Any substantial benefit of getting 2nd Bachelors to boost chances for MA program?

[makingmoves]

I'm applying to Yale and Columbia's East Asian Studies programs.

Yale has a min of 308, and Columbia doesn't have a specified minimum for that specific program.

 

- I have 5 solid recommendations, 3 academic, 2 professional. 

- 3.7 GPA for Chinese coursework (41 credits, but never got the BA degree), 3.45 Major GPA in MIS, (3.25 cumulative due to Computer Science minor) from a mid to upper tiered school (University of Connecticut)

- I've studied abroad for a semester in Taiwan, and speak Mandarin with an advanced proficiency

- Hired as interpreter and venue security for General Electric executives at Beijing Olympics

- My statement of purpose is also solid. 

- Mediocre GRE: 155V, 150Q. I will retake next year if I don't get in. 

- I've worked 3 years at a respectable multinational fortune 50 company... facilitating some projects for Chinese customers

- I also have lots of volunteer experience at local schools, tutoring, and TA'ing the language and culture. I'm also working with Junior Achievement's China Global Business Exchange program to help 20 kids from Beijing and CT to create a mock global company.

- And am currently developing a video game to facilitate the learning of the language

 

Question:

I'm expecting my mediocre GRE and GPA will preclude my admission into those schools for Fall 2014. That being said, I want to start now building a stronger application for the next time I apply to the MA. I thought I could do that by applying to a nearby International Studies BA program with focus on East Asia from Trinity College (upper-tier Liberal Arts college) in Hartford. They said they can accept a lot of transfer credit from UConn, so I could perhaps graduate with a new BA from Trinity in 1 year. This has many benefits in my mind to achieve my goal for the MA:

- Earn an actual BA degree in something related to the Masters- International Studies, focus on China

- The BA would be from a more prestigious program/school, maybe help boost chances

- I would only need a few more classes (maybe 1 year) to get the degree. If I put the time in, I can put a high GPA on my resume

- My company would pay for the Bachelors if I pursue it part time

 

Any reason to not bother wasting time getting the second bachelors? 

[rising_star]

Lots of reasons not to waste your time, most of which boil down to money. Trinity College is a private school, isn't it? So tuition will likely be pricey. Also, even if they do take a lot of credits, one year is awfully optimistic, especially if you're going the part-time, employer-paid option. And, if you do pull that off in a year, you won't be giving yourself a chance to get improved letters of recommendation or anything. For interdisciplinary MAs, it really isn't crucial that you have a related degree, especially given that you've shown an interest in the field. The bigger thing might be expanding your scope beyond two Ivy League cash-cow MAs (they typically don't come with funding) to additional programs that meet your interests and will help you reach your goals, whatever those may be.

[makingmoves]

Lots of reasons not to waste your time, most of which boil down to money. Trinity College is a private school, isn't it? So tuition will likely be pricey. Also, even if they do take a lot of credits, one year is awfully optimistic, especially if you're going the part-time, employer-paid option. And, if you do pull that off in a year, you won't be giving yourself a chance to get improved letters of recommendation or anything. For interdisciplinary MAs, it really isn't crucial that you have a related degree, especially given that you've shown an interest in the field. The bigger thing might be expanding your scope beyond two Ivy League cash-cow MAs (they typically don't come with funding) to additional programs that meet your interests and will help you reach your goals, whatever those may be.

Good to know, thanks. So the GPA boost + related coursework from the Trinity degree wouldn't necessarily help me towards getting into the MA? Plus, if I start this BA program at Trinity in Fall 2014, and take 2 semesters with a high GPA and great coursework, and find out I get in to the MA before I finish the BA degree, I could always drop out from Trinity.

 

Also, what do you mean by expanding my scope to other programs? Academically? I wanted to attend top programs for East Asian Studies, and figured a MA from a good school was the best way to go.

 

I would apply to more schools and more programs besides Area Studies programs (such as International Relations, Columbia's practical Chinese MARSEA training program, International Business, etc) but my full-time job is willing to sponsor part-time graduate studies. So I can only apply to somewhat nearby schools that offer part-time studies... So given my strong language background, I was going to shoot for a higher level MA in East Asian Studies program, develop a solid foundation of the language, history, and economics of the region, and combine that later with a MBA to become a liaison for business or some other field. Given this goal, any thoughts on local/online/part-time programs I should look into?

