Dialectica Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 If placement is slightly better, then it probably doesn't make sense to go to the unfunded option. Perhaps "slightly" is misleading. I would say NIU's and VT's placement is more consistent than anything. While WMU's placement is fairly comparable in terms of the ranking of programs into which it places its graduates, the consistency is a concern of mine. (sorry to bump this conversation, but I haven't been on in a bit.)
Establishment Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Perhaps "slightly" is misleading. I would say NIU's and VT's placement is more consistent than anything. While WMU's placement is fairly comparable in terms of the ranking of programs into which it places its graduates, the consistency is a concern of mine. (sorry to bump this conversation, but I haven't been on in a bit.) That's why I said "if", just following the premise given by the OP. That said, one of the benefits of NIU is that it (1) may be possible to get funding your second year if not your first, (2) may be possible to get an out of state tuition waiver your first year (I got one when I was admitted without funding), and (3) it may be possible to TA in other departments if you're not successful in getting a TA position within philosophy. I don't think VT has the same opportunities, and I'd wager NIU's placement is superior to VT. So, these might make NIU be more attractive if debating between funded and unfunded offers. That said, this is a pretty big decision. There are a lot of "if"s going on here, and it is very hard to justify taking out any significant amount of loans given the prospects of PhD admissions and job placement in general.
logos0516 Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Does anyone know if CUNY sends out acceptances and waitlists all at once, or whether they send them out gradually over the course of a few weeks?
TheVineyard Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Does anyone know if CUNY sends out acceptances and waitlists all at once, or whether they send them out gradually over the course of a few weeks? This has been answered and discussed with you in particular multiple times on these forums. humean_skeptic and Establishment 1 1
Establishment Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 That's why I said "if", just following the premise given by the OP. That said, one of the benefits of NIU is that it (1) may be possible to get funding your second year if not your first, (2) may be possible to get an out of state tuition waiver your first year (I got one when I was admitted without funding), and (3) it may be possible to TA in other departments if you're not successful in getting a TA position within philosophy. I don't think VT has the same opportunities, and I'd wager NIU's placement is superior to VT. So, these might make NIU be more attractive if debating between funded and unfunded offers. That said, this is a pretty big decision. There are a lot of "if"s going on here, and it is very hard to justify taking out any significant amount of loans given the prospects of PhD admissions and job placement in general. Actually, just re-looked, it's not just an out of state tuition waiver, it's a straight up tuition waiver regardless of your state residency. (It's too late to re-edit)
logos0516 Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 This has been answered and discussed with you in particular multiple times on these forums. I'm NERVOUS, Vineyard. Humor me.
Establishment Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 I'm NERVOUS, Vineyard. Humor me. What did Bertrand Russell say when he saw Nietzsche at the bar? TheVineyard 1
Dialectica Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 That's why I said "if", just following the premise given by the OP. That said, one of the benefits of NIU is that it (1) may be possible to get funding your second year if not your first, (2) may be possible to get an out of state tuition waiver your first year (I got one when I was admitted without funding), and (3) it may be possible to TA in other departments if you're not successful in getting a TA position within philosophy. I don't think VT has the same opportunities, and I'd wager NIU's placement is superior to VT. So, these might make NIU be more attractive if debating between funded and unfunded offers. That said, this is a pretty big decision. There are a lot of "if"s going on here, and it is very hard to justify taking out any significant amount of loans given the prospects of PhD admissions and job placement in general. I understood you were just following the premise; I just wanted to correct myself more than anything. I applied for the tuition waiver; I'm hoping to hear back soon, as that would make NIU a much more reasonable option. Regarding Graduate Assistantships (this might make for a good thread): do you feel they give a leg up in PhD admissions in any way (e.g., better letters of rec, a significant boost on one's CV, better experience, etc.)? I ask because I've been offered one at WMU, but if funding comes through for NIU, and I attend as a result, I, at least in the first year, would not have a GA at NIU. (This question goes out to anyone, of course). I'm assuming you didn't get one (at least not initially), if you hadn't been given a funded offer.
jjwaq Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 The only thing that any kind of assistantship MIGHT do for you, besides get you a paycheck, is allow a letter-writer to get to know you more. It will have no other affect on the success of your future applications.
MattDest Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Regarding Graduate Assistantships (this might make for a good thread): do you feel they give a leg up in PhD admissions in any way (e.g., better letters of rec, a significant boost on one's CV, better experience, etc.)? I ask because I've been offered one at WMU, but if funding comes through for NIU, and I attend as a result, I, at least in the first year, would not have a GA at NIU. (This question goes out to anyone, of course). I'm assuming you didn't get one (at least not initially), if you hadn't been given a funded offer. I disagree with jjwaq, I think it very well could impact your application in a few different ways. The obvious way it impacts your application is it allows your letter writers to get to know you better, but I also think there are other reasons to think it might help. GAships usually involve one of three things: teaching your own course, grading a course for a professor, or researching with a professor. If a graduate school sees that you have taught several courses before, they might think that you would be able to handle teaching courses right away. It is another way that your application will stand out over someone who hasn't had the opportunity to teach at all. If you are grading for a professor, this will certainly give you the opportunity for your letter writers to say something more about you, and your ability to meet deadlines, to provide quality feedback, etc. It will also likely help them get to know you better than just taking their classes, going to their office hours, etc. The better your letter writers know you, the better they can speak to the quality of your work. The benefits of research positions are perhaps the best. If you are lucky enough to get a research position (I was!), you'll be able to work with a professor on their research. Not only could you get quality work out of it yourself, but this is just another way to differentiate you from other applicants. Having a top researcher say "X's help with my research..." is a definite way to improve your application. I don't know if any of these benefits should make you choose one program over the other, but I do think there are extra-financial positives to be had with GAships.
