Another potential dropout thread

[buylotusonitunes]

I'm in my first year of grad school and I'm seriously considering dropping out. Warning: long read ahead

One of the main reasons why I applied to grad school was because I didnt really like the idea of looking for a job and the fact that people kept telling me "oh grad school opens so many doors. You really should get a PhD if you want to get a job"
I felt like the people who were able to get jobs (in chemistry) right away (after a bachelors) were the ones who did REU's and were super smart and tons of research experience. I was the complete opposite. Probably the worst chemistry student in my class year with limited research experience to be honest. I didnt really know it at the time (or even put into thought into it) but the research I did during undergrad didnt make me particularly marketable. As in the research that my adviser did was very niche and theoretical? (I dont know how else to put it) 
Part of me wishes I had chosen a more synthetic lab...that way I at least could have become really good at running columns and analyzing NMR's or something. 

Its only been a semester but I'm just so sick of school at this point. I'm so sick of spending entire days in libraries, sick of problem sets, and sick of testing. Some people are really good at balancing work and free time. Not me. I literally have to spend every waking minute studying to do well in school and I just feel so burnt out after what feels like a lifetime of just studying non-stop. 

Location is also a factor. Grad school is in the middle of nowhere. I thought it would be a non-factor but it is. I absolutely cannot stand it. I regret not applying to schools in big cities. Oh and if you couldn't tell by my screen name, I'm a dude that likes dudes. You can already imagine how many gays there are in the middle of nowhere. Yea, its a problem. I'm lonely as f#%k
and I miss my family and I miss my friends back home (two weeks a year really isnt gonna cut it)

My parents say they dont care if I get a PhD or not but I can tell they obviously want me to get one. I'd be the first in the family with a graduate degree (in a useful subject) so I almost feel kind of selfish/guilty for wanting to drop out to be honest. I know I'm not going to be happy stuck in grad school but at the same time, I dont want to disappoint them either. 

I'm not doing that great academically either. I took two classes last semester. I did well in one of them and really bad in the other...as in academic probation bad...I have never done this bad ever). The adviser I wanted wouldn't let me into her group because of how poorly I did in that class so yea, I dont even had a group at this point. She thinks I'm lazy when really I've just been depressed. Like the kind of depressed that you need to go to a therapist and take anti-depressants. Its very hard to be motivated when you can think about is how lonely you are and wondering if you're just stupid. 

But what else can I possibly do with just a Bachelors? I'm not even necessarily looking for a job in chemistry. 
What the hell are employers gonna think when they see a chemistry degree? . 
I dont really have any marketable skills (that I can think of) and I dont have the money to go to learn something entirely new. 

I've considered teaching high school (I dont really enjoy TA'ing and Im not super social. But I could be closer to home and 15 weeks off a year doesnt sound too bad and pay is decent). 
I am also really worried about how that bad grade from my first semester of grad school is going to affect my chances of applying to a Master's in Education program to be honest. 
 

[Quantum Buckyball]

I'm in my first year of grad school and I'm seriously considering dropping out. Warning: long read ahead

One of the main reasons why I applied to grad school was because I didnt really like the idea of looking for a job and the fact that people kept telling me "oh grad school opens so many doors. You really should get a PhD if you want to get a job"

I felt like the people who were able to get jobs (in chemistry) right away (after a bachelors) were the ones who did REU's and were super smart and tons of research experience. I was the complete opposite. Probably the worst chemistry student in my class year with limited research experience to be honest. I didnt really know it at the time (or even put into thought into it) but the research I did during undergrad didnt make me particularly marketable. As in the research that my adviser did was very niche and theoretical? (I dont know how else to put it) 

Part of me wishes I had chosen a more synthetic lab...that way I at least could have become really good at running columns and analyzing NMR's or something. 

Its only been a semester but I'm just so sick of school at this point. I'm so sick of spending entire days in libraries, sick of problem sets, and sick of testing. Some people are really good at balancing work and free time. Not me. I literally have to spend every waking minute studying to do well in school and I just feel so burnt out after what feels like a lifetime of just studying non-stop. 

