Department Environments - How can we know?

[m-ttl]

I'd like to pose the question, now that interviews and acceptances (and rejections) will be piling up for folks in Art History. Having seen the news from UC Boulder's Philosophy department:

 

 

 

The University of Colorado on Friday made public an independent investigation that found pervasive sexual harassment and bullying within the philosophy department, a report that has now led administrators to remove the chairman and suspend all graduate student admissions into the department until at least fall 2015.

 

 I was both shocked and concerned. [You can read the news here, and the full report here.] In the Philosophy sub-forums, no one seemed to have any idea things were that bad, and applied anyways. Certainly student's professors didn't know and ward them off from applying. 

 

So: how do we best get the pulse of such environments that we're going to be putting ourselves into for 2-6+ years? Have your professors warded you off from particular departments? I know one of my professors dealt with a lot of sexism at her PhD university (This would have been, I think, near the boon of feminist Art History in the 70's) but the people who taught her are long gone from what I understand, so obviously things change as people retire or die or are simply replaced.

 

Are you asking about the quality of departmental relations in interviews, or contacting current students?

 

What's the best way to find this out, or bring it up? 

 

 

[BuddingScholar]

I'd like to pose the question, now that interviews and acceptances (and rejections) will be piling up for folks in Art History. Having seen the news from UC Boulder's Philosophy department:

 

 

 I was both shocked and concerned. [You can read the news here, and the full report here.] In the Philosophy sub-forums, no one seemed to have any idea things were that bad, and applied anyways. Certainly student's professors didn't know and ward them off from applying. 

 

So: how do we best get the pulse of such environments that we're going to be putting ourselves into for 2-6+ years? Have your professors warded you off from particular departments? I know one of my professors dealt with a lot of sexism at her PhD university (This would have been, I think, near the boon of feminist Art History in the 70's) but the people who taught her are long gone from what I understand, so obviously things change as people retire or die or are simply replaced.

 

Are you asking about the quality of departmental relations in interviews, or contacting current students?

 

What's the best way to find this out, or bring it up? 

 

I think that's a great question!

 

I have tried to visit a few schools and talk with some of their students also. But I am trying not to worry too much about it at this point since I don't even know which schools will accept/reject me. Once I hear back from more schools, I am planning to visit the ones that accept me. I've heard back from one school so far and I am planning to visit it in the end of the month. Hopefully that will give me a better sense of the school at large, the department, the faculty, and the student body.

[poliscar]

First of all, I think that Art History is much better than Philosophy—Philosophy departments can still quite often be very tied in to the old boys-club model of academia. The 70s, like you mention, was a critical period for feminist Art History, but it was also a very conflicted period. There was a lot of resistance to social and theoretical histories of art, much of which were feminist. A lot of that was due to resistance from old formalist and connoisseurship based scholars. That's not to say that formalism/connoisseurship = sexism, but there was a lot of questioning of the validity of feminist approaches (and Marxist, psychoanalytic, structuralist, etc) as worthwhile grounds for research. 

Other than that, I would say you should definitely try to contact female students in your departments of interest. 

[m-ttl]

First of all, I think that Art History is much better than Philosophy—Philosophy departments can still quite often be very tied in to the old boys-club model of academia. The 70s, like you mention, was a critical period for feminist Art History, but it was also a very conflicted period. There was a lot of resistance to social and theoretical histories of art, much of which were feminist. A lot of that was due to resistance from old formalist and connoisseurship based scholars. That's not to say that formalism/connoisseurship = sexism, but there was a lot of questioning of the validity of feminist approaches (and Marxist, psychoanalytic, structuralist, etc) as worthwhile grounds for research. 

Other than that, I would say you should definitely try to contact female students in your departments of interest. 

 

To be sure, I have noticed the gender balance is, I think, comparatively much better (even just examining the forum's conduct/reactions). But that certainly doesn't say, alleviate concerns of general bullying or unprofessionalism.

 

It also doesn't address other concerns some of us might have -- sure, the old boy's club might not be as wide spread anymore, but does that fix other micro-aggressions? I've rarely faced sexist comments (and never harassment) in my undergraduate art history classes. But micro-aggressions about race? 

