Should I apply to Harvard or the University of Phoenix Online?

[Zartan]

I realize this is an intrinsically vague and impossible to answer question, however, am hoping to get some direction in terms of what "category" of graduate school I should apply to for a terminal M.A. program in political science. Assuming "Tier 1" was an Ivy League school (Penn, Harvard, etc.), "Tier 2" was a non-Ivy AAU school (Michigan, Indiana, etc.), "Tier 3" was San Jose State University, and "Tier 4" was the University of Phoenix Online, toward what tier should I be focusing my energy and money in applying?

GRE VERBAL: 167
GRE QUANT: 150
GPA: 3.62 from UMass
I believe my writing samples, references, and personal statement are all solid.

Many thanks, in advance, for advice and direction. Also, please don't withhold or massage your opinion out of concern you might hurt my feelings ... I'm a rock! Thanks!             

[victorydance]

Hate to break it to you, but schools like Harvard and Penn don't offer MA programs.

[ExponentialDecay]

Hate to break it to you, but schools like Harvard and Penn don't offer MA programs.

 

Well, sure they do. Terminal MAs, mostly, but nonetheless.

 

However, the OP does not provide us with what program they're looking to apply to; nor do I suspect that the OP has even googled graduate school before posting on here. Otherwise they would have known that graduate school rankings =/= undergraduate school rankings.

 

 

Or asked ridiculous questions about the University of Phoenix, for that matter.

[Zartan]

Well, sure they do. Terminal MAs, mostly, but nonetheless.

 

However, the OP does not provide us with what program they're looking to apply to; n

 

Hi ExponentialDecay. As per my OP:

 

a terminal M.A. program in political science

 

 

Or asked ridiculous questions about the University of Phoenix, for that matter.

 

Harvard on one end, and the University of Phoenix on the other, are for purposes of benchmarking. I do not literally plan to apply to the University of Phoenix, nor do I harbor illusions that I would be a candidate for admission to Harvard. I apologize if the way I phrased my request for advise scandalized you. Thank you for your feedback.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Zartan

[victorydance]

Well, sure they do. Terminal MAs, mostly, but nonetheless.

 

However, the OP does not provide us with what program they're looking to apply to; nor do I suspect that the OP has even googled graduate school before posting on here. Otherwise they would have known that graduate school rankings =/= undergraduate school rankings.

 

 

Or asked ridiculous questions about the University of Phoenix, for that matter.

 

Penn nor Harvard offer terminal MAs in political science. Nor do any other Ivy league schools as far as I know except Columbia.

[victorydance]

To answer your question, neither your GPA nor your GRE scores are horrible. I would retake the GREs. Since you have 7+ months to study for the test you have plenty of time to up your quant score. You don't even need to study for the verbal section since your score is outstanding. With that much time and concerted effort you could break 160 in quant and be as competitive as anyone else.

 

A combined 320 GRE and a 3.6 GPA is enough to get into virtually any MA program as long as the rest of your application is strong. In fact, I would worry about researching what schools are proper fits for your interests more since you were unaware that many schools in the US don't even offer terminal MA degrees in political science. Lastly, apply broadly; don't worry about 'tiers,' worry about what are good fits.

[Zartan]

To answer your question, neither your GPA nor your GRE scores are horrible. I would retake the GREs. Since you have 7+ months to study for the test you have plenty of time to up your quant score. You don't even need to study for the verbal section since your score is outstanding. With that much time and concerted effort you could break 160 in quant and be as competitive as anyone else.

 

A combined 320 GRE and a 3.6 GPA is enough to get into virtually any MA program as long as the rest of your application is strong. In fact, I would worry about researching what schools are proper fits for your interests more since you were unaware that many schools in the US don't even offer terminal MA degrees in political science. Lastly, apply broadly; don't worry about 'tiers,' worry about what are good fits.

 

Thanks so much, this is incredibly helpful advice and great direction and insight.

 

Another question, if I could impose: I just took the GRE this afternoon, but only studied for 2 weeks and got four hours sleep last night and also have a bad cold. Nonetheless, I feel like 150 on the quant is representative of my abilities. I become extremely flustered and anxious at the first sight of numbers, and on the Kaplan practice tests never broke a 155. Assuming I retook the GRE and got another 150 on quant, where do you think that would put me in terms of the calibre of institution into which I could reasonably expect to gain entry?

