Decisions, Decisions

[Ulixes]

Hey guys,

 

I'm trying to figure out where to go. Should I prioritize funding over placement, or placement over funding? Bear in mind that I don't have much undergrad. debt, and that my wife will be working while I'm in the program; we plan to pay off the remainder of my undergrad. debt during the MA, and then pay off the MA after that. We're especially frugal, and don't at all mind the lifestyle required for paying off the debt quickly.

 

WMU: most likely funded, and possibly a stipend ('first on waiting list for funding').

NIU: most likely partially funded ('possibility of a waiver for half tuition').

Virginia Tech: impossibility of funding.

 

Tech is out; I'll inform them later today. WMU doesn't have excellent placement, but I really want to work with Tim McGrew and Fritz Allhoff. (A complication, though: a friend in the department tells me that Drs Allhoff, McGrew, and Smith are going to be on sabbatical/leave for the 2014-15 academic year! possibly longer, in Smith's case.) NIU has much better placement, but without the funding.

 

What do you guys think?

[ZiggyPhil]

Hard to say.  I was insistent on not taking out more debt for the M.A, and I passed on perhaps better-known schools to go somewhere that funded me.  I don't see anything wrong with leaning the other way though, as long as one has a full understanding of the situation regarding philosophical employment.

[philstudent1991]

If both were funded, NIU seems like the clear choice especially since people you want to work with aren't gonna be at WMU while you're there. If they give you a decent but not fully funded deal at NIU, given that you seem to have a somewhat stable financial set up...I would consider NIU in your case. But I agree that debt for philosophy is foolish. Only you can make the decision.

[Ulixes]

Thanks for the replies!

 

Aggh; I'll flip a coin, seems most prudent!

[stressedout]

Thanks for the replies!

 

Aggh; I'll flip a coin, seems most prudent!

 

You should go to NIU so that I can go to WMU

 

trololol

[wandajune]

Looks like a tough decision. I am generally against the idea of going into debt for philosophy graduate school, but if you have a fairly stable financial situation and NIU gives you some financial aid, it doesn't seem to be a bad option.

 

I would be a bit careful, though. I've heard that, at some schools, the students with funding receive more attention from faculty than unfunded students. I don't know this to be the case at NIU, but if I were in your shoes, I would track down some current unfunded grads and try to get a frank assessment regarding the amount of attention they receive. 

[Hopephily]

Is the offer unfunded with the potential of securing funding in the future? 

[AnxiousAndy]

Not trying to hijack this thread this thread, but I am making a tough choice between programs as well and would appreciate other's perspective. I currently have offers from Georgia State's MA ($5,000 first year; $10,000 second year)  and South Florida's PhD program ($12,220 for five years). Is it stupid to decline a PhD offer for a strong masters like GSU?

 

My interests are in continental and political philosophy. USF definitely has more continental faculty, but GSU students can take 6 hours at Emory for free and they have badass continental classes every semester to add to GSU's offerings. The financial situation is better as USF, but I believe I can get by at GSU with only $4,000 to $8,000 total loans in Atlanta, which seems very manageable. I also have zero undergrad debt

 

The upside to GSU is potential to kick butt next time I apply and end up in a program that can place me in a philosophy job with health insurance (the ultimate goal). I also strongly prefer the city of Atlanta to Tampa. USF's advantage is a faculty very aligned with my interests and perhaps finishing my PhD a year earlier while not having to relocate. 

 

What do y'all think? How common is it transfer PhD programs after two years? Would a MA from GSU look better than one from USF if I attempted to transfer to a more highly regarded program after two years?

Edited April 14, 2014 by AnxiousAndy

[dgswaim]

I'd take the offer from USF, were it me. There's no guarantee that you'd have success in PhD admissions after taking a MA from GSU, even though GSU is a strong program. It might be a good credential to have, and it might make you super competitive and get you into so top-notch places... or you might get shut out. It's all so tricky and unpredictable. Besides, you can matriculate to USF as a PhD student, spend two years there and get an MA, and then apply to other programs and transfer if you want. I just know I'd prefer the safer bet, which is USF in my opinion. They're both good options, though, so it's a nice problem to have.

[Monadology]

If you plan on transferring out of USF, then just go with GSU. If you want to get an MA and then go to another PhD, you might as well go with the one that will give you best odds.

