still wouldn't matter. You know why? Because you have never been a part of the philosophical community. That leads me to the second important piece. We're talking about philosophy, not whatever the hell it is that you do. I'm not going around and discussing how other fields function and how admissions committees in other fields choose applicants. You know why? Because I couldn't possibly know as well as those who have been a part of said community. The reason why we prefer other philosophy applicants and those who have been through applications in philosophy before isn't because we want to listen to our own opinions, it's because philosophers know what's going on in philosophy (notice how I'm emphasizing philosophy?), while you're just guessing. You aren't qualified to talk about philosophy just because you've been through applications in your own field before. You're at least just as inexperienced as the rest of us, except you haven't been talking to philosophy faculty and monitoring trends in applications and emailing philosophy faculty at other programs for the last two years (which, by the way, I have been doing).

So, short story long, we're really sick of hearing you speak as if you were qualified when in reality (and as fuzzylogician has pointed out) what you're spewing is unqualified, confident-sounding bullshit. 

[Loric]

Except that I studied epistemology and aesthetics under one of the biggest names in the field.

 

You assume I'm wrong and know nothing because you want me to be wrong. You have no basis for believing that other than it being what you WANT to believe.

[Cottagecheeseman]

you're not even gonna name drop? wow...

[bar_scene_gambler]

Oh, and if you want specific examples of bad advice that you've given, I can give you one.

In the topic "What is the Upper Bound for Number of PhD Programs to Apply To?" You make the comment that

 

 

I think everyone vastly over estimates the WS.

Now, if it had ended there, it would have been fine, except that many people told you that in philosophy that is simply not the case, and you refused to back down. It is widely accepted that in philosophy the Writing Sample is the most important part of the application. Why? Because the vast majority of faculty you talk to will tell you as much, programs like the University of Chicago put on their website that the writing sample is extremely important, blogs like Splintered Mind tell you that a good writing sample can make up for a bad application etc. You cited your defense with appeals to the social sciences forum and other non-philosophy sources. And I'm not even going to get started on the "if there were more qualified applicants there would be more positions available" argument that you tried to have.

This is what everyone is referring to when we say you're giving bad advice. Perhaps advice is the wrong word to use, maybe incorrect impression is better. You're giving an incorrect impression based upon knowledge of a sub-field which is not philosophy. And instead of backing down and saying that you were wrong when all of us stepped up to tell you why you were wrong, you appealed to sources which were not philosophy, and continued to argue. This attitude is potentially dangerous for any who might come along and believe your confidently-claimed bullshit and, say, put less effort into their writing sample than they should. 

Oh, and by the way, appealing to authority still doesn't mean that you're qualified to talk about the applications process in philosophy.

Edited December 31, 2013 by bar_scene_gambler

[Loric]

So i said "i think" and made an honest statement and that's giving bad advice..?

[SelfHatingPhilosopher]

You aren't accepted anywhere - so neither are you "qualified."

 

I have been admitted to a graduate program - multiple in fact. You have not. So you have no right to sit there and say I have no clue about academia while you claim to know everything, as someone who has not been admitted anywhere ever.

 

This has nothing to do with academia. It has to do with graduate admissions in philosophy specifically. For what it's worth, I have been admitted to, and am at a graduate program in philosophy, and have observed some amount of the admission process at both my undergrad and graduate university. And for what it's worth, your advice has been bad, whereas bar_scene_gambler's has not.

[Loric]

This has nothing to do with academia. It has to do with graduate admissions in philosophy specifically. For what it's worth, I have been admitted to, and am at a graduate program in philosophy, and have observed some amount of the admission process at both my undergrad and graduate university. And for what it's worth, your advice has been bad, whereas bar_scene_gambler's has not.

 

What advice did i give?

 

Saying something a million times with no basis does not make it true.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Loric

[bar_scene_gambler]

Like I just got done telling you, it would have been fine if you had just stuck with "I think" and then, when everyone gave you reasons why your original impression was incorrect, recanted. But you didn't. You kept going, giving the incorrect impression that the writing sample is less important than it is based upon non-philosophy sources and personal experience, not nearly enough to be a qualified opinion and certainly not enough to justify your first impression.

[SelfHatingPhilosopher]

So i said "i think" and made an honest statement and that's giving bad advice..?

 

Dude... you didn't just say "i think" and left it at that. You fought back when literally everyone was telling you that you were wrong.

[SelfHatingPhilosopher]

What advice did i give?

 

Saying something a million times with no basis does not make it true.

 

You do realize your advice regarding the WS was mentioned as one example literally minutes ago?

[bar_scene_gambler]

Dude... you didn't just say "i think" and left it at that. You fought back when literally everyone was telling you that you were wrong.

And not just telling him that he was wrong, but also giving reasons why. I swear, it's like we're talking to a brick wall.

[Loric]

And i still don't agree - I didn't offer it as advice or tell anyone I was right and not to be questioned.