 

Well, that's another story entirely. It doesn't come from Professors, as often as it comes from fellow students and "guest speakers", etc. I don't honestly believe I would find a place free of such behavior, but I would like to think I could find a department or school which would have support for me when it does happen. Being a person of color, or someone who is LGBTQ also comes with its own concerns to navigate. I wish it was as easy as "Well there is less sexism in our field." That wouldn't preclude instances of harassment, assault, micro-aggressions, etc. 

 

It seems like general questions can be asked in interviews: Do you feel students and faculty are comfortable with the environment of the department? How do you feel the general attitude of the department comes off? (Driven? Competitive? Cooperative? etc) Are there resources available to meet the needs of students? What sort of association do they have? Is it school-wide? Departmental? What is the composition of the student body like?

 

But other, more in-depth questions might be better directed at students, and searched for on websites: Do you feel safe in your department? What kinds of Graduate student associations/unions are there? (E.G.: Black Graduate association, Latino, AAPI, LGBTQ graduate association, etc) Are they active? What purposes do they serve? Would people in those orgs (if you ask) state they feel safe on campus? Not just like there is an active community, but safe, unafraid, not harassed. Is there support (or at the very least, community) when you encounter discrimination or aggressions? Safe spaces/places? 

 

These were all things I was very concerned about when I initially applied to undergraduate schools. Graduate school feels like it should be no different, in that respect. 

[condivi]

To be sure, I have noticed the gender balance is, I think, comparatively much better (even just examining the forum's conduct/reactions). But that certainly doesn't say, alleviate concerns of general bullying or unprofessionalism.

 

It also doesn't address other concerns some of us might have -- sure, the old boy's club might not be as wide spread anymore, but does that fix other micro-aggressions? I've rarely faced sexist comments (and never harassment) in my undergraduate art history classes. But micro-aggressions about race? 

 

Well, that's another story entirely. It doesn't come from Professors, as often as it comes from fellow students and "guest speakers", etc. I don't honestly believe I would find a place free of such behavior, but I would like to think I could find a department or school which would have support for me when it does happen. Being a person of color, or someone who is LGBTQ also comes with its own concerns to navigate. I wish it was as easy as "Well there is less sexism in our field." That wouldn't preclude instances of harassment, assault, micro-aggressions, etc. 

 

It seems like general questions can be asked in interviews: Do you feel students and faculty are comfortable with the environment of the department? How do you feel the general attitude of the department comes off? (Driven? Competitive? Cooperative? etc) Are there resources available to meet the needs of students? What sort of association do they have? Is it school-wide? Departmental? What is the composition of the student body like?

 

But other, more in-depth questions might be better directed at students, and searched for on websites: Do you feel safe in your department? What kinds of Graduate student associations/unions are there? (E.G.: Black Graduate association, Latino, AAPI, LGBTQ graduate association, etc) Are they active? What purposes do they serve? Would people in those orgs (if you ask) state they feel safe on campus? Not just like there is an active community, but safe, unafraid, not harassed. Is there support (or at the very least, community) when you encounter discrimination or aggressions? Safe spaces/places? 

 

These were all things I was very concerned about when I initially applied to undergraduate schools. Graduate school feels like it should be no different, in that respect. 

I can only imagine how difficult it is to be a person of color in such an overwhelmingly white field. I'm disturbed (and, sadly, only a little surprised) you've been the victim of so many "micro-agressions" from students and guest speakers. May I ask what kind of harassment you've faced? Often people are insensitive without realizing it–I mean, grad level humanities depts. are some of the most PC places on the planet, and the majority of people (I hope) don't mean to be condescending/insensitive/racist. Perhaps if you shared what kind of behavior you've had to face, people would have more awareness of this problem and take steps to avoid being (perhaps) unknowingly offensive.

As for how to gage how safe a school feels, the best way is to ask other students, especially other students of color. Don't just ask students in the dept., but also other students in grad student organizations. Ask around, and trust your gut.

[m-ttl]

I can only imagine how difficult it is to be a person of color in such an overwhelmingly white field. I'm disturbed (and, sadly, only a little surprised) you've been the victim of so many "micro-agressions" from students and guest speakers. May I ask what kind of harassment you've faced? Often people are insensitive without realizing it–I mean, grad level humanities depts. are some of the most PC places on the planet, and the majority of people (I hope) don't mean to be condescending/insensitive/racist. Perhaps if you shared what kind of behavior you've had to face, people would have more awareness of this problem and take steps to avoid being (perhaps) unknowingly offensive.