 

One thing you have to weigh into this is how competitive you care to be in the job market. Is doing philosophy worth it to you if you end up adjuncting (not that adjuncting is inevitable, but it's not an unlikely worst case scenario)? If not*, it's best to take the route that offers the most likely best case scenario (even if that scenario isn't likely) especially because you only suffer two years of opportunity cost at GSU. If you don't care to be competitive on the job market, but want to be sure you get a PhD then USF is definitely the option you want to go with. 

 

*- And assuming you're not ok with spending 5-7 years on a PhD only to find work outside of philosophy.

[AcademicX]

Not trying to hijack this thread this thread, but I am making a tough choice between programs as well and would appreciate other's perspective. I currently have offers from Georgia State's MA ($5,000 first year; $10,000 second year)  and South Florida's PhD program ($12,220 for five years). Is it stupid to decline a PhD offer for a strong masters like GSU?

 

My interests are in continental and political philosophy. USF definitely has more continental faculty, but GSU students can take 6 hours at Emory for free and they have badass continental classes every semester to add to GSU's offerings. The financial situation is better as USF, but I believe I can get by at GSU with only $4,000 to $8,000 total loans in Atlanta, which seems very manageable. I also have zero undergrad debt

 

The upside to GSU is potential to kick butt next time I apply and end up in a program that can place me in a philosophy job with health insurance (the ultimate goal). I also strongly prefer the city of Atlanta to Tampa. USF's advantage is a faculty very aligned with my interests and perhaps finishing my PhD a year earlier while not having to relocate. 

 

What do y'all think? How common is it transfer PhD programs after two years? Would a MA from GSU look better than one from USF if I attempted to transfer to a more highly regarded program after two years?

I would probably take GSU's offer and work my butt off for two years and then hope for the best in the next application season. Admittedly, philosophy applications are very unpredictable and you may end up shut out no matter how hard you try, but you may also get lucky and get into a great department. I think the opportunity to take classes at Emory is invaluable because you would get the chance to take classes with and impress faculty with a big name in continental circles (which I think plays a big role in admissions). You could also go to USF and transfer after you get your master's but I don't know how willing professors will be to write recommendation letters for you given that you would choose to leave them for another department after they invested time and money on you. 

[AnxiousAndy]

Thank you for all of the responses!

 

I would not go into USF planning on transferring, but I would consider it after two years if I did not develop a strong connection with the program or Tampa and thought I could do well at admissions. Letters of recommendation do seem to be a risk with transferring, however. 

 

Philosophy admissions are unpredictable, but if I am unable to do well enough in two years at GSU to get in somewhere at least equal to USF then I would probably also struggle if I chose USF to begin with and likely not be able to finish my PhD there. If I am unable to improve as a philosopher in the next two years, then I doubt I'm cut out for academic philosophy. 

Edited April 14, 2014 by AnxiousAndy

[Dialectica]

I'm also thinking you should go to NIU given your interests and given the absence of McGrew and Smith in your first year. But, then again, the financial consideration is huge. I'm currently trying to choose between Brandeis and WMU.

 

Brandeis

 

Pros:

 

-prestigious MA program in philosophy.

 

-prestigious school in general

 

-Their placement is phenomenal. 

 

-Eli Hirsch and Jeremy Fantl. 

 

-They offered to cover 50% of tuition and a paid TAship for roughly 6K a year 

 

-Boston is an amazing city with a wide variety of philosophical resources and conferences.

 

Cons:

 

-Tuition is very expensive. Even though they'll be covering 50%, that still leaves me with some rather large loans (unless I receive a scholarship of some sort). This is, of course, the biggest con.

 

-Boston is an expensive city.

 

 

 

Western Michigan

 

Pros:

-They are offering full funding and a TAship for the first year. 

 

-They have placed well, though inconsistently. 

 

-The cost of tuition, even without funding, is relatively small.

 

-The cost of living in Kalamazoo is quite low.

 

-Tim McGrew and Quentin Smith. Both work in areas in which I'm interested.

 

Cons:

-Tim McGrew and Quentin Smith. Apparently, both of them will be gone during Fall 2014 and Spring 2015. 

