Rankings: How Important Are They?

[ProfLorax]

RU/VH and RU/H are the new criteria that is being used as R1 and R2, etc. are no longer used--RU/VH stands for "Research university/very high" and RU/H  is "research university/high". Based on that, Maryland and Colorado do not fit with these new rankings and are thus RU/H rather than RU/VH. They are the "new version" of R1 and R2. You can find that information here: http://classifications.carnegiefoundation.org/descriptions/basic.php

 

Also, thank you for your reply. That was my gut reaction as well re: teaching undergraduates at RU/H universities. 

Oh thanks for the list! If you click "View All Results," Maryland is on the list, as is Boulder. 

 

ETA: I spent like ten minutes figuring that list out because how could not a single UC be on it? But they are, indeed, just on the third page. It's not a very clear website design!

Edited February 13, 2014 by proflorax

[ArthChauc]

Ahh, astute observation!

Edited February 13, 2014 by ArthurianChaucerian

[jazzyd]

FWIW, Dallas Cowboys have no resource-based advantage over any other team as the NFL has a hard salary cap, making it impossible to have a higher payroll than the maximum allowed. The minimum payroll is roughly 85% of the maximum, so everybody is spending the same. The NBA has a "soft" cap which lets you overspend the salary cap only to retain your team's own players, which will make it impossible to sign other players. If you are too far above the cap due to taking advantage of this rule, you start paying enormous penalties for the overage. For instance, the Brooklyn Nets are expected to pay a $100 million penalty for a $30 million overage this year, a figure which will double in the coming years if they do not fix that.

 

The Yankees can pretty much spend as they wish and their payroll this year will be about 4x as much as the lowest team. Spending on veteran free agents in MLB is such a precarious proposition that the teams who do so often get themselves into just as much trouble as they do improve their team. They also have a "luxury tax" and it does indeed scare teams, but it is set so high that only 2-3 teams are within a stone's throw of it in a given year. 

 

I know you didn't mean for this to become a sports discussion but I couldn't help but drop some fun facts

I mentioned financial resources instead of salaries for the very reason that salary caps exist; but there's many things a team like the Lakers or Cowboys can do to lure talent outside of a strict offer of more money. I mean, just look at Jerry Jones' overpriced playpen. Thinking just in terms of name, finances, resources, prestige, there's no reason why the Cowboys should be as abominable as they are. Or at least, there wouldn't be if we were following along the alma mater=sport teams analogy, prestige=more success.

 

I had no clue about the NBA penalties though. Very cool. Very needed, lol.

Edited February 13, 2014 by jazzy dubois

[hashslinger]

Let's just let the facts stand for themselves. Like ComeBackZinc suggests, look at the type of institution you'd like to join. See where their NEW faculty are graduating from. We can look at Maryland's recent TT hiring. Not all of us want to end up at an R1, but it's an example. Here are where the final candidates received their PhDs. 

• African American Studies: University of Chicago, University of Pennsylvania, and Harvard
• Rhet/Comp: University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, Miami University, the Ohio State, and Maryland (she taught somewhere else for a few years before getting asked back to interview)
• African-American Literature: Duke, Duke, and UPenn.

Thems the facts. Hate it or love it, but UMD seems to select candidates from high ranked programs. 

 

Also, I've noticed that folks have been accused of being elitist or overly cynical for constantly bringing up the job market. The reality is that the job market, adjunctification, and the changing role of Humanities are what we are talking about within our programs and our professional organizations everyday. No one here endorses the power of prestige or the horrific job market; it's just the reality of our profession. If we want to change the reality of our profession, we have to first confront it.

 

When you are visiting programs, if the department doesn't explicitly talk about how they will prepare you for the job market, ask. Ask what professionalization opportunities they offer. Ask if they hire recent PhD's as lecturers while they are on the job market. Ask if they offer funding for job interviews. Any ethical humanities PhD program should be doing these things. 