 

In reference to your advice for me to focus on what schools are good fits - this author (http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/international-relations-graduate-school-pros-and-cons/) says he regrets attending the University of Alabama because, while he likes the school, it has limited his career prospects. (That said, this is for IR and is in reference to a Ph.D. program for a person who entered academia.) What are your thoughts on that?

Edited March 29, 2014 by Zartan

[victorydance]

As a general rule, MA programs are much easier to get admitted into (compared to doctoral programs). For a few reasons, least of which they are big money-makers for universities because they are more often than unfunded and require less of the school's resources.

 

It's hard to say how competitive you would be with a 3.6 GPA and 169/150 for MA programs because I don't have information (and the acceptance process is very random) about the rest of your application. That being said, there are countless people who have got admitted into MA programs like Columbia or Duke or others with stats like that.

 

About the GRE quant...the great thing about this section is the math is only high school level and is easily learn-able. I am actually in a remarkably similar situation as you. I scored 147 on my quant (with a good verbal score as well) when I took the test two years ago in the middle of my undergrad on a whim. I will be taking it again in September and have a weekly plan that focuses mainly on math. I have been doing this for a month now and have upped my practice scores already to the 155 range. My goal is to get 163+ on test day. There is no 'representative of my abilities' on the GRE, that is why it is a flawed system. Anyone can spend a lot of time upping their vocab and basic math skills and 'beat' the test.

 

Lastly, GPA and GRE scores are actually not what is going to get you accepted, but rather what gets your application considered. Both those measure are notorious for being 'benchmarkers' where if you met a certain threshold, you are through the hoop to the next stage. What is going to get you admitted is your SOP, letters of rec, and your writing sample. These are the components that show your research interests and how you fit into their program. 

[Zartan]

As a general rule, MA programs are much easier to get admitted into (compared to doctoral programs). For a few reasons, least of which they are big money-makers for universities because they are more often than unfunded and require less of the school's resources.

 

It's hard to say how competitive you would be with a 3.6 GPA and 169/150 for MA programs because I don't have information (and the acceptance process is very random) about the rest of your application. That being said, there are countless people who have got admitted into MA programs like Columbia or Duke or others with stats like that.

 

About the GRE quant...the great thing about this section is the math is only high school level and is easily learn-able. I am actually in a remarkably similar situation as you. I scored 147 on my quant (with a good verbal score as well) when I took the test two years ago in the middle of my undergrad on a whim. I will be taking it again in September and have a weekly plan that focuses mainly on math. I have been doing this for a month now and have upped my practice scores already to the 155 range. My goal is to get 163+ on test day. There is no 'representative of my abilities' on the GRE, that is why it is a flawed system. Anyone can spend a lot of time upping their vocab and basic math skills and 'beat' the test.

 

Lastly, GPA and GRE scores are actually not what is going to get you accepted, but rather what gets your application considered. Both those measure are notorious for being 'benchmarkers' where if you met a certain threshold, you are through the hoop to the next stage. What is going to get you admitted is your SOP, letters of rec, and your writing sample. These are the components that show your research interests and how you fit into their program. 

 

HC, thanks a million - this is great insight; some of the best I've had offered. I really appreciate it.

[victorydance]

No problem. If you want more advice on how I am studying for the GRE, and/or how to target programs shoot me a PM.

[juilletmercredi]

Another question, if I could impose: I just took the GRE this afternoon, but only studied for 2 weeks and got four hours sleep last night and also have a bad cold. Nonetheless, I feel like 150 on the quant is representative of my abilities. I become extremely flustered and anxious at the first sight of numbers, and on the Kaplan practice tests never broke a 155. Assuming I retook the GRE and got another 150 on quant, where do you think that would put me in terms of the calibre of institution into which I could reasonably expect to gain entry?

 

Why would you retake the GRE if you are pretty sure that you will get basically the same score?

 

I also would just like to point out that Michigan's political science program is in the top 5, and actually ranked higher than Penn's program.  It's certainly not "tier 2."  Indiana also has a top 15 program.  Actually, Penn's program isn't really known for being amazing (top 50), but Penn State also has a top 5 program.  I advise you to do a little more research on reputations within your field; you may be surprised at where the top programs are.