 

-Their placement is very spotty. And when they are placed, it is lower on the PGR. 

 

-lack of prestige.

 

-Tuition remission and TAship are only guaranteed for the first year. 

[PhiPhiPhi]

If both of the people you're interested in working with at WMU won't be there, I absolutely would avoid going there. It's my experience that professors rarely have enough time during sabbatical for new students, and so they shouldn't count in your considerations whatsoever. Taking your interest in them out, the choice seems clear to me.

[ianfaircloud]

Hey guys,

 

I'm trying to figure out where to go. Should I prioritize funding over placement, or placement over funding? Bear in mind that I don't have much undergrad. debt, and that my wife will be working while I'm in the program; we plan to pay off the remainder of my undergrad. debt during the MA, and then pay off the MA after that. We're especially frugal, and don't at all mind the lifestyle required for paying off the debt quickly.

 

WMU: most likely funded, and possibly a stipend ('first on waiting list for funding').

NIU: most likely partially funded ('possibility of a waiver for half tuition').

Virginia Tech: impossibility of funding.

 

Tech is out; I'll inform them later today. WMU doesn't have excellent placement, but I really want to work with Tim McGrew and Fritz Allhoff. (A complication, though: a friend in the department tells me that Drs Allhoff, McGrew, and Smith are going to be on sabbatical/leave for the 2014-15 academic year! possibly longer, in Smith's case.) NIU has much better placement, but without the funding.

 

What do you guys think?

 

Go with the funding. None of these programs is going to "set you up" for success any better than the others, in my view. I would not spend money to attend any one of these programs unless money isn't really much of an issue for you. Thing is, when you spend money to attend Tufts, you get the "Tufts" name -- which can help you in other career paths, if it comes to that. In my view, that's not the case with the programs you mentioned.

[philstudent1991]

Not trying to hijack this thread this thread, but I am making a tough choice between programs as well and would appreciate other's perspective. I currently have offers from Georgia State's MA ($5,000 first year; $10,000 second year)  and South Florida's PhD program ($12,220 for five years). Is it stupid to decline a PhD offer for a strong masters like GSU?

 

My interests are in continental and political philosophy. USF definitely has more continental faculty, but GSU students can take 6 hours at Emory for free and they have badass continental classes every semester to add to GSU's offerings. The financial situation is better as USF, but I believe I can get by at GSU with only $4,000 to $8,000 total loans in Atlanta, which seems very manageable. I also have zero undergrad debt

 

The upside to GSU is potential to kick butt next time I apply and end up in a program that can place me in a philosophy job with health insurance (the ultimate goal). I also strongly prefer the city of Atlanta to Tampa. USF's advantage is a faculty very aligned with my interests and perhaps finishing my PhD a year earlier while not having to relocate. 

 

What do y'all think? How common is it transfer PhD programs after two years? Would a MA from GSU look better than one from USF if I attempted to transfer to a more highly regarded program after two years?

2 thoughts:

1. Emory is pretty inconvenient to get to if you don't live nearby, i.e. no MARTA stations run there. If you have a car, you're fine...I guess.

2. At GSU everyone is focused on phd apps, since that's the main career objective people are pursuing. At a PhD program, obviously, probably no one else would have that shared interest with you. Having a supportive community more or less in the same boat as you can be a huge plus.

[AnxiousAndy]

2 thoughts:

1. Emory is pretty inconvenient to get to if you don't live nearby, i.e. no MARTA stations run there. If you have a car, you're fine...I guess.

2. At GSU everyone is focused on phd apps, since that's the main career objective people are pursuing. At a PhD program, obviously, probably no one else would have that shared interest with you. Having a supportive community more or less in the same boat as you can be a huge plus.

 

Thanks for this.

 

I accepted Georgia State, today!

[ianfaircloud]

Go with the funding. None of these programs is going to "set you up" for success any better than the others, in my view. I would not spend money to attend any one of these programs unless money isn't really much of an issue for you. Thing is, when you spend money to attend Tufts, you get the "Tufts" name -- which can help you in other career paths, if it comes to that. In my view, that's not the case with the programs you mentioned.

 

Hey -- I just re-read my post. It sounds horribly negative!!! I hope no one takes it that way. I think you could succeed at any of these three, but I think the funding would be the deciding factor for me.