 

At the end of the day, go to a program that will make you happy, foster positive connections, motivate you to produce excellent work, and position you well for the job market. 

 

Yes, this all might technically be true  ... but I think that some people are still unaware of the realities of the job market these days.

 

There are no jobs at Marylands, regardless of what kind of school you go to.

 

I'm sure we all have institutions we'd like to end up at, and I'm sure that "R1" ranks up there in our dreams. Problem is, R1 institutions just aren't hiring. This past year, in my designated field area, there were two jobs at R1 institutions. Two. For the entire country. Those two jobs got something like 500 applications.

 

The other jobs (and it was a weak year, so there weren't many jobs in general) were at SLACs, R2 type places, and regional campuses of larger state universities. There were also VAPs and lectureships.

 

On the other side of the coin, my R1 institution did do a couple of job searches last year. We got hundreds of applications. The people we picked to bring to campus weren't just from the top schools--they were holders of major national fellowships and post-docs. They had five or six publications each. One--a graduate student--had already published a book. These are the people that are able to be interviewed at the Marylands of the world. And there still were "losers" in this situation--"losers" with ACLS fellowships and PhDs from the top schools who walked away that year without a job.

 

My point is that if you're going into this with your goal institution in mind--and that institution is one like University of Maryland--you might want to recalibrate your expectations. In fact, what I tell people thinking about grad school is to ask themselves a few crucial questions: Are you going to be disappointed if you don't get a job at an R1 or highly selective SLAC? Are you okay with teaching at a much lesser-ranked institution? Are you okay taking on a 4/4 load that includes composition classes? Are you okay with teaching students of a "wide array" of abilities? Are you okay with working exclusively with undergrads, many of whom will be unprepared for college-level work? Are you okay with relocating to a very different area of the country?

 

Our discipline is currently being remade completely. Those of us in grad school now are no longer faced with a "choice" or where or at what kind of institution we will teach. We're talking about the fact that the university is undergoing a huge transformation--from public trust to private corporate scheme--and as a result, the funds to hire professors just aren't there anymore. Tenure is quickly disappearing.

 

I say all this not to discourage people from dreaming big or to be one of these "you're never going to get a job!" pessimists. (On the contrary, I actually think that it's very possible to get a job in today's climate--you just have to know where to look.) But I just say this let people know that it takes a whole heck of a lot more than a degree from the top 20 to get a job at a Maryland--and that you should be more open to other types of institutions.

 

Another note--I see it said here again and again that the key is to produce "good work." This is a truism more than it is true. Of course you should produce good work. But what "good work" means is really difficult to define. I'm sure that everyone in the country thinks they produce good work. Problem is that "good work" changes with the wind these days. What's trendy today might be totally dated tomorrow. The dissertation on trans-Atlantic vampires may be hot on this year's job market but seem totally passe next year.

 

Therefore, I would say that you should make it your goal to produce "finished work." You'd be surprised by how many people go to grad school and don't finish their dissertations. Half the people I started with have fallen by the wayside. A lot of people sail through course work, pass exams, and then get gummed up in prospectus. A lot of people dither away for years on their dissertations, run out of funding, and then end up in some terrible adjuncting limbo.

 

You should go to a program that allows you to finish and that offers you the funding and resources to do your best. You should to to a program that provides encouraging and supportive advisers. You should go to a program that limits your time teaching in the classroom, but that still offers you enough teaching experience to be competitive for the teaching jobs that now comprise the majority of the MLA job list. You should go to a program that just allows you to get it done. If the majority of people in the program are spending 8 or 10 years working on their PhD, then don't go there.

Edited February 13, 2014 by hashslinger

[Strong Flat White]

In fact, what I tell people thinking about grad school is to ask themselves a few crucial questions: Are you going to be disappointed if you don't get a job at an R1 or highly selective SLAC? Are you okay with teaching at a much lesser-ranked institution? Are you okay taking on a 4/4 load that includes composition classes? Are you okay with teaching students of a "wide array" of abilities? Are you okay with working exclusively with undergrads, many of whom will be unprepared for college-level work? Are you okay with relocating to a very different area of the country?

