Harvard Divinity MTS vs. MDiv / switching from MTS to MDiv

[twilightmoon]

Greetings,

 

I am applying to Harvard Divinity School (deadline Jan. 15th) and really struggling to discern whether I should apply to MTS or MDiv program. I am attracted to the MTS because it is academically oriented and eventually I'd like to get a PhD. I am attracted to the MDiv because it grounds academics/theory in practice and seems to be a more robust and holistic education. However, I would be an unconventional MDiv candidate as I am multifaith and do not have a conventional ministry but am interested in issues of movement/dance/body and prayer/meditation within different traditions.

 

I understand that, once admitted, students do sometimes switch between programs. I believe switching from MTS to MDiv is more common. I am considering applying to MTS and then seeing if MDiv is a more suitable program once I get there. But, I have some questions:

 

1) What is the process for switching from MTS to MDiv?

2) What is the financial burden of switching from MTS to MDiv? If an MTS student is given an HDS scholarship, will that be extended into a third year if the student switches to MDiv?

3) Any other advice about discerning which program is the best fit?

 

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful and timely advice!

 

 

 

 

 

[Canis]

I can speak to #3.

 

I have three colleagues who did the MTS - and I was really surprised how much they were basically doing the same work I did in an anthropology MA program - so you're right, it's very solid academic stuff. Much more so than what I had in my religion undergrad studies, which was very 'fluffy.'

 

I even know a student who studied body and movement in the MTS - this is a topic that comes up pretty regularly. I would advise going for the MTS b/c you can always use an MTS as a foundation for further scholarly work, but not so with the MDiv. At the end of the day, graduate degree programs are credentials that allow you to do certain things. If you wanted to, you could study all of this at home, or via distance learning, or using a library and local non-credit coursework. You go there for the credential so you can do something else. It sounds like that something else for you is PhD, so MTS.

[Macrina]

you can always use an MTS as a foundation for further scholarly work, but not so with the MDiv.

That's just not true. The MDiv is a perfectly acceptable degree for folks applying to doctoral programs, the reason many people with more academic plans choose the MTS is that it's shorter since it cuts out the practical and pastoral pieces that are not seen as necessary for a more academic career path. The core academic parts are typically very similar, and both degrees are acceptable preparation for advanced degree work.

If the practical piece seems relevant, or if you think you might benefit from the professional training aspects of the MDiv, then apply for it. If you want just the academics without the fieldwork and ministerial formation, then pick the MTS. Other than a phd, what do you want to do with the degree when you're finished? If the answer to that is you only want it for the PhD then you should probably stick to the shorter program and not waste the time on work you don't want or need.

You'll be able to find the answers to your other questions by looking at the detailed program descriptions/student resources part of the HDS website. Good luck with your decision.

[Theophilos]

I would advise going for the MTS b/c you can always use an MTS as a foundation for further scholarly work, but not so with the MDiv.

It's unfortunately not nearly this cut and dry. At least as many students doing doctoral work at top programs are doing so with an MDiv vs MTS/MA. True, an MTS will give you a more specialized focus than the MDiv, but many PhD programs also look favorably on the breadth of education you get with an MDiv degree. I can't speak to Harvard's MDiv in particular, but I would say that if you have absolutely no interest in or plan for vocational ministry, you may find some of the more "practical" courses boring, irrelevant, etc. Just my two cents.

[Theophilos]

Ha. Looks like Macrina and I were working on essentially the same response at the same time. Sorry for the redundancy!

[twilightmoon]

Greetings,

 

Thank you for your prompt and heartfelt responses! I am still wondering if anyone can answer my first two, more logistical questions:

 

1) What is the process for switching from MTS to MDiv?

2) What is the financial burden of switching from MTS to MDiv? If an MTS student is given an HDS scholarship, will that be extended into a third year if the student switches to MDiv?

 

(Macrina - I wasn't able to find this information on the HDS website. Perhaps you could provide the appropriate link?)

 

Thanks again!

[Macrina]

The information you are looking for is typically buried deep in the student handbook/bulletin/program materials. I'm not a student at HDS, so I'm not the best person to find that for you. But a quick email or call to the admissions folks should get you sorted out. You won't be the first person to ask.

In general, the tuition difference (including the extra year of costs) will be the likely financial burden. I don't know about HDS but I would think it was very unlikely that a scholarship would transfer from one program to another - they tend to be allocated to specific programs and courses of study and then awarded to applicants by program. But you can always ask! In general, MDiv students tend to get more money than MTS students, both because the degree is longer (+ therefore more $/ greater need for $) and because there are a lot more established funds and scholarships for MDiv students.

