grad dating undergrad

[PhDerp]

Still waiting to actually hear any news from OP. The responses in this thread are rife with assumptions! (It seems to be hard to come to any conclusion without making a few.) Definitely want to hear from OP again, though.

[LittleDarlings]

Why are you talking in Twilight?

I said "team" before Twilight came out.

It has always been my thing lol

Anyways does it matter? I also do #hashtags a lot. I love pop culture lol

[Guest Gnome Chomsky]

I said "team" before Twilight came out.

It has always been my thing lol

Anyways does it matter? I also do #hashtags a lot. I love pop culture lol

Didn't you make a post about how you want to start "talking super smart about super intelligent like topics?" Yet you're bragging about saying "team" and #. Go figure. 

[LittleDarlings]

Still waiting to actually hear any news from OP. The responses in this thread are rife with assumptions! (It seems to be hard to come to any conclusion without making a few.) Definitely want to hear from OP again, though.

Agree! This is a soap opera

[LittleDarlings]

Didn't you make a post about how you want to start "talking super smart about super intelligent like topics?" Yet you're bragging about saying "team" and #. Go figure.

In a work environment I want to feel more mature in my personal life I assume I can still say team and # and I sometimes call myself "she" like I speak in third person. You have to be funny and let your personality out and that's what I do and people seemingly like it. I have friends at work so hey.

I won't talk like that in grad school around the super intelligent people. Lol

Edited March 14, 2014 by LittleDarlings

[Guest Gnome Chomsky]

In a work environment I want to feel more mature in my personal life I assume I can still say team and # and I sometimes call myself "she" like I speak in third person. You have to be funny and let your personality out and that's what I do and people seemingly like it. I have friends at work so hey

So hey. Like lol why sound like super smart when you have friends at work like this guy I totally know who is on team hot #dome is like into me bc I talk like super smart on like intelligent topics and stuff. 

[LucyS]

Just for clarity, the train wreck does not describe the moral implications of the situation, but the fact that the TA has put a career, be it reputation or funding, at risk.

 

The information that I am aware of involves facts, such as explicit conversations and a visit to the apartment. It involves a history of a relationship beginning in a previous course and includes a compromising recommendation. The student signed up for the course on the TAs specific recommendation and signed up for the TAs section when there were multiple options. The professor does not know.

 

The university's policy states that there should be notification and that the teacher should remove him/herself from a position of authority. Very vague.

 

The reason for the post was not to involve conjecture or drama, but to find out specific experiences with this kind of situation-- academic dishonesty.

[LittleDarlings]

So hey. Like lol why sound like super smart when you have friends at work like this guy I totally know who is on team hot #dome is like into me bc I talk like super smart on like intelligent topics and stuff. 

Team hot #dome?? Ummm yeah that makes no sense.

So like omg yeah like totally like super like team smart like totes!

OP you should say something honestly, if something comes of it awesome if not awesome but still someone should know.

[Guest Gnome Chomsky]

Team hot #dome?? Ummm yeah that makes no sense.

So like omg yeah like totally like super like team smart like totes!

OP you should say something honestly, if something comes of it awesome if not awesome but still someone should know.

I meant team hot #do_me. You have to separate the words. That's how Twitter works. 

[LittleDarlings]

I meant team hot #do_me. You have to separate the words. That's how Twitter works.

Lol umm never seen anyone on twitter do that. #umm #no

[Guest Gnome Chomsky]

Lol umm never seen anyone on twitter do that. #umm #no

Oh my bad. #do#me. 

[St Andrews Lynx]

Just for clarity, the train wreck does not describe the moral implications of the situation, but the fact that the TA has put a career, be it reputation or funding, at risk.

 

The information that I am aware of involves facts, such as explicit conversations and a visit to the apartment. It involves a history of a relationship beginning in a previous course and includes a compromising recommendation. The student signed up for the course on the TAs specific recommendation and signed up for the TAs section when there were multiple options. The professor does not know.

 

The university's policy states that there should be notification and that the teacher should remove him/herself from a position of authority. Very vague.

The set-up you describe does sound moderately dodgy - in that there is an undisclosed conflict of interest. 

 

For the most part I agree that 2 people's relationship is their own private business...until it becomes everybody else's business. I disagree with other posters who think that it is possible to separate personal from professional in this case. Something like grading is very subjective and easily influenced by the instructor's (conscious & unconscious) biases towards the students. It would be incredibly surprised if there wasn't unfair grading going on. 

 

To answer some of the OPs other original questions. Dating between grad students and undergrads isn't that common - in most American universities there doesn't seem to be much social interaction between grads & undergrads, and there is often a big difference in maturity/life goals between the two groups. The most common reason behind such a pairing is that they started dating when they were both undergrads, then the older one graduated. 

[Eigen]

Hey Lucy:

 

Yes, with the clarifications it does seem very dodgy. 

 

In my field grad/undergrad and professor/grad relationships aren't that uncommon, and I've seen a number that are legitimate and on the up-and-up.... But you definitely run into the ones that are in serious gray areas. 