 

 

Too funny. Hey, Hashslinger. I took your advice and asked myself those questions that you suggested that I ask myself. Would you like to know how my self responded to my question-asking self?

[Strong Flat White]

I admire those who don't take bait. Sorry for the bait. That's probably bad form. Still, I have something to say, so here is how it went down when I approached myself with these questions at your suggestion. First I should say that I should have given myself a bit of time between each question – rattling them off the way I did was off-putting to myself and my self squinted back at me, sighed, and said, “this is about the rankings, isn’t it?” – It is, self, said I to myself. “Christ,” he said. “We’ve been over this a million times. Someone put you up to this.” –No, self. I am here of my own accord, and therefore yours, too. “ComeBackZinc?” myself asked me. –No. “Smellybug?” –No, self. Look, calm down. I was just wondering…“Hashslinger then. Must be Hashslinger.” I said nothing, not even to the self that wasn’t me but is. Then: - It was suggested that I ask. Again. How can I not ask again? Let’s do it. Plus there was the thing about how it is more of a truism than it is true that…”Hey, asshole. Are you going to make a truth statement? That would be so cute, but we’re not doing that on my watch, Mr. No sirree Bobski. You can take your truth statements straight to Foucault, young man. You can stuff your truth in a sack.” By now my cheeks are burning and I feel ridiculous. I am, of course, absolutely right. Or, rather, myself is right, and my self is rubbing it in, relishing the moment of my misery. Still…questions to be asked, questions that must be asked. And answered. Honestly. Truthfully. My self, opposite me, pacing impatiently, looks upon myself with some pity. “You really are a fucking retard, you know that, right? A real fucknut.” – Yes, self, thank you, I know. No point in arguing with just me. It’s just us. I don’t want anything to turn ugly, but sometimes my self can’t help me, and I continue, “I think you’re more of a retardedism than a retard, really. But nevermind. Let’s get to it. The answers are:

 

No

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes, and for that matter, perhaps even a different part of the world, somewhere beyond these national borders.

(in that order). Happy now?”

 

Thank you, self, I said to me, looking down. “But you already knew all of this,” said self to me, “why ask again? Where is this coming from? Aren’t deadlines already well past for all of those applicants who are trying for Fall ’14? Didn’t you read that to me just earlier, a very good point that I believe Katia_Chan brought up from that other thread?” By this point I am ashamed and embarrassed, and myself can see right through me. Why did I do this? I should not have asked myself these questions, not when I’ve done so already, so many times in so many ways, with answers from myself always coming to me exactly the same. Astounding consistency, never any variation. No, yesyesyesyesyes. But then, sensing my own thought process, my self raises an eyebrow and gives me a look. Curiosity. Amusement. “Wait a sec, you don’t think that maybe…” – I do, self, yes. A snorty sort of giggle. - Or at least that’s all I can think of. I’ve had my suspicions, but... “Yes…yeesssss. Very interesting. Very well, good talk, self. You take care of me, now, ya hear.” – Will do, I say to me. And with that, I am happy as hell not to have to deal with my self any longer.  Dude’s a dick.

[hashslinger]

Lol, talk about seeing someone crack ...

 

I apologize if my post seemed condescending. I really wasn't trying to come across that way at all, but after I made my post, I realized that it might have come across as overbearing and know-it-allish.

 

However, I was just trying to advocate for/give hope to people who don't necessarily attend the "top" schools, and to dispel notion that a career is only available to those who attend a certain bunch of schools. Believe me, these aren't discussion that ever go away, as stale as they might seem to people here.

[Strong Flat White]

Lol, talk about seeing someone crack ...

 

I apologize if my post seemed condescending. I really wasn't trying to come across that way at all, but after I made my post, I realized that it might have come across as overbearing and know-it-allish.