Location is also a factor. Grad school is in the middle of nowhere. I thought it would be a non-factor but it is. I absolutely cannot stand it. I regret not applying to schools in big cities. Oh and if you couldn't tell by my screen name, I'm a dude that likes dudes. You can already imagine how many gays there are in the middle of nowhere. Yea, its a problem. I'm lonely as f#%k

and I miss my family and I miss my friends back home (two weeks a year really isnt gonna cut it)

My parents say they dont care if I get a PhD or not but I can tell they obviously want me to get one. I'd be the first in the family with a graduate degree (in a useful subject) so I almost feel kind of selfish/guilty for wanting to drop out to be honest. I know I'm not going to be happy stuck in grad school but at the same time, I dont want to disappoint them either. 

I'm not doing that great academically either. I took two classes last semester. I did well in one of them and really bad in the other...as in academic probation bad...I have never done this bad ever). The adviser I wanted wouldn't let me into her group because of how poorly I did in that class so yea, I dont even had a group at this point. She thinks I'm lazy when really I've just been depressed. Like the kind of depressed that you need to go to a therapist and take anti-depressants. Its very hard to be motivated when you can think about is how lonely you are and wondering if you're just stupid. 

But what else can I possibly do with just a Bachelors? I'm not even necessarily looking for a job in chemistry. 

What the hell are employers gonna think when they see a chemistry degree? . 

I dont really have any marketable skills (that I can think of) and I dont have the money to go to learn something entirely new. 

I've considered teaching high school (I dont really enjoy TA'ing and Im not super social. But I could be closer to home and 15 weeks off a year doesnt sound too bad and pay is decent). 

I am also really worried about how that bad grade from my first semester of grad school is going to affect my chances of applying to a Master's in Education program to be honest. 

 

 

I'm sorry to hear that you're not enjoying your first year, first year is usually the toughest, and I personally know a couple of people decided to leave the program after their first or second semester. If your end goal is to get a job in the industry then a Masters degree is sufficient, and a PhD program's rank might not be that important as long as you are productive. 

 

You may

 

(1) stick with your current program and leave with an external Masters degree and get a job at a pharmaceutical/chemical company

 

(2) apply to a PhD program with 3+ research groups that you find interesting or in a better location

 

(3) get a MBA degree, a business and a hard science degree would make you pretty marketable

 

(4) if you don't mind sick people, then you could get a nursing degree from a community college, or physician assistant degree 

 

(5) if you don't like people in general, then you could go into Computer Science and learn about programming and become a programmer.

[Academics]

While Mr Quantum has made a fantastic suggestion, I will not hesitate to point out the fact that "Buylotusonitunes" needs more than a job at this time. From the account he gave of himself, It is reasonable to conclude that he is lonely and somewhat depressed. Here is my 5 cent - On top of the above suggested way out, try and socialise even if it may not go well with you initially, soon, you will get use to it and find it interesting. Call family and friends and request that they call you periodically. Let love ones know that you need them at this crucial point in your life and most importantly, encourage yourself everyday. I will personally not advice you to drop out. I hope to meet you someday when I come to the US. I know you can! Please don't drop out!! You may want to encourage yourself with the article in the link below. It is a great piece by a graduate Student at Harvard University.

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/2/1/happiness-self-worth/

[buylotusonitunes]

 

 

(5) if you don't like people in general, then you could go into Computer Science and learn about programming and become a programmer.

 

From google, I've noticed that a good number of people who drop out of grad school go with this route. But I've never taken any comp sci classes and I wouldnt know where to start. 

Ive considered taking/auditing an intro comp sci course right now but they all conflict with my current chem courses

 

 

 

 

(2) apply to a PhD program with 3+ research groups that you find interesting or in a better location

 

Is this even possible? I thought it was impossible to transfer

[Quantum Buckyball]

You could use Khan Academy or other free online resource to learn about programming first.

GA Tech recently started an online-based Masters in Computer Science for only $7000 USD (for the entire program).

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/first-massive-online-degree-program-begins-wednesd/ncnyF/

To answer your second question, it would be very difficult to transfer to another PhD program and you most likely have to re-apply and go through another application cycle. I know a couple of people have done this route and they're a lot more happier now.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Quantum Buckyball

[St Andrews Lynx]

I would recommend sitting down and having a serious think about what it is you want to with your career, because it sounds like you aren't really sure. What are the things you enjoy doing and the skills you most enjoy using? There are plenty of jobs out there that involve something like "thinking for yourself", "working with lots of different kinds of people" or "always learning new things". 