 

You have fabricated this idea that people could be hurt in their applications because you only want people who agree with you and parrot what you say to play in your sandbox.

 

This thread was created with malice to try and exclude other posters from posting in "your" forum for entirely false reasons.

[bar_scene_gambler]

I'm sure this thread was created to let others know that, though they may comment here, they're not qualified to make claims like "I think everyone vastly overestimates the writing sample". It may be true in your discipline and it may be true in others, but it's simply false when it comes to philosophy, and pretty much anyone who is familiar with academic philosophy will be able to tell you as much.
 

As for whether or not you agree, you're welcome to your opinion, but frankly, I could care less if you disagree. What I care about is that you stop acting as if you're correct, because you are blatantly incorrect when it comes to philosophy and pretty much everyone on this particular forum has told you as much. The fact that you stubbornly cling to your incorrect impression only solidifies the opinion that you don't know what you're talking about when in comes to philosophy.

Edited December 31, 2013 by bar_scene_gambler

[Loric]

It's not a claim.

 

Do you not understand english?

[Loric]

I kindly request, that for the sake of other posters, you do not post in any other forum in which English is the primary mode of communication, because you have insistently shown a lack of knowledge and understanding of the English language. Your incorrect interpretation of the language and wrong use of terminology could lead others to believe that is how the English language is meant to be used and put these incorrect and false uses into their applications - which would certainly hurt them in their chances of acceptance at any school anywhere which uses the English language.

[SelfHatingPhilosopher]

And i still don't agree - I didn't offer it as advice or tell anyone I was right and not to be questioned.

 

You have fabricated this idea that people could be hurt in their applications because you only want people who agree with you and parrot what you say to play in your sandbox.

 

This thread was created with malice to try and exclude other posters from posting in "your" forum for entirely false reasons.

 

You got us pegged bro. This forum is actually a conspiracy. So if you wouldn't mind leaving...

[Cottagecheeseman]

Guys, I looked over Loric's posting history, and went through old threads. First, Loric is probably a pathological liar, as well as fairly obvious troll. For example, I can't decide if Loric is a she or a he, as the information seems to be contradictory, also there are many accounts of stories that could only be true in some fantasy world, as well as obvious troll threads, like my personal favorite, one about 'grad bang buddies'. As is the best way to treat trolls, we should just leave her/him and their my little pony loving self alone. We have seen already that she/he does not act with reason, nor is susceptible to it, so it's best to leave it alone.

[jamc8383]

I kind of can't believe this conversation is still happening.

[Cottagecheeseman]

I kind of can't believe this conversation is still happening.

Me too. Don't feed the trolls!

[bar_scene_gambler]

I kind of can't believe this conversation is still happening.

I'm sorry I just wanted a community of well-informed, qualified commenters. 

[deloozin it]

so much ressentiment on this thread!  why can't we just treat all trolls or half-trolls like we treat dfindley???

[jamc8383]

I'm sorry I just wanted a community of well-informed, qualified commenters.

No need to apologize. I was simply expressing awe at the dogged belligerency of....well, you know.

[GeoDUDE!]

You know how some people go to nascar......

[m-ttl]

I kind of can't believe this conversation is still happening.

 

Although I am obviously not a philosophy student I often read the other humanities forums. I don't blame any of you for being upset or annoyed. I don't know anything about philosophy, and therefore would not care to comment on applying to philosophy programs (with good reason)! Frankly, I'm surprised (and irritated) that people who are blatantly trolling the forum and other users are told time and time again to stop and nothing is done to keep them from continuing their behavior. Other people (besides Loric) have been given warnings for using abusive language, and continue to be rude and aggressive. Or in Loric's case, they are unhelpful and derailing at best or aggressively mean and insulting at worst. 

 

It's tiresome and not very helpful to watch multiple trolls insert their "knowledge" everywhere and upset other users. When does it get stopped? I understand "don't feed the troll" but I also think there should be some modicum of decorum and politeness here... trolling is pointless and an abuse of the forum's purpose. 

Edited January 1, 2014 by m-ttl

[Cottagecheeseman]

Although I am obviously not a philosophy student I often read the other humanities forums. I don't blame any of you for being upset or annoyed. I don't know anything about philosophy, and therefore would not care to comment on applying to philosophy programs (with good reason)! Frankly, I'm surprised (and irritated) that people who are blatantly trolling the forum and other users are told time and time again to stop and nothing is done to keep them from continuing their behavior. Other people (besides Loric) have been given warnings for using abusive language, and continue to be rude and aggressive. Or in Loric's case, they are unhelpful and derailing at best or aggressively mean and insulting at worst. 

 

It's tiresome and not very helpful to watch multiple trolls insert their "knowledge" everywhere and upset other users. When does it get stopped? I understand "don't feed the troll" but I also think there should be some modicum of decorum and politeness here... trolling is pointless and an abuse of the forum's purpose. 

you know I was beginning to think that non-philosophy majors were rather stupid, but thanks for clearing it up that only some of them are!