 

However, I was just trying to advocate for/give hope to people who don't necessarily attend the "top" schools, and to dispel notion that a career is only available to those who attend a certain bunch of schools. Believe me, these aren't discussion that ever go away, as stale as they might seem to people here.

 

And we had fun there.  Didn't we have some fun?

 

I tried to make my point with colorful humor. I'm not actually cracking up and I actually bear no ill-will of any sort toward anyone here, but hashslinger, I have to admit, I am quite happy to see your acknowledgement and your apology. Advocacy is something I guess I'll never quite relate to, but having said my piece I think we can probably coexist. And you're absolutely right...this discussion is here to stay pretty much forever, so for my part, I'll just concede my need to deal with it.

[hashslinger]

You should be cracking. I did during February of my admissions cycle. Spectacularly.

 

Anyway, I am going to bow out of this discussion, as the advice I'm giving is indeed pretty self-evident to 90% of applicants or so.

Edited February 13, 2014 by hashslinger

[Strong Flat White]

You should be cracking. I did during February of my admissions cycle. Spectacularly.

 

Anyway, I am going to bow out of this discussion, as the advice I'm giving is indeed pretty self-evident to 90% of applicants or so.

 

If I'm cracking, it's not b/c of my admissions cycle.  I'm not in a cycle.  That will happen for me in 2 years. In the meantime I like to keep myself on top of things. I'm researching my app cycle from a long way out. 

 

As to the supposed 10% that you feel you haven't reached, I wish there was something I could say to help you and the do-gooders feel better.  Doesn't seem like there's anything that will get you to stop worrying. Stop worrying so much. Things are gonna be alright.

[wreckofthehope]

X

 

If I could upvote this by a million, I would.

[smellybug]

I guess I don't understand the analogy. Huge sports franchises with boatloads of financial resources and the most to lure good coaches and talented free agents with - Yankees, Lakers, Dallas Cowboys - don't make it to their respective playoffs every year. Or win championships every year. By that logic, these teams would almost always be at or near the top every year by virtue of their clout alone, even if less wealthy teams with fewer resources had better players. That's not that case at all. 

 

Unless you're making the comparison to college athletics, in which case I think it holds more water what with the NCAA division between D1, D2, D3 schools, the BCS system for college football, the bid system for basketball, etc. etc. where a school that's undefeated in an obscure conference will in most cases go ignored in comparison to a Big 10 or SEC school with a poorer record.

 

In either case, I'm sure I thought way more into this than it warranted 

I have idea what any of this means. I guess I should probably stay away from sports metaphors.

[Fiz]

I admire those who don't take bait. Sorry for the bait. That's probably bad form. Still, I have something to say, so here is how it went down when I approached myself with these questions at your suggestion. First I should say that I should have given myself a bit of time between each question – rattling them off the way I did was off-putting to myself and my self squinted back at me, sighed, and said, “this is about the rankings, isn’t it?” – It is, self, said I to myself. “Christ,” he said. “We’ve been over this a million times. Someone put you up to this.” –No, self. I am here of my own accord, and therefore yours, too. “ComeBackZinc?” myself asked me. –No. “Smellybug?” –No, self. Look, calm down. I was just wondering…“Hashslinger then. Must be Hashslinger.” I said nothing, not even to the self that wasn’t me but is. Then: - It was suggested that I ask. Again. How can I not ask again? Let’s do it. Plus there was the thing about how it is more of a truism than it is true that…”Hey, asshole. Are you going to make a truth statement? That would be so cute, but we’re not doing that on my watch, Mr. No sirree Bobski. You can take your truth statements straight to Foucault, young man. You can stuff your truth in a sack.” By now my cheeks are burning and I feel ridiculous. I am, of course, absolutely right. Or, rather, myself is right, and my self is rubbing it in, relishing the moment of my misery. Still…questions to be asked, questions that must be asked. And answered. Honestly. Truthfully. My self, opposite me, pacing impatiently, looks upon myself with some pity. “You really are a fucking retard, you know that, right? A real fucknut.” – Yes, self, thank you, I know. No point in arguing with just me. It’s just us. I don’t want anything to turn ugly, but sometimes my self can’t help me, and I continue, “I think you’re more of a retardedism than a retard, really. But nevermind. Let’s get to it. The answers are:

 

No

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes, and for that matter, perhaps even a different part of the world, somewhere beyond these national borders.