 

Alas, neither Michigan nor Indiana nor Penn State has an MA program in political science.  They only have PhDs.

[Zartan]

 

Another question, if I could impose: I just took the GRE this afternoon, but only studied for 2 weeks and got four hours sleep last night and also have a bad cold. Nonetheless, I feel like 150 on the quant is representative of my abilities. I become extremely flustered and anxious at the first sight of numbers, and on the Kaplan practice tests never broke a 155. Assuming I retook the GRE and got another 150 on quant, where do you think that would put me in terms of the calibre of institution into which I could reasonably expect to gain entry?

 

Why would you retake the GRE if you are pretty sure that you will get basically the same score?

 

I also would just like to point out that Michigan's political science program is in the top 5, and actually ranked higher than Penn's program.  It's certainly not "tier 2."  Indiana also has a top 15 program.  Actually, Penn's program isn't really known for being amazing (top 50), but Penn State also has a top 5 program.  I advise you to do a little more research on reputations within your field; you may be surprised at where the top programs are.

 

Alas, neither Michigan nor Indiana nor Penn State has an MA program in political science.  They only have PhDs.

 

 

Thanks, I have done research. I realize many non-Ivy AAU schools are superior in political science to some Ivy schools.  As per my previous post, I was suggesting broad categories for purposes of benchmarking only, not as a literal enunciation and exhaustive ordering of how I classify every program in America. I suppose, though, grad school message boards are not unlike the ESPN forums. If you say the Pac 12 sucks at football, USC fans will start yelling about their championships. So that's on me. And, again, I apologize for everyone who was scandalized. 

 

(For those who are likely to be offended in the future when you come across this thread; please just assume that whatever your school is that I think it is the best school in the world for political science and my post was referring to everyplace except your university.)

Edited March 30, 2014 by Zartan

[Guest Gnome Chomsky]

That's like saying, what should I have for breakfast: Eggs Benedict or Puppy Chow. 

[bsharpe269]

I think you fall into the typical profile you see you on here, Good GPA and GRE. Those things probably wont be the things that get you into a grad program, the extras will. So what research, internships, etc set you apart? These are things that you probably need to sell to get yourself into a program.

 

if you give us some more info on these things that set you apart then we can probably help more!

[Crucial BBQ]

The CSU systems lacks a definitive flagship university.  However, depending on who you talk to either Cal Poly (SLO), SDSU, or SJSU is the flagship.  Some might say Fresno.  I know that SJSU is pushing hard to become the official flagship, considering it is the oldest CSU and its original name was California State Normal School.   

 

For what it is worth, I would not "rank" SJSU just above UoP.  I understand the logic behind your ordering, though. 

Edited April 7, 2014 by Crucial BBQ

[juilletmercredi]

Thanks, I have done research. I realize many non-Ivy AAU schools are superior in political science to some Ivy schools.  As per my previous post, I was suggesting broad categories for purposes of benchmarking only, not as a literal enunciation and exhaustive ordering of how I classify every program in America. I suppose, though, grad school message boards are not unlike the ESPN forums. If you say the Pac 12 sucks at football, USC fans will start yelling about their championships. So that's on me. And, again, I apologize for everyone who was scandalized.

 

This has nothing to do with being a fan of a particular program or being offended - I have no horse in this race, as I am about to finish my PhD and I am not in political science.  You listed specific categories ("Ivy League" and "non-Ivy AAU") and universities (Penn, Michigan, Indiana), and you also asked about programs that do not exist (i.e. terminal MA programs at places like Michigan and Harvard) and then expected people to magically understand that you weren't being literal.  When everyone on a particular message board misunderstands your post, you probably didn't convey your point very clearly.

 

With that said, I think you could probably aim yourself towards tier 2 institutions with some tier 1 institutions as reach schools, particularly if your goal is to get into PhD programs afterwards.  You have a good solid GPA but mediocre GRE scores.  It really depends on your career goals, too - if you want jobs that require prestigious degrees (like maybe some top federal jobs where a prestige degree would be more competitive) then you may want to aim heavily towards top tier schools and apply to some tier 2 schools as back-ups (although not safeties).