As for how to gage how safe a school feels, the best way is to ask other students, especially other students of color. Don't just ask students in the dept., but also other students in grad student organizations. Ask around, and trust your gut.

 

The thing about microaggressions is they happen in a variety of ways, usually never intentionally harmful, and yet -- well, intent doesn't quite matter. And telling people why they're being offensive often doesn't amount to anything but defensiveness, so I weigh my options carefully before I tell them so. The thing about micro-aggressions is they are not always so direct as harassment. 

 

Before I got to UG, I had quite a few "friends" insinuate I was only getting into good schools because I was a minority, because Affirmative Action would give me anything I wanted. In art history, I think the clearest microaggressions are the lack of diversity. I had one guest speaker explain they refused to show a famous contemporary artist because the paintings had beads and feathers (being "too Indian") and thus didn't have a universal quality they wanted. Now I don't know about you, but I have say (for example), nothing in common with Andy Warhol and his prints of Marilyn Monroe -- "universal quality" generally means white. 

 

In this instance, my fellow classmate who is from the rez was more upset on a personal level than I was, but we commiserated afterwards. 

 

And while no art historian, I'd put forth http://medievalpoc.tumblr.com/ as a shining example of bringing attention to the  lack and the arguments flaunted in return out of defensiveness. 

 

Hm. Off the top of my head: I get a lot of comments arguing my ethnicity if it gets brought up, my "mixed" qualities, the only class which covers my race (in America) in art history....doesn't count for a Diversity in the US credit. I had to take a history class on my heritage to get the same effect. I have had museum folks try to act condescending when I explained I don't speak Spanish, when it's a heritage language -- to which I have cheerfully replied: "My grandparents were beaten in school when they spoke Spanish, so they emphasized learning English to my mother, and in turn, to me."  That usually gets people to stop being so confrontational about it. 

 

Trying to stop such comments would be pushing a rock upslope. There's no place in America where I'll avoid all of them (I'm Mexican-American, the very term illegals or aliens is an aggression, there's a wide variety of constant political streams which dehumanize and demean us), but in lieu of avoidance, you look for shared community that will validate the issues you face. 

[Borden]

MedPOC has her share of significant problems, largely that she consistently applies current American race relations to 1) time periods she hasn't studied 2) time periods that aren't now in America, and also in that she frequently makes sweeping statements and refuses to make corrections when glaring, basic errors are pointed out by people whose specialties she's butting into,  but I'm with you on the fact that in theory her tumblr at least illuminates the need for better scholarship (I'm like 90% sure it's a woman but correct me if I'm wrong).

 

You touch on an incredibly important point here, m-ttl, about the "universal" or default being white and male. It's especially dangerous to maintain this attitude unconsciously while actively proclaiming an adherence to principles of diversity, because if the people making grand statements about inclusivity and the need for open dialogues and learning are still unwilling to recognize their internalized aggressions, they're not going to actually make any adjustments to their behaviour and the cycle will continue.

[Hegel's Bagels]

Pay attention to the number of women and POC in the faculty. How many are tenured? Tenure track? Assistant vs. Associate vs. Full? Females might be well represented in the grad student body of the department, but this is not necessarily true for the faculty. I have found that there are oftentimes a higher proportion of male professors and specifically a higher proportion of male senior faculty. This might give you a good temperature check of the departmental environment. I also highly recommend asking a female professor in your current department about what they have heard. I specifically did not attend one top-ranking program because my potential advisor was well known in the art historical community as a misogynistic ass.

Also, fair warning: while grad departments are often perceived of as bastions of progressive, liberal thought - they are still highly elitist and selective. You are still going to hear a lot of sexist, homophobic, racist, classist, etc. remarks in your time as a grad student, oftentimes by some of your colleagues. It's incredibly frustrating and a real sorry reminder about how far we have to go as a society. Definitely look for allies in other departments, grad student groups, etc.