(in that order). Happy now?”

 

Thank you, self, I said to me, looking down. “But you already knew all of this,” said self to me, “why ask again? Where is this coming from? Aren’t deadlines already well past for all of those applicants who are trying for Fall ’14? Didn’t you read that to me just earlier, a very good point that I believe Katia_Chan brought up from that other thread?” By this point I am ashamed and embarrassed, and myself can see right through me. Why did I do this? I should not have asked myself these questions, not when I’ve done so already, so many times in so many ways, with answers from myself always coming to me exactly the same. Astounding consistency, never any variation. No, yesyesyesyesyes. But then, sensing my own thought process, my self raises an eyebrow and gives me a look. Curiosity. Amusement. “Wait a sec, you don’t think that maybe…” – I do, self, yes. A snorty sort of giggle. - Or at least that’s all I can think of. I’ve had my suspicions, but... “Yes…yeesssss. Very interesting. Very well, good talk, self. You take care of me, now, ya hear.” – Will do, I say to me. And with that, I am happy as hell not to have to deal with my self any longer.  Dude’s a dick.

 

lol this was funny as shit

[Fiz]

I have idea what any of this means. I guess I should probably stay away from sports metaphors.

 

I have MORE than an idea of what it means, and as a former ESPN intern, am resisting the urge to destroy it so much.

[despejado]

I have MORE than an idea of what it means, and as a former ESPN intern, am resisting the urge to destroy it so much.

Can you get me that gig? I would rock hell outta being an ESPN intern. Double please.

[ComeBackZinc]

You know, Strong Flat White, the fact that you may know all of this stuff doesn't mean that everyone knows all this stuff. Look: there are dozens and dozens of essays and blog posts out there from people who feel betrayed by the academy because they feel that they were never adequately warned about the status of the job market. Dozens. And they're incredibly angry and full of deep hurt. So I try to point this stuff out here, where people are still making decisions about their future, because I think it may help them avoid similar pain. I'm sorry if that's repetitious to you, but given all of the people writing these types of pieces, it clearly needs to be heard from some people. And no amount of throwing around Foucault is going to change the on-the-ground reality of the academic job market. If you find these posts so objectionable, just ignore them.

[Fiz]

Can you get me that gig? I would rock hell outta being an ESPN intern. Double please.

I can put you in touch with two ppl who may be able to help you. They are always looking for new talent and i am sure they would be impressed by someone applying for grad school. (I was only a junior when I was going thru this.)

BUT.

Before I do, three questions answer you must. Incorrectly answer, and fail, you will.

One. Can you write, and i dont mean that pretentious, bombastic, elevated, erudite bs that so many English academics love to throw around. The point of writing is to communicate ideas and if only highly educated ppl can comprehend ur writing, then as a writer, u have failed. You must be able to write for the public sphere.

Two. Do you know fantasy football?

Three. You on loke status, cuz?

[despejado]

I can put you in touch with two ppl who may be able to help you. They are always looking for new talent and i am sure they would be impressed by someone applying for grad school. (I was only a junior when I was going thru this.)

BUT.

Before I do, three questions answer you must. Incorrectly answer, and fail, you will.

One. Can you write, and i dont mean that pretentious, bombastic, elevated, erudite bs that so many English academics love to throw around. The point of writing is to communicate ideas and if only highly educated ppl can comprehend ur writing, then as a writer, u have failed. You must be able to write for the public sphere.

Two. Do you know fantasy football?

Three. You on loke status, cuz?

Dude, sign me up. SportsCenter and my morning coffee are my two mainstays, and fuck yeah I can write. You're making me excited.