 

Ignore your family when it comes to making a decision about continuing with the PhD. Their possible mild disappointment is far outweighed by your happiness/unhappiness with the current situation. You yourself know what is in your best interests, stick with that. 

 

If you do decide to drop out then don't feel you have to find a perfect solution & job immediately. Look for internships in your area(s) of interest. If being in a city is something that makes you happy, maybe move to a city and take some sort of 9-5 job that allows you to enjoy city life while getting an income. You can always reapply to grad school in a year or two once you've better-figured out where you're going professionally. 

[NYLA]

Regarding transferring programs: this is definitely doable via a few avenues. These are things that I've seen or heard of people doing (either to or from the schools I went to)

 

1) If you have a contact (a PI at another program) that would be willing to take you in (and you know they are and the program is a better fit) you should try to contact them directly; but usually this requires a pre-existing connection with a PI

 

2) You can reapply to graduate schools in the next cycle. Ideally you would leave your current program with a masters degree; unfortunately a bad record at your current program will not help you here

 

3) Contact the chair of a department that you were previously admitted to and you may be able to arrange a transfer to that program

 

But before you do any of these you should really evaluate what it is that's making you miserable in graduate school; if it's the location, your advisor woes, and/or the subfield you have found yourself in then there might really be a better fit for you. If it's school itself or chemistry as a whole then I would advise you to spend some time really looking at what you want to do instead and go for it. 

[Quantum Buckyball]

I would recommend sitting down and having a serious think about what it is you want to with your career, because it sounds like you aren't really sure. What are the things you enjoy doing and the skills you most enjoy using? There are plenty of jobs out there that involve something like "thinking for yourself", "working with lots of different kinds of people" or "always learning new things". 

 

Ignore your family when it comes to making a decision about continuing with the PhD. Their possible mild disappointment is far outweighed by your happiness/unhappiness with the current situation. You yourself know what is in your best interests, stick with that. 

 

If you do decide to drop out then don't feel you have to find a perfect solution & job immediately. Look for internships in your area(s) of interest. If being in a city is something that makes you happy, maybe move to a city and take some sort of 9-5 job that allows you to enjoy city life while getting an income. You can always reapply to grad school in a year or two once you've better-figured out where you're going professionally. 

 

I find it very disturbing that this trend has been viewed by 325 times and yet only a couple of people were willing to give advice and constructive feedback.

[Boron]

I find it very disturbing that this trend has been viewed by 325 times and yet only a couple of people were willing to give advice and constructive feedback.

I've been a lurker all this time, but you called me out I made an account.

 

I would recommend sitting down and having a serious think about what it is you want to with your career, because it sounds like you aren't really sure. What are the things you enjoy doing and the skills you most enjoy using? There are plenty of jobs out there that involve something like "thinking for yourself", "working with lots of different kinds of people" or "always learning new things". 

 

Ignore your family when it comes to making a decision about continuing with the PhD. Their possible mild disappointment is far outweighed by your happiness/unhappiness with the current situation. You yourself know what is in your best interests, stick with that. 

 

If you do decide to drop out then don't feel you have to find a perfect solution & job immediately. Look for internships in your area(s) of interest. If being in a city is something that makes you happy, maybe move to a city and take some sort of 9-5 job that allows you to enjoy city life while getting an income. You can always reapply to grad school in a year or two once you've better-figured out where you're going professionally.

Definitely agree with this. Although I am applying to PhD programs right now for Fall 2014, I am actually already in a Masters program (PI has no funding, tells me to look for other schools) and have experienced graduate life. Throughout these past year and a half, I have seen a few PhD students drop out, meaning they either decided to opt out of the PhD program and to the M.S. program or just literally disappear one day. Take some time thinking about what you want to do, and if a PhD is right for you. Don't get discouraged by posts on the internet about the lack of job market if you don't get a PhD. I know a friend that got a B.S. and did not want to go to graduate school. He got a job at J&J, whom picked him up due to his experience with a few good REU's. He started as a Senior lab tech a year ago and is already "promoted" to become a R&D engineer.

