PHD program grades relevance?

[Narziss]

We all stressed about our BA and MA grades for getting into PHD programs, but what about PHD grades, are they relevant?

 

Seems like they only matter for a few things: (1) maintaining the minimum GPA for staying within the PHD program (not getting kicked out), (2) qualifying for certain fellowships, and (3) they will also become relevant if you decide to transfer from one PHD program to another PHD program.

 

But besides those reasons, do PHD seminar grades matter? (like, do they matter at all for getting a job?)

 

EDIT: the relevance I'm asking for is in the context of getting a job in philosophy.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Narziss

[Munashi]

Some academic jobs in my area will want to see your transcripts, but I'm not clear on how much weight they put on the grades themselves.  I'm not sure about non-academic jobs, though.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Munashi

[CarlsonRJ87]

I would think the more important thing is that you're doing enough quality work that your professors think highly enough to write good letters for you.  I can't imagine that happening and not having good grades, generally speaking.

Edited March 20, 2014 by CarlsonRJ87

[Narziss]

I would think the more important thing is that you're doing enough quality work that your professors think highly enough to write good letters for you.  I can't imagine that happening and not having good grades, generally speaking.

 

To the contrary, I could easily imagine a scenario in which you sleep through phd seminars mostly with B's, especially since programs have certain breadth requirements outside your area of interest, all the while better spending your time working on your areas of specialization.  I would think that publications, strong letters, and a strong dissertation would go further.  

 

So that perhaps means you should do well on seminars you take with professors you plan on working with for your dissertation, but I could perhaps just try to get by with lesser effort in courses like graduate level logic, etc., if it is completely outside of my area of work.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Narziss

[sacklunch]

I imagine doing poorly in courses with your professors of interest and/or adviser is not a great idea. Not saying they will kick you out, but it will likely show you are not serious about what you want to study. At the doctoral level you are there to study with these people. The coursework/readings should reflect your strong interests, generally. I'm not saying you have to get straight A's, with no A-'s and what not. But getting a bunch of B's is likely going to create a strange/awkward relationship with you and your mentors. This is in the humanities, of course. The papers you produce in your courses should be, in theory, training you to become a scholar. If they are not, then I suspect you have other concerns when you get on the job market?

[CarlsonRJ87]

As one professor in my MA program I told me, an A in grad school indicates you're doing the right kind of work, an A- that you're close but not quite where you want to be.  A B+/B is sort of a warning sign that you need to do better if you want a shot at good programs.  It is plausible that someone could sleep through breadth courses and do extraordinary work in AOS/AOC areas, but you would want those lackluster courses/profs you took them from as far away from you as possible.  It would seem difficult to have many of those lackluster courses and not have it creep in to the forefront of one's portfolio.

[Gnothi_Seauton]

A professor at Duke told us that your grades in your doctoral program, in and of themselves, don't matter at all.  He doesn't even look at them when reviewing applications for jobs.  However, they matter to the extent that they affect what your advisor/committee members think of you.  But even then, as long as you produce a great dissertation, no one remembers whether you got a B+ or an A- in course X during your first year.  That, at any rate, is what I was told at Duke.  

[maxhgns]

They matter for grant applications during your PhD, but not for much else. Unless you get several low grades, in which case your program may decide you're better off getting out.

[Platonist]

What is the minimum GPA or grades on courses in order not to be kicked out the PhD program? 

[Cottagecheeseman]

What is the minimum GPA or grades on courses in order not to be kicked out the PhD program? 

Typically it's like a 3.0 or a 3.5. My understanding is anything below a B+ in graduate school is pretty much an example of failing. 

[Platonist]

Typically it's like a 3.0 or a 3.5. My understanding is anything below a B+ in graduate school is pretty much an example of failing. 

Thanks for the input! 

[Narziss]

My phd program requires a 3.0 minimum and two B-'s will get you kicked out.  Atm, I have a 4.0, but some days I feel like I could care less about certain seminars and better spend my time working on my own interests, which would give me a leg up when I finally get to the dissertation phase.  I understand the need to broaden your understanding of philosophy, but sometimes it simply feels like certain courses are seriously not relevant (or at the very least not important enough to try your hardest making sure you get the A).  In any case, it is good to hear that others agree about grades in general not being relevant for finding a job in philosophy, but what we can recognize as nevertheless helpful is doing really well in at least the courses taught by the specific professors with whom you want to develop a working relationship.

[Platonist]

My phd program requires a 3.0 minimum and two B-'s will get you kicked out.  Atm, I have a 4.0, but some days I feel like I could care less about certain seminars and better spend my time working on my own interests, which would give me a leg up when I finally get to the dissertation phase.  I understand the need to broaden your understanding of philosophy, but sometimes it simply feels like certain courses are seriously not relevant (or at the very least not important enough to try your hardest making sure you get the A).  In any case, it is good to hear that others agree about grades in general not being relevant for finding a job in philosophy, but what we can recognize as nevertheless helpful is doing really well in at least the courses taught by the specific professors with whom you want to develop a working relationship.

 

Thanks. I agree completely with what you say about courses selection. I would choose those that will contribute to the dissertation research. 

[L13]

To the contrary, I could easily imagine a scenario in which you sleep through phd seminars mostly with B's, especially since programs have certain breadth requirements outside your area of interest, all the while better spending your time working on your areas of specialization.  I would think that publications, strong letters, and a strong dissertation would go further.  

 

So that perhaps means you should do well on seminars you take with professors you plan on working with for your dissertation, but I could perhaps just try to get by with lesser effort in courses like graduate level logic, etc., if it is completely outside of my area of work.

 

I question the attitude of contempt for 'boring' classes outside one's area of specialisation that engenders such behaviour, to be honest. Sure, work hard on your own research and areas of interest--but work hard on everything else as well!

 

Breadth requirements exist for a reason, namely to make you into a good philosopher, as opposed to a good metaphysicist/ethicist/epistemologist/whatever. Being a well-rounded philosopher should matter for two reasons: one, for its own sake, and two, because the majority of academic jobs you're likely to compete for once you graduate will involve teaching classes outside of your direct area of specialisation. You don't want to fail your future employers and students, or to limit your career prospects through negligence.

 

But really, I'm a perfectionist and I like learning things, so I can't imagine taking a class and not trying to master the material to the best of your ability. I recognise this may come across as an impractical attitude, but I believe it is the correct one.

 

Edit: This is a rant on the subject of narrow specialisation more than a direct response to you, Narziss, since your second post added nuance to your view that I acknowledge and respect.

Edited March 27, 2014 by L13