Edited January 8, 2014 by makingmoves

[med latte]

I would recommend that you take some graduate-level courses as a graduate student at large (also called non-degree seeking student).  That will show the committee that you can handle grad-level coursework.  At most universities the application process for non-degree students is straightforward (no GRE or GPA info needed.)  The classes you complete may count towards your Masters when you do get in. Take one class at a time to start, and do all you can to make an A.

Edited January 9, 2014 by med latte

[makingmoves]

I would recommend that you take some graduate-level courses as a graduate student at large (also called non-degree seeking student).  That will show the committee that you can handle grad-level coursework.  At most universities the application process for non-degree students is straightforward (no GRE or GPA info needed.)  The classes you complete may count towards your Masters when you do get in. Take one class at a time to start, and do all you can to make an A.

Now there's a thought! I'll have to check some programs out. Does my current profile not look competitive enough for a top-level MA program in East Asian studies?

Edited January 9, 2014 by makingmoves

[Canis]

What rising_star said.

 

Just because the programs are at Yale & Columbia doesn't make them "top programs."

 

Where are the scholars, the researchers that you want to work with? Where do they teach? Where is the best program with an area studies focus in your region + FLAS?

 

That's where you want to focus your attention.

 

When people apply for PhDs at Columbia but don't make the cut, they often offer them a position in the MA program. That's, in part, what they mean when they call a program a 'cash cow.' The programs are perfectly good, but they will admit students who can pay. New School is another good example of this.

 

You're much better off working with great faculty at a school in Michigan, Hawaii, or Washington with good FLAS for your area than getting an ivy MA just to get an ivy MA.

[Guest Gnome Chomsky]

Depends on the field you're applying to and the pre-reqs. If you have a BA in X and you want to apply to an MA in Y, which is completely unrelated to X, then fulfilling the pre-reqs might entail taking 7-8 classes. In that case, you might consider a minor or even a major (that's what I did going from a liberal arts background to a computer science-related field). But if you're applying to an MA in something somewhat related or at least in the same realm (like both in the social sciences), then I don't think it's necessary. It's just an MA. 

[makingmoves]

What rising_star said.

 

Just because the programs are at Yale & Columbia doesn't make them "top programs."

 

Where are the scholars, the researchers that you want to work with? Where do they teach? Where is the best program with an area studies focus in your region + FLAS?

 

That's where you want to focus your attention.

 

When people apply for PhDs at Columbia but don't make the cut, they often offer them a position in the MA program. That's, in part, what they mean when they call a program a 'cash cow.' The programs are perfectly good, but they will admit students who can pay. New School is another good example of this.

 

You're much better off working with great faculty at a school in Michigan, Hawaii, or Washington with good FLAS for your area than getting an ivy MA just to get an ivy MA.

 

Books that I have read (notably an investor's experience in East Asia- Jim Roger's Street Smarts) and research I've done, plus online rankings for East Asian Studies M.A.'s, such as http://www.topgradprograms.com/browse/programs.php?let=E&pid=189 and http://www.valpo.edu/chineseandjapanesestudies/macs/graduateprograms.pdf recommend those schools as best options in my area. But I don't necessarily need to do an East Asian Studies M.A.... I want anything that will adequately prepare me to be a liaison/connect for American and East Asian relations and/or business. So my plan was to get stronger foundations of the East Asian region and Mandarin language through advanced studies, and then get an MBA. Do you have recommendations? Should I just Google search "top area studies + FLAS programs"?

 

I think what I need is an adviser, lol.

 

As far as specific researchers and scholars, I really have no idea about that. I've only talked to some friends who went to Columbia who rave about some top researchers for topics like China Economics and Global Economy teaching at their program. How do I find "top" scholars in these fields?

Edited January 10, 2014 by makingmoves

[med latte]

Now there's a thought! I'll have to check some programs out. Does my current profile not look competitive enough for a top-level MA program in East Asian studies?

 

 

 If you have a strong SoP, I say go for it!  But again, my gut reaction is to not spend one more moment on undergrad-level classes.  For the MA program I went to, I went from not being accepted one year to getting a generous scholarship when I reapplied the following year because I took some grad non-degree classes that later went towards my MA (and I had more work experience the following year).  Focus on demonstrating a fit between your interests and the program /faculty's research in your SoP.  Doing an independent research project will help, too, if you decide to apply later.

