Loric Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 You don't determine fit. The adcom does. Jeeze there's so much arrogance - "it's unknowable" oh but.. "we know this.." Make up your convoluted minds. Back to the skeleton: I didn't know about the skeleton bit. I was clever - I ASKED. I found out. I was even more clever and asked to be given a chance to show them my skeleton sketching abilities. If I had done nothing, not asked, not requested, not probed, not established a rapport with my admissions adviser.. why.. none of that would have happened and I would have likely been flat out rejected for my ignorance of the "skeleton criteria." But here we have a bunch of people assuming a bunch of things and saying it's all out of their hands in stead of even trying to do anything about it. Bunch of fatalist .. well, think consonance to finish that phrase. ("rhymes with mucktards"). They've tested no theories, attempted nothing, tried no other means.. just assumed.. assumed.. assumed. jjb919, Griswald, greencoloredpencil and 3 others 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Table Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Back to the skeleton: I didn't know about the skeleton bit. I was clever - I ASKED. I found out. I was even more clever and asked to be given a chance to show them my skeleton sketching abilities. If I had done nothing, not asked, not requested, not probed, not established a rapport with my admissions adviser.. why.. none of that would have happened and I would have likely been flat out rejected for my ignorance of the "skeleton criteria." I have no idea what is happening. marXian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loric Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 I have no idea what is happening. It's really not even that complicated.. See? See?!?! Not everyone is "the best" - I wonder what "fit" you all would have said he was perfect for.. jjb919 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVineyard Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 This might be too optimistic, but I wonder if inferring that you're on some kind of a wait list, until you get an official rejection, is equally justified. Equally justified would, IMO, mean equally likely. I really can't speculate...I guess I should just remove that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVineyard Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) You don't determine fit. The adcom does. What? I thought that YOU could determine it and so could we! Teach us how! How can I know which schools to apply to or how to tailor my personal statement if I can't determine the level of fit! Edited January 29, 2014 by TheVineyard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loric Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Equally justified would, IMO, mean equally likely. I really can't speculate...I guess I should just remove that. So what if it turns out you're wrong..? Not that I am disagreeing.. if you think you're going to fail I'd up and let you if I was on the adcom.. it's not that hard to spot that personality type. Just food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loric Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 What? I thought that YOU could determine it and so could we! Teach us how! They determine, you discover what their criteria is. What you defined as "fit" was wrong. He did not fit, was not accepted. Logically you go back and see what he is.. and find out why he didn't fit.. but if you assume he fit, then you're right, you're never going to know what their fit is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griswald Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Equally justified would, IMO, mean equally likely. I really can't speculate...I guess I should just remove that. Yeah neither can I, I was just wondering. Anyway, at this stage, I don't think it's very likely that you've been rejected at those places (modulo the fact that, for each of us at a given school, it's pretty likely that we'll get rejected!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SelfHatingPhilosopher Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Seriously, why persist in the delusion that a failure to gain acceptance into a Philosophy program is in no way a reflection of yourself and your ability to put out a good application? Admissions are not random. They do not flip coins. They judge people and their applications based on whatever criteria they feel like, and yes, to an extent you cannot control that criteria, but being prepared and having a "good" application is a far cry from sitting around saying it's all "random" and that you'd statistically not be accepted (hello, they chose SOME people who weren't you, so obviously it's possible.) I'm not one to think not getting in makes you a bad person or anything, but I certainly believe that blaming everyone and everything else - at this point, the flip of a coin and fate - as being the reason for not getting in is just absurd and reflects perhaps the plethora of reasons you weren't accepted or wont be accepted in the first place. And perhaps if you, philosophy hopeful, accepted that a bad application will mean rejection much moreso than a good application (which while still possible, is significantly less statistically so) then MAYBE you can take the steps needed to solidify your having of a GOOD application and then stand a decent chance at garnering the admission you so crave. But no, instead sit around saying it's all random, there's no hope, and there's nothing you can do. Let me know how far that gets you. You may have done your best, and perhaps your best was not good enough. Welcome to the real world. There are no A's for effort here. Do better, be better, and you'll be seen as better. Want to get in? Have a better application. Make your best better than it is. That's the difference between in and out. 10/10, would read again. I liked the part where the outsider contradicts what philsophy graduate program admission committees universally say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVineyard Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 They determine, you discover what their criteria is. What you defined as "fit" was wrong. He did not fit, was not accepted. Logically you go back and see what he is.. and find out why he didn't fit.. but if you assume he fit, then you're right, you're never going to know what their fit is. You still haven't told me how to determine if UNC considers me a good fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loric Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 You still haven't told me how to determine if UNC considers me a good fit. That you can't figure that out is your problem.. I'm not here to get you into programs you obviously wont succeed in. ta_pros_to_telos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iExcelAtMicrosoftPuns Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Human decisions are never truly random. People are intentional creatures we do things with intentions. Do we always know these intentions? No. Do we always act in the best possible way to achieve intentions? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loric Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Human decisions are never truly random. People are intentional creatures we do things with intentions. Do we always know these intentions? No. Do we always act in the best possible way to achieve intentions? No. And acknowledging that puts you a few miles ahead of the rest of the pool.. want to apply to philosophy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Table Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Why are you drawing skeletons??? HansK2012 and marXian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVineyard Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 That you can't figure that out is your problem.. I'm not here to get you into programs you obviously wont succeed in. So you don't actually know how. That's what I thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loric Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Why are you drawing skeletons??? Because I had a random a-hole on my adcom who decided my ability to draw skeletons was soooo important to my field of study (it's not, but he's on the adcom so today he's right, and i'm right for adapting to his whim and doing it with a big stupid smile and pretending he wasn't completely wasting my time and energy on something completely baseless and ridiculous) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loric Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 So you don't actually know how. That's what I thought No, i dont know how to get into whatever particular school you'll cite. I never claimed to. I did claim to be resourceful and say that if you're truly interested and want to be considered seriously, YOU need to find out. That's in your best interest. It's not unknowable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cottagecheeseman Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHumeDominates Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 What's with these quotas of positive (and, I assume, negative) votes? My quota is like 2. Haha. But this actually frustrates me. I should probably voice this concern to an administrator ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catwoman15 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I have like...zero idea of what this thread is about anymore. But, I honestly don't think it's a bad idea to start thinking of this whole shebang as largely 'random' from our own point of view. Why does someone with a worse CV than you get the job you both interviewed for? Fit. Why does someone else get into grad school over you when you both have similarly posed applications? Fit. Why does someone get the grant or fellowship you wanted so badly, when you have more experience than them? Fit. What does Fit mean? Whatever the adcom/search committee think it means. Can you know what that is? Sure...If you're the adcom/search committee. Or, if you know someone who knows someone on the search committee (even then, though, they may not know). At this point there are so many qualified people for SO MANY THINGS at many levels of competition within academia that trying to determine all of the variables and perfectly positioning yourself along each axis is impossible. You gotta be the best you can be. You gotta do the most work you can. Go to the most conferences. Read the most. Meet the most scholars. Win the most awards. Publish the most and in the best journals you can. Then, if you do all of that--you may still not get a job. You may still not finish your dissertation. Some of you may never get into graduate school. But that's life y'all. It isn't random, but from where I sit, it's certainly got a logic that verges on incoherent. murial and marXian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iExcelAtMicrosoftPuns Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 What's with these quotas of positive (and, I assume, negative) votes? My quota is like 2. Haha. But this actually frustrates me. I should probably voice this concern to an administrator ... up/down vote quotas are established randomly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs_doubtfire Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) I usually resist the urge of feeding a troll/engaging with someone whose ignorance and naivety is so impressive, but I couldn't help myself. I take it that Loric's advice to philosophy applicants is something like: contact every department to which you're applying. Ask them who will be on the admissions committee. Contact the people who will be on the admissions committee. Ask them highly detailed and specific questions about what they think a "good" philosophy student looks like. Do this for every person who will be on the committee. Then, cater your application to each person's wishes. Shame on you dummies and lazy folk for not figuring this simple plan out on your own! The reason why this advice is terrible should be self-evident to every student of philosophy. But in case it's not...no philosopher in a reputable program is going to volunteer any of this information to you. And I would even guess that the mere request for this kind of information (i.e., what do I need to put into my application so that you'll accept me?) will reflect poorly on you as an applicant. Loric, I don't know what world you live in, but I would sure love to vacation in it once in a while. Things in your world seem so simple and to unfold in accordance with all of your desires and wishes. in particular, I admire the feature of your world that makes the path to success as simple and effortless as "being the best." If only that feature could be found in the actual world that I live in! Edited January 29, 2014 by mrs_doubtfire jjb919 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHumeDominates Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 up/down vote quotas are established randomly. Randomly?! That's absurd. Can they be changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loric Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 I usually resist the urge of feeding a troll/engaging with someone whose ignorance and naivety is so impressive, but I couldn't help myself. I take it that Loric's advice to philosophy applicants is something like: contact every department to which you're applying. Ask them who will be on the admissions committee. Contact the people who will be on the admissions committee. Ask them highly detailed and specific questions about what they think a "good" philosophy student looks like. Do this for every person who will be on the committee. Then, cater your application to each person's wishes. Shame on you dummies and lazy folk for not figuring this simple plan out on your own! The reason why this advice is terrible should be self-evident to every student of philosophy. But in case it's not...no philosopher in a reputable program is going to volunteer any of this information to you. And I would even guess that the mere request for this kind of information (i.e., what do I need to put into my application so that you'll accept me?) will reflect poorly on you as an applicant. Loric, I don't know what world you live in, but I would sure love to vacation in it once in a while. Things in your world seem so simple and to unfold in accordance with all of your desires and wishes. in particular, I admire the feature of your world that makes the path to success as simple and effortless as "being the best." If only that feature could be found in the actual world that I live in! I said be resourceful, not be an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loric Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Query: Is there anyone around these parts who did happen to get in..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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