[Kleets712]

Twilight,

 

Current HDS Mdiv applying to doctoral programs here. HDS loves nontraditional ministry, and the funding is much more generous for it. When switching (extremely easy to do), you keep the same funding, which makes it less desirable to switch to Mdiv rather than starting out with it (MTS has less funding).

 

The advice I always give to those stuck in the middle is to go Mdiv, build a shadow resume through practical experience, get really excellent funding, and spend an extra year with professors. I consider it a win - win - win at HDS. 

Edited January 7, 2014 by Kleets712

[MsBOOM]

HDS funding is year-by-year basis, so funding will not be hindered by you switching over. Funding is also based on need and academic merit (your first year grades will greatly affect funding), so as long as those two things are in the clear, then your funding will be great (should you be admitted).

 

Honestly, from what my friends here at HDS have told me about the switch from MTS to MDIV, it seems pretty easy. They went in and request it and were granted it soon after. HDS is a very understanding place and the staff and faculty does a lot to accommodate students - so much to the point that I honestly think it's not a point for you to worry about right now.

[twilightmoon]

Thanks all for your generous help! Kleets712 - Your post especially addressed my concerns. I happened to call Harvard financial aid yesterday, and they said that merit scholarship granted for the two year MTS would not be extended to the third year for MDiv. So, that made things black and white and made my choice more clear. Although the switch from one program to another sounds extremely easy, I do think the funding would be a major inhibiting factor, and so going with MDiv first seems best. Also, I called the ask-a-student line at HDS and it seems I would probably be disappointed by MTS in the face of the more holistic MDiv. So I think I'm going to commit to applying to MDiv. Thanks everyone for the help!!

[doobiebrothers]

it's easier to get in as an MDiV (best friend was on the adcom last year)

[Safaliy0]

I am in the same boat; I applied for the MTS but am now thinking that I should have applied for the M.Div. I ultimately want to pursue a PhD but I want to get a pastoral care certification (CPE) as a back-up in case a teaching job doesn't materialize. All the stories in the press about adjuncts really have me scared! Unfortunately, the application deadline has already past. Since funding is on a year by year basis, it should be possible to apply for extra funding in the second and third years, after you make the switch. So, I guess my fate is to deal with a slightly less generous stipend in the first year and then try to up it in the following years. Am I right in assuming this? 

[theorykween]

Stipends are only given to a very small number of Masters students at HDS, and only  as the result of a specific scholarship (President's Scholarship, any number of denominational scholarships, etc.). From anecdotal experience, unless you have a large number of assets in the bank, most people are given full tuition scholarships and are then expected to take out loans or find other sources of funding to cover their living expenses. You should not have dramatically different funding packages when you switch between the degrees. Also, it is very very common for people to switch between the degrees during their time at HDS, and from everything I've seen students aren't penalized in any way for doing so. I'm pretty sure that if you're set on doing the MDiv (and I highly recommend that degree, it changed my life) that you can switch to it in your first week or two of school and register for the MDiv required classes in your first semester, meaning you'd be right on pace with the rest of your class in fulfilling graduation requirements.

Good luck!!

[belichick]

 

Greetings,

 

Thank you for your prompt and heartfelt responses! I am still wondering if anyone can answer my first two, more logistical questions:

 

1) What is the process for switching from MTS to MDiv?

2) What is the financial burden of switching from MTS to MDiv? If an MTS student is given an HDS scholarship, will that be extended into a third year if the student switches to MDiv?

 

(Macrina - I wasn't able to find this information on the HDS website. Perhaps you could provide the appropriate link?)

 

Thanks again!

 

If you get accepted to the MTS and want to make the switch to the MDiv you have to make your case to the director of the MDiv program and convince her that you're making the move for legitimate ministerial reasons (i.e. not just to buy more time in a masters program). There's always the possibility that your request can be denied. I'll also reiterate what others have said: the mDiv can be very solid training for an academic path (assuming that's what you want) primarily because it gives you an extra year to develop legitimate relationships with the professors who will be writing your letters. If you opt for an MTS, the clock begins ticking on DAY ONE. You need to be extremely strategic about doing the myriad things necessary to put together a solid application: developing relationships with profs, language proficiencies, research interests, methodolodical tools, etc.

 

In other words, if you're feeling like you're already on a fast track toward a doctoral program (languages are tight, research interests are relatively tight, etc) then an MTS is great because it saves you case. If not, an MDiv might be the safer route. Keep in mind, even though you get the extra year as an mDiv, bc of the academic requirements you really only net 4 extra classes. That said, that extra year can be gold if you're looking to develop some solid relationships.

 

Good luck.