 

I completely agree that the person is putting themselves in a bad spot with this, and could potentially lose quite a bit. 

 

I'm not sure if it was myself what I'd do at this point- I probably wouldn't say anything unless I had a strong feeling there was something under-the-table going on, and even then you want to be careful to do it in a way that won't cause blowback onto you. 

 

I'd be glad to discuss more specifically in PMs, it's always a hard situation to be in. 

[TakeruK]

TakeruK, depending on the wording of the policy, there is no "guilt" to prove. If, as the OP said, there is a policy requiring disclosure then there isn't much to prove there... Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "guilt". Yes, people can act professionally. But consider all the conversations you have with your SO about work, which in the case of TAs also often means complaining about students and/or their work. If your SO is also a student in that class, that is a huge conflict of interest, even if there are no grading improprieties. If there are exams, the student in the relationship may have access that no one else has. Whether or not they use it may not even be the question. The fact that they have access to materials that are unavailable to the rest of the class and that would get them labeled as cheaters if they had and used them is unethical, at best. This is why universities have disclosure policies. Not because they believe the TA/professor will automatically give their partner an A but because they have to protect everyone in the situation, including the class as a whole. I feel like that point is getting lost in all of this. There are very, very real FERPA concerns when you're living with someone that could have access to your grades, course materials, etc. and thus information they aren't supposed to have.

 

Since we're so into examples, I'll give another one from my PhD University. There's some sort of policy there (this was years ago so I can't remember all the details) that basically involves not doing any grading where a student might have access. This came up because I had roommates who were undergrads and one was enrolled in a class in my department. Had I been the TA for that class, university policy would've required that I not bring any of my grading home, that I not give ze extra "office hours" that were inaccessible to the class writ large, etc. Luckily, ze didn't take the class I was TAing so I could bring papers home (I still kept them away from prying eyes mind you). I imagine that the policy exists largely due to FERPA concerns and the potential for the appearance of impropriety, though I'm not higher education expert.

 

Right, when I wrote the first post, I did intend to mean that the couple in question is definitely guilty of not reporting if the policy was to report. When I wrote guilt in this post, I meant guilty of actual academic misconduct or as you mentioned, FERPA/privacy (instead of just breaking a University policy). 

 

I agree that FERPA/privacy concerns are important. I also agree that this situation (having your SO as your student/TA) should definitely be avoided where possible. But there should not be actual regulations against it (although there should be disclosure policies certainly). 

 

I also agree that it is tricky when you are living with a student you are TAing. The university policy in your example is very reasonable and I think it is possible for two people to be in a personal relationship to follow that. I do agree that it may not be very believable but in my opinion, I think if the school wanted to accuse a couple to be having extra office hours/help at home, they would have to somehow demonstrate this is happening, which would also be very difficult. However, I do not think it is fair to automatically assume personal relationships break rules all the time. 

 

Again, like I said, "or informing administration ahead of time” if it was necessary for the student to be in that section. 

 

Sometimes TA assignments are not made until a few days before the course begins (or a change happens).

 

Just for clarity, the train wreck does not describe the moral implications of the situation, but the fact that the TA has put a career, be it reputation or funding, at risk.

 

The information that I am aware of involves facts, such as explicit conversations and a visit to the apartment. It involves a history of a relationship beginning in a previous course and includes a compromising recommendation. The student signed up for the course on the TAs specific recommendation and signed up for the TAs section when there were multiple options. The professor does not know.

 

The university's policy states that there should be notification and that the teacher should remove him/herself from a position of authority. Very vague.

 

The reason for the post was not to involve conjecture or drama, but to find out specific experiences with this kind of situation-- academic dishonesty.

 

Thanks for the clarification of facts. 

 

I am not sure what you mean by a compromising recommendation (unless that is what you were describing the sentence immediately following). Your facts only show that the personal relationship exists, not that any academic misconduct occurred. 

 

I also definitely agree that the TA has not properly followed University policy from your description. It's not clear what a policy means when it says "remove from a position of authority" -- it could mean anything from not grading that specific student's assignment, to not being a TA in that section, to not being a TA in that course at all. I agree with everyone that the TA should have notified the professor as soon as they discovered that they will be in the same section. 

 

I don't think there is anything directly wrong with a TA suggesting that the student enroll in the TA's section if they immediately notified the professor that a student they were involved with has enrolled in their section and then let the professor decide what to do. (Obviously, the simpler solution would to have the student enroll in a different section but they should not be forced to do this until the department forces it). 

 

As to what could happen--it depends on the school. At my last school, breaking a policy like this is an employment related infraction. It will not appear on the TA's transcript or student record at all, only their employment record, which is destroyed after they graduate. The consequence though, might mean no more future TA work for the grad student as well as dismissal from their current TA position. This means a potential loss of funding, but they won't be kicked out of their academic program solely because they violated the disclosure policy. If the TA did do actual academic misconduct (aided cheating of some kind, for example) then the TA would have an academic infraction on record and might face consequences beyond employment related ones. 

 

At my current school though, there is no separation between your role as a graduate student and your role as a TA, so I suspect that breaking a policy like this might have more serious consequences too.