[Fiz]

Dude, sign me up. SportsCenter and my morning coffee are my two mainstays, and fuck yeah I can write. You're making me excited.

In a matter of moments you will receive a personalized message containing the emails of two individuals. The first individual is located in Bristol, which, I should add, is where your MUST relocate too. The second is in California, but he is a someone who may greatly help you. It took him years to get into espn, but he was extremely persistent and it paid off, so his words are words u shud listen too.

Be prepared to be grilled on sports knowledge. One thing u must learn, u shud not see players or teams anymore, only numbers. For instance, kobe bryant no longer becomes kobe bryant. Kobe bryant to me is 4th on the all time scoring list, the first player since mj in 87 to average more than 35 a game, a player who once hit 12 threes in a game--8 in a row, scored four straight back to back to back to back 50 point games, who had 9 straight games of scoring 40 or more, blah blah blah. You gotta know this, for everyone essentially. When i say jeter, what does that mean to u? When i say adrien peterson, what numbers fly before you. Be prepared to pull up numbers on the spot: it is a requirement. And u better know past athletes as well. What year did mike tyson first unify the title and how old was he when he did it? Tell me about Jackie Robinson's rookie year, so on and so on.

Btw, bristol is a racist fucking town as hell so be prepared if you are a racial minority. Being from socal, i never saw colors, cuz quite frankly, colors dont exist here. Ive never once been the "only person in the room who looks like this"

Bristol taught me to see colors, and you will notice it if you are not used to it

[despejado]

In a matter of moments you will receive a personalized message containing the emails of two individuals. The first individual is located in Bristol, which, I should add, is where your MUST relocate too. The second is in California, but he is a someone who may greatly help you. It took him years to get into espn, but he was extremely persistent and it paid off, so his words are words u shud listen too.

Be prepared to be grilled on sports knowledge. One thing u must learn, u shud not see players or teams anymore, only numbers. For instance, kobe bryant no longer becomes kobe bryant. Kobe bryant to me is 4th on the all time scoring list, the first player since mj in 87 to average more than 35 a game, a player who once hit 12 threes in a game--8 in a row, scored four straight back to back to back to back 50 point games, who had 9 straight games of scoring 40 or more, blah blah blah. You gotta know this, for everyone essentially. When i say jeter, what does that mean to u? When i say adrien peterson, what numbers fly before you. Be prepared to pull up numbers on the spot: it is a requirement. And u better know past athletes as well. What year did mike tyson first unify the title and how old was he when he did it? Tell me about Jackie Robinson's rookie year, so on and so on.

Btw, bristol is a racist fucking town as hell so be prepared if you are a racial minority. Being from socal, i never saw colors, cuz quite frankly, colors dont exist here. Ive never once been the "only person in the room who looks like this"

Bristol taught me to see colors, and you will notice it if you are not used to it

Thanks for all the info! Totally appreciate it

[Fiz]

So let it be written; so let it be done.

[Strong Flat White]

You know, Strong Flat White, the fact that you may know all of this stuff doesn't mean that everyone knows all this stuff. Look: there are dozens and dozens of essays and blog posts out there from people who feel betrayed by the academy because they feel that they were never adequately warned about the status of the job market. Dozens. And they're incredibly angry and full of deep hurt. So I try to point this stuff out here, where people are still making decisions about their future, because I think it may help them avoid similar pain. I'm sorry if that's repetitious to you, but given all of the people writing these types of pieces, it clearly needs to be heard from some people. And no amount of throwing around Foucault is going to change the on-the-ground reality of the academic job market. If you find these posts so objectionable, just ignore them.

 

I hear you.  Actually, I was curious about the level/nature/intensity of the conversation, took a step back, and found exactly what you described...lots and lots of not knowing what I genuinely thought people knew. I really did. Honest mistake. Sorry, folks!  I still maintain that if you don't know, that it's super problematic and largely on your shoulders, but realizing how widespread it is, I'll chill out. Here's me chillaxing.  Carry on.