 

A bit off topic:

I am a bit annoyed, but to other applicants: if you apply to a PhD program, know what you want to study (what specific field). I know you may say "inorganic" or "organic", etc...but that is too general imo. I see some people whom accept offers to "top schools" but realize a year or two into the program that they aren't studying the area that they want to be in (and none of the professors is studying the topic in the school). Seriously know what you want to study before you take the offer. Do some research and know you will enjoy your experience. You're investing 5 years of your life into it; know that this is what you want to do with your life.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Boron

[DropTheBase]

I find it very disturbing that this trend has been viewed by 325 times and yet only a couple of people were willing to give advice and constructive feedback.

 

I'm not surprised at all. The majority of people viewing the chemistry forum right now are not yet in grad school. The probably don't feel comfortable giving advice.

 

@buylotusonitunes

 

I'm not sure how much time you put into thinking about quitting grad school, but it's a serious decision that appears to make much more sense during periods of high stress. The beginning of chemistry grad school is very overwhelming because there are so many things that need to be done simultaneously. I don't know the details of your program, but soon enough you will be done with classes. When those are over, you will come home at the end of the day and actually relax, rather than continue doing homework and studying. Just make it through your classes. Aside from making sure you pass, your grades don't really matter. Talk to the appropriate departmental staff. Find the path that keeps you afloat (i.e. "at least a C- in this class, at least a B in my next two classes")

 

As for getting into the group you want. People here might disagree with me, but I think all research is interesting (otherwise it wouldn't be done in the first place). Be proactive about finding another group. Given that the PI is a decent person, you can succeed in ANY group. All research will require you to learn new skills, so it doesn't matter what you know or didn't know before arriving to graduate school. You'll catch up soon enough.

 

Remember that you are not stupid; somebody on the admissions committee, a faculty member, actually argued for you being admitted. Don't compare yourself to other students. Half the time I hear about how other students spend so many hours in lab including time on weekends, and in reality it turns out they're just staring at their computer screens on Facebook until their PI's walk up to them. Don't listen to the noise. And if you do, make sure it inspires you, rather than makes you feel inferior. 

 

Grad school will soon become like a job that you plan to take anyway if you quit grad school, except it's much more rewarding (not financially ). You just need to make it through the classes. If the rewards aren't worth it, that's completely fine and there's nothing wrong with that. If that's the case, consider the very good advice above (Quantum and Lynx, for example). Sometimes our brains naturally pile on all the bad things in our situations to make tough decisions easier. I just wanted to make sure you knew that there is still plenty of hope for your success in grad school and that quitting is not the only option.

[Boron]

Is this even possible? I thought it was impossible to transfer

 

 

To answer your second question, it would be very difficult to transfer to another PhD program and you most likely have to re-apply and go through another application cycle. I know a couple of people have done this route and they're a lot more happier now.

 

Yes. Although I am not in a PhD program, but the M.S. program, I can say that you have to reapply to schools again in order to "transfer". I am unsure whether or not schools like/dislike that you have a M.S. in Chemistry already, but I've read from a few schools' FAQ that you must have your current PI as one of the recommendators, as they want to know that you are leaving your PI and the school in good terms (not suddenly ditching the school).

[YaBoyAR]

I find it very disturbing that this trend has been viewed by 325 times and yet only a couple of people were willing to give advice and constructive feedback.

Lol. What are we supposed to say? The OP doesn't like studying or doing research in their field of choice. Clearly, it's time they get out or pursue another field. Pretty cut and dry situation that doesn't require 325 responses.

OP should find out what excites them and intrigues them, and then pursue it. Who cares what your family thinks? Join some clubs and make some friends or seek out a therapist for the depression. If you don't like the location, move. All of this is quite clear.

Edited January 20, 2014 by YaBoyAR

[buylotusonitunes]

Lol. What are we supposed to say? The OP doesn't like studying or doing research in their field of choice. Clearly, it's time they get out or pursue another field. Pretty cut and dry situation that doesn't require 325 responses.