Cottagecheeseman Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Don't forget, UMass tomorrow! Also Virginia is gonna take me off the waitlist and Florida is going to accept me full funding into their MA program and while I'm dreaming USC is going to call me and go "oops we forgot about you, here's an extra fellowship come to USC and do philosophy." I'm serious though this week should be the last good week we have and then things will die off until about April when waitlists start to move. shelbyelisha, DHumeDominates, philosophe and 1 other 4
jjwaq Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 I will register my disagreement with MattDest on the non-financial benefits of assistantships. The only benefit he mentioned which is not related to the way a letter-writer knows you is that, if you have had an assistantship, you may appear as a student who is ready to teach courses right away. Since as many as half of the applications at top PhD programs come from MA students, and since nearly all of those receive financial aid in some form of an assistantship, I do not believe that having such a position will serve to distinguish your application very much. Further, the most desirable financial aid packages at PhD programs are those in which you receive funding for teaching less, or receive extra funding with no corresponding rise in teaching duties. A professor may well get to know you better as a result of an assistantship, and this may allow her to write more personal details into a letter. But unless your writing sample is already excellent, even special additions such as those are going to be irrelevant.
shelbyelisha Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 Don't forget, UMass tomorrow! How could I?! This has been the longest weekend. UMass is the last school for me to hear back from (aside from UConn, which I've just written off). I'm so excited for all of this to come to a close
MattDest Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 I will register my disagreement with MattDest on the non-financial benefits of assistantships. The only benefit he mentioned which is not related to the way a letter-writer knows you is that, if you have had an assistantship, you may appear as a student who is ready to teach courses right away. Since as many as half of the applications at top PhD programs come from MA students, and since nearly all of those receive financial aid in some form of an assistantship, I do not believe that having such a position will serve to distinguish your application very much. Further, the most desirable financial aid packages at PhD programs are those in which you receive funding for teaching less, or receive extra funding with no corresponding rise in teaching duties. A professor may well get to know you better as a result of an assistantship, and this may allow her to write more personal details into a letter. But unless your writing sample is already excellent, even special additions such as those are going to be irrelevant. It will not distinguish you from applicants who have the same credentials as you (how could it?), but it will distinguish you from those who were not awarded those positions at the MA level, and from undergrads who have never had those positions at all. I suspect that it's false that 'nearly all' applicants from MA programs were awarded funding by their program in the form of an assistantship. Even if it were true, though, that doesn't mean that having one wouldn't be a positive. (Given that all philosophy students have good GRE scores, we don't therefore think that having good GRE scores is not beneficial.) I'm a bit confused by your statement "unless your writing sample is already excellent, even special additions...to be irrelevant". The writing sample is by far the most important part of the application, but that wasn't the question that was asked. The question was whether there were any non-financial reasons to prefer an assistantship to not having one. I think there are - teaching and research in addition to improving your letters. Having an assistantship is just another feather in your applicant cap, and when admissions are this competitive, anything that positively sets you apart from other candidates is a good thing.
Dialectica Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 It will not distinguish you from applicants who have the same credentials as you (how could it?), but it will distinguish you from those who were not awarded those positions at the MA level, and from undergrads who have never had those positions at all. I suspect that it's false that 'nearly all' applicants from MA programs were awarded funding by their program in the form of an assistantship. Even if it were true, though, that doesn't mean that having one wouldn't be a positive. (Given that all philosophy students have good GRE scores, we don't therefore think that having good GRE scores is not beneficial.) I'm a bit confused by your statement "unless your writing sample is already excellent, even special additions...to be irrelevant". The writing sample is by far the most important part of the application, but that wasn't the question that was asked. The question was whether there were any non-financial reasons to prefer an assistantship to not having one. I think there are - teaching and research in addition to improving your letters. Having an assistantship is just another feather in your applicant cap, and when admissions are this competitive, anything that positively sets you apart from other candidates is a good thing. Thanks, MattDest, for the advice. What you have suggested I suspect is true, but some anecdotal confirmation is nice. My next question would be the following: given the benefits of an assistantship, should an assistantship from one MA program outweigh the offer from a higher ranked program with better placement, w/o an assistantship (in this case: WMU and NIU respectively)?