[ExponentialDecay]

Noobish question: Where does one find these mythical rankings? Are people going off USNR? What if I'm applying to Comparative Literature? Why is Maryland-College Park ranked 1st for Comparative Literature when it only gives 4 years of funding contingent on maintaining a 3.5 GPA???

 

That said, the general state of innumeracy in this topic is astonishing. 

 

Every time somebody goes like WELL MY FRIEND AT HAWAII-MANOA GOT A TT OFFER AT WHITMAN 2 YEARS AFTER COMPLETION, I am reminded of that great romantic comedy, He's Just Not That Into You: we are not the exception; we are the rule. There is a perception that, as a rule, people at lower-ranked programmes will have a difficult time on the job market. The onus of the debate, however, is whether this perception is statistically significant. I myself am very interested to find out whether the hypothesis that people at Top 50 programmes get more and better jobs holds at 5% SL. I don't want to hear about the lucky bastards who happened to choose a field that will boom in 5 years, but in 2014 is only taught at Utah. I don't want to hear about the kid that has his life planned out on a spreadsheet into 2050. I don't care about your friend doing Jewish Studies at Loyola who has an uncle at YU.

 

There was a very worthwhile comment to the Poli Sci article that said that these data are not available, in fact they seem to be pointedly avoided, in the humanities. It's not just the USA that's pushing all and sundry into higher education - this is a global phenomenon. Nobody will be shutting down third-rate programmes. There is a way to profit from this situation, but we can't do that, collectively, as a society, until we know what the situation actually is.

[ComeBackZinc]

Hey, exponentialdecay. I am not aware of any serious studies that specifically address the issue of the academic job market in English. As you're aware, absent a particular sample size and σ, there's not much use in worrying about the alpha; however, given a reasonable n, my intuition is that there would almost certainly be a significant difference between the hiring rates of the schools in the top 5 and schools in the top 50. That certainly depends a great deal on the particular programs and specialties, however, and of course it's just informed speculation at this point.

 

For a little context, here's a report about such a study in political science. The results are both to be expected and depressing. 

 

As for your first paragraph, in my experience, people are using the word "rankings" as a rough approximation for the socially-constructed perception of program exclusivity/prestige. So there's a lot of wiggle here, along a couple of axes. And yet I'm still confident saying that graduates from Berkeley, Harvard, Brown, or Ann Arbor will have a much easier time getting a job than a graduate from Middle American State, even while I fully acknowledge that people from the former schools go jobless all the time and that exceptional candidates from the latter can and do get TT jobs.

Edited February 15, 2014 by ComeBackZinc

[Swagato]

Lack of numerical specifics are exactly the problem, but also one that I don't believe can be adequately resolved because of how qualitative much of academe is. So, no, there are no exact and absolute rankings. What most of us are referring to is a mix of available rankings (USNWR, NRC) which have their own issues, and reputational rankings--much more ambivalent, and comprised largely of what we hear from the scholarly community. 

 

Anecdotal evidence obviously counts for little. However, it is at least beyond reasonable doubt that people from lower-ranked (read: perceived as having less power/influence on the job market) departments will probably have a slightly harder time pursuing TT positions. 

 

Applying statistics to these matters (IMO) is a mistaken approach simply because of the individual variations that are part of the process. *However*, we can certainly establish a general tendency, namely that department reputations matter. It's ironic that you mention Political Science, since Princeton (data available on their site) has an amazing grip on that job market. Likewise, UChicago has a terrific record for Cinema Studies (again, data available on their site). But these are the exceptions, places where a single department is so good that it is able to have an overpowering influence on the market. Of course, comparable departments also continue to place well--in Cinema Studies, for example, USC/NYU/Berkeley/Yale/Brown/etc. definitely have very good placement. 

 

As much as you may dislike the peculiar nature of the academic system, there won't be any sweeping changes underway. For us at this point, it's just relevant that we know what we're getting into. As far as reputation goes, yes, it clearly matters.