[m-ttl]

MedPOC has her share of significant problems, largely that she consistently applies current American race relations to 1) time periods she hasn't studied 2) time periods that aren't now in America, and also in that she frequently makes sweeping statements and refuses to make corrections when glaring, basic errors are pointed out by people whose specialties she's butting into,  but I'm with you on the fact that in theory her tumblr at least illuminates the need for better scholarship (I'm like 90% sure it's a woman but correct me if I'm wrong).

 

You touch on an incredibly important point here, m-ttl, about the "universal" or default being white and male. It's especially dangerous to maintain this attitude unconsciously while actively proclaiming an adherence to principles of diversity, because if the people making grand statements about inclusivity and the need for open dialogues and learning are still unwilling to recognize their internalized aggressions, they're not going to actually make any adjustments to their behaviour and the cycle will continue.

Agreed, re: their (her?) problems. I won't say which blog I run, but I've certainly had her stepping on my specialties before. It's great to bridge the gaps between academia and everyone else. It's not so great to disregard important scholarships and findings for the sake of doing so, however. (They use a lot of fantastic sources, for which I applaud them. And they're right about Greeks in history often being black, but saying the Ptolomies were black simply because the statues were done in a traditional Egyptian manner...well, most foreign /conquering rulers had themselves depicted like the people they were ruling. That's hardly a solid historic argument.)

I dislike that they act like they are Art Historians when they aren't. But that aside, they do have a point in the purpose of their blog, displaying images with people of color in them from places that are thought of as "only/entirely white".

The universality problem is one of the biggest ones I, and others run into. It's as simple as telling someone that, in the field, you simply don't exist, didn't contribute, aren't there to be seen -- and if you are, it's unusual. This is a field who is entrentched quite heavily in Western Europe, and for many people, Western Europe simply means "white". Working around that, or fleshing out the parts of our visual history that have been erased because of it, is difficult.

Ultimately, people who talk about the universality of a work, but only apply "universal" to very *specific* subjects and as a contemporary descriptor tend to cause me to eyeroll.

[Borden]

As long as you don't run the blog that keeps perpetuating the bullpucky revisionist versions of Medusa and Persephone, we're square, mon cher.

[m-ttl]

Pay attention to the number of women and POC in the faculty. How many are tenured? Tenure track? Assistant vs. Associate vs. Full? Females might be well represented in the grad student body of the department, but this is not necessarily true for the faculty. I have found that there are oftentimes a higher proportion of male professors and specifically a higher proportion of male senior faculty. This might give you a good temperature check of the departmental environment. I also highly recommend asking a female professor in your current department about what they have heard. I specifically did not attend one top-ranking program because my potential advisor was well known in the art historical community as a misogynistic ass.Also, fair warning: while grad departments are often perceived of as bastions of progressive, liberal thought - they are still highly elitist and selective. You are still going to hear a lot of sexist, homophobic, racist, classist, etc. remarks in your time as a grad student, oftentimes by some of your colleagues. It's incredibly frustrating and a real sorry reminder about how far we have to go as a society. Definitely look for allies in other departments, grad student groups, etc.

Yes!! Thank you. I think any change from my UG will be significant re: gender balances (I'm 90% sure ALL of the tenured faculty in Art History are women).

That said, I've never fooled myself into the "bastions of progressive thought" sell. Hardly. :/ unfortunately.

If you don't mind, can you PM me and tell me where you didn't end up going?

As long as you don't run the blog that keeps perpetuating the bullpucky revisionist versions of Medusa and Persephone, we're square, mon cher.

Nope! I'm sick and tired of Medusa and Persephone myths on tumblr. I honestly hate the reiterations of the same two stories.

Edited February 3, 2014 by m-ttl

[Borden]

 

Nope! I'm sick and tired of Medusa and Persephone myths on tumblr. I honestly hate the reiterations of the same two stories.

 

Amen amen amen. I keep getting in the same fights but Medusa and Persephone and their post-classical interpretations in art are one of my areas of interest and it makes me FUME as a feminist to see them used as symbols based on utter falsehoods.

[catsrgods]

My professor warned me against applying to a top art history program because the person working in my field is, in his eyes, a dick who dislikes women as students and treats them poorly. He said he didn't like the idea of me having to put up with the guys crap and I'd have an awful time. I heeded his warning.