Establishment Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) Honestly, I think the value of an assistantship is in and of itself, and not in some outside aspect such as better access to profs and teaching experience. If I'm looking at two candidates: one who had an assistantship at M.A. Program X, and one who did not from M.A. Program Y, even if M.A. Program Y is ranked better and statistically places better than M.A. Program X, I'm going to think better of the candidate from M.A. Program X. The candidate from M.A. Program X was considered by the department attractive enough that they extended such financial awards to him. The candidate from M.A. Program Y, not so much. EDIT: This is just a general response to the above discussion. I didn't see Dialectica's response. I don't wish to imply anything particular about whether or not you should attend NIU or WMU. Edited March 10, 2014 by Establishment
MattDest Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 Thanks, MattDest, for the advice. What you have suggested I suspect is true, but some anecdotal confirmation is nice. My next question would be the following: given the benefits of an assistantship, should an assistantship from one MA program outweigh the offer from a higher ranked program with better placement, w/o an assistantship (in this case: WMU and NIU respectively)? If finances are a non-issue for you, I don't think that the other benefits of an assistantship would outweigh the better placement record of another MA program personally. Congrats on having all of those choices, by the way!
jjwaq Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 It is with the idea of something like the "applicant cap" that I disagree generally, and so the issue of an assistantship is an instance of that. I believe that thinking of one's application in this way distorts the important fact that the writing sample is not just "by far the most important part of the application," as you put it; for applicants who were not undergraduates at an Ivy, the importance of the writing sample so dwarfs the other aspects of an application that it is simply a waste of time to worry about the other parts of one's "applicant cap." In connection with this, it is misleading to talk about high GRE scores and grades as "beneficial" to one's application. They are only beneficial in the sense that, if you do not have them, your application will likely not be considered long enough for the writing sample to be read at all. They should be considered minimum requirements, not "bonuses" or extra feathers in one's cap. The only thing they will do is persuade an admissions committee to take a close look at your writing sample, and since an assistantship is far less important than GRE scores and grades, you should expect that it will do very little work in getting you admitted.
PhiPhiPhi Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 How could I?! This has been the longest weekend. UMass is the last school for me to hear back from (aside from UConn, which I've just written off). I'm so excited for all of this to come to a close May I ask why you've written off UConn?
shelbyelisha Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 May I ask why you've written off UConn? I suspect that I won't hear back from them until after April 15th, as their history suggests, and I suspect that I will be rejected anyway. I have an offer from another school, so I'd like to just accept that, be happy with it, and start getting prepared for September
Platonist Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 I'm serious though this week should be the last good week we have and then things will die off until about April when waitlists start to move. Yes, this is the last week that we will hear good news from schools like Michigan. Michigan will sent out the acceptances this week. Given many people will sit on the extra offers and wait lists for a while, the wait lists will not move significantly until April 15. Best of luck to all those who are dying to get off the wait lists. Zizeksucks, you WILL be accepted to UV off the wait list, because Lord of Analytic Philosophy is very pleased by your aspirations to serve analytic philosophy. Cottagecheeseman 1
PhiPhiPhi Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 I suspect that I won't hear back from them until after April 15th, as their history suggests, and I suspect that I will be rejected anyway. I have an offer from another school, so I'd like to just accept that, be happy with it, and start getting prepared for September I've never seen any evidence to suggest that they don't respond before April 15th. Do you have a link to that? They certainly are later in the game, but I imagine their acceptances will go out soon, and everyone will have until the 15th of April to decide (including those on waitlists), like every other school.
hopefulpessimiste Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 I'm very frustrated with Michigan now. Those first few acceptances were quite some time ago, and in their response to my query, they said that they hoped to have all their offers out by March 15th. But, why on Earth are their acceptanes so far apart? It would make sense if they sent out a number of first round acceptances, and were waiting to hear back before doing a second round. But from the results page research and info on the forum, it seems as though they sent out only a very few acceptances already. Why would their adcom make a small number of offers and then wait to make more? I know that being mad about this is silly because I won't get in anyway, but in addition to stringing me along, it's the principle that bothers me.
Cottagecheeseman Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 Yes, this is the last week that we will hear good news from schools like Michigan. Michigan will sent out the acceptances this week. Given many people will sit on the extra offers and wait lists for a while, the wait lists will not move significantly until April 15. Best of luck to all those who are dying to get off the wait lists. Zizeksucks, you WILL be accepted to UV off the wait list, because Lord of Analytic Philosophy is very pleased by your aspirations to serve analytic philosophy. I hope so too! Are you waiting on waitlists as well?
Flipflophero Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 Thanks, MattDest, for the advice. What you have suggested I suspect is true, but some anecdotal confirmation is nice. My next question would be the following: given the benefits of an assistantship, should an assistantship from one MA program outweigh the offer from a higher ranked program with better placement, w/o an assistantship (in this case: WMU and NIU respectively)? Would you pick NIU over Virginia Tech if you went with an unfunded offer? Just curious; I am in a similar boat with NIU and VT.
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