OP should find out what excites them and intrigues them, and then pursue it. Who cares what your family thinks? Join some clubs and make some friends or seek out a therapist for the depression. If you don't like the location, move. All of this is quite clear.

well I never said I disliked doing research. (or maybe I did/it was implied idk)

I don't know if I can handle 2 more years of classes though...plus 5 years of being in the middle of nowhere.

I dont know where to begin with pursuing another field. Its not like can I do undergrad all over again. 

[YaBoyAR]

well I never said I disliked doing research. (or maybe I did/it was implied idk)

I don't know if I can handle 2 more years of classes though...plus 5 years of being in the middle of nowhere.

I dont know where to begin with pursuing another field. Its not like can I do undergrad all over again.

You can pursue a second degree. Bachelor or masters in an unrelated field. Happens all the time. Although, all will require studying and taking classes. You could become a salesperson or a server or a bum. It's up to you to decide. I don't know what interests you.

[YaBoyAR]

I don't mean to sound like a prick even though, looking back, that's how it seems. I just think people should do what they want. And if you want something you should work hard for it. If you haven't found that yet then just keep looking until you do.

[Boron]

well I never said I disliked doing research. (or maybe I did/it was implied idk)

I don't know if I can handle 2 more years of classes though...plus 5 years of being in the middle of nowhere.

I dont know where to begin with pursuing another field. Its not like can I do undergrad all over again. 

 

Honestly, being 5 years should not be a big problem if, as YaBoyAR said, you found something you would work hard for. I am unsure how your current research group is, but my current research group is pretty strict, and I literally go in early in the morning and get off by the time the sun is down. I barely have time to even noticed if there is nothing or a city outside the department.

 

P.S. I'm wondering what year are you in that requires you to take 2 more years of classes? Assuming that you're a first year, that means you don't complete your courses until your third year?

Edited January 20, 2014 by Boron

[buylotusonitunes]

I don't mean to sound like a prick even though, looking back, that's how it seems. I just think people should do what they want. And if you want something you should work hard for it. If you haven't found that yet then just keep looking until you do.

easier said than done tbqh. 

like I have no problem with the idea of working hard towards a second bachelors but I dont have the money to pay for it. 

[nugget]

Given my field of study, I don't think I would have much constructive advice to offer and I'm confident that there are some others out there in a similar situation.

 

At this point, it seems clear that a second bachelors is off the table, which would leave the OP with chosing between doing a different graduate degree or finding a job (until he figures out what he wants to do with his life).

 

If you aren't too swamped with work, the book What Color is Your Parachute? might be worth a quick read if you're having trouble figuring this all out. It's been a bestselling career book for years.

 

I find it very disturbing that this trend has been viewed by 325 times and yet only a couple of people were willing to give advice and constructive feedback.

Edited January 21, 2014 by jenste

[Synth]

Hey lotus,

 

It sounds to me (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), that you're depressed and that's preventing you from enjoying chemistry and potentially the graduate student experience.

 

I don't think it's fair to say that you're not passionate about chemistry, or that this isn't what you want to do- because depression and loneliness is incredibly real and all consuming, especially for lgbtq people in the sciences. I say this as a third year lgbtq graduate student. I love chemistry, I know it, but when I was depressed it was hard for me to feel like I liked anything. All I felt was that it was miserable and lonely.

 

The most important thing is addressing the isolation and depression that you're experiencing. Without addressing that, moving from field to field or job to job isn't going to matter very much.

 

What helped me the most was finding people to talk to (especially people who are lgbtq in the sciences), and realizing that I had options (even if I didn't end up taking some of the options, like transferring). Let me know via pm if you need a contact. I have quite a few contacts in various chemistry positions. I know of quite a few graduate students, postdocs, and professors who are lgbtq and have gone to graduate school all across the country and can offer some perspective on what different things that you could do to address the isolation that you feel without feeling like you have to give up entirely on your graduate career.

 

I hope everything gets worked out!

Synth.

[QuantumBiology]

Praying that you will find joy and guidance.

[Alchemist921]

@Buylotusonitunes: Yeah why don't you consider reapplying somewhere in a bigger city. For example, how about NYU or CUNY? Living in NYC as a gay chemistry PhD student has its benefits. I am personally considering the same thing.