Good luck, and let us know what you decide!

[makingmoves]

 

 

 If you have a strong SoP, I say go for it!  But again, my gut reaction is to not spend one more moment on undergrad-level classes.  For the MA program I went to, I went from not being accepted one year to getting a generous scholarship when I reapplied the following year because I took some grad non-degree classes that later went towards my MA (and I had more work experience the following year).  Focus on demonstrating a fit between your interests and the program /faculty's research in your SoP.  Doing an independent research project will help, too, if you decide to apply later.

Good luck, and let us know what you decide!

 

Were your GRE scores already sufficient when you applied both times? Meaning, I'm wondering if your retaking the GREs plus taking grad non-degree classes helped you along.

[med latte]

Were your GRE scores already sufficient when you applied both times? Meaning, I'm wondering if your retaking the GREs plus taking grad non-degree classes helped you along.

It was the SSA program at University of Chicago.  No GRE needed.  So, can't say....

[juilletmercredi]

You may transfer up to 18 arts and sciences courses from accredited two- and four-year colleges. We will evaluate your transcript to determine which courses are eligible for transfer credit at Trinity and determine which, if any, general education requirements have been met.

 

Trinity College awards 1 credit per class, and they state that you need to take at least 18 credits at Trinity to get a Trinity degree.  Generally their full-time students earn, on average 9 credits per year.  It is ambitious to think that even a full-time student - much less a part-time student with a full-time job - could earn 18 credits at Trinity in just one year.

 

I would apply to more schools and more programs besides Area Studies programs (such as International Relations, Columbia's practical Chinese MARSEA training program, International Business, etc) but my full-time job is willing to sponsor part-time graduate studies. So I can only apply to somewhat nearby schools that offer part-time studies... So given my strong language background, I was going to shoot for a higher level MA in East Asian Studies program, develop a solid foundation of the language, history, and economics of the region, and combine that later with a MBA to become a liaison for business or some other field. Given this goal, any thoughts on local/online/part-time programs I should look into?

 

I don't understand this logic, TBQH.  It looks like your eventual goal is to work in international business specializing in East Asia.  I'm not an expert, but it seems to me that what would make you competitive for an MBA and/or those kinds of jobs is not necessarily an MA in EALAC, but 1) strong language skills and 2) business experience in those countries, especially in business.  You already have the language skills, and it appears that you have a good deal of experience working at a top firm on projects for Chinese customers.  Why do you even need this MA?  I'm willing to bet good money that most people who do international business with Chinese/East Asian clients do not have an MA in EALAC.  What they have is (besides an MBA) a good command of one or more of the languages in the region and knowledge/experience of the area through direct experience.  Any business employer is going to value actual experience in East Asian businesses over academic learning, so honestly it may even just be better for you to stay in your current job and maybe learn a second language in your spare time than getting an MA in EALAC.

 

At least at Columbia, the MA in EALAC is a very academic humanities type degree, and it's really designed for students who want to pursue further research into languages and cultures of East Asia, not necessarily students who need applied learning.  The professors here in that department also do not specialize in East Asian economics; they are scholars of literature, sociology and anthropology, film, art, music.  The people doing East Asian economics are in the economics department. Those amazing classes on Chinese and global economics are ALSO in the economics department.  Seriously, I checked - you can look at our Directory of Classes here: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/bulletin/uwb/sel/dept-E.html.  The economics department has classes like "Economic Organization and Development of China"; the EALAC department has classes like "Introduction to the History of East Asian Literature."  The few classes I saw on economics in EALAC were on East Asian economic history.

 

To me, it seems less expensive and more beneficial for your career for you to apply directly to MBA programs with strong international/global programs.  Or, if you really want, you can do a dual-degree program with an international focus.  If you need to stay close, options include Columbia's MBA/MIA or Yale's MBA/MA program in global affairs.

 

Other suggestions are George Washington's http://elliott.gwu.edu/joint-degrees/ma-mba]MBA/MA (which you could do in Asian Studies, international affairs, or international trade and investment policy), or a special hybrid program, like Tufts' Master of International Business, or Chicago's MBA/MA in international relations.  Another really appealing option may be Georgetown, either their joint Masters of Science in Foreign Service/MBA program or just their straight MBA, because of Georgetown's business school's focus on global business leadership.