Conditional Offer Problem!! HELP

[cwasson]

Hey everyone I need some opinions on my situation. So I just got accepted to my program but my offer is conditional, stating that I need to receive a honours bachelor of arts (that is what I said I would have when I graduated). This semester has not been going well and I may not meet the criteria for the honours designation. In my program the honours has no meaning as it does not indicate that we wrote a thesis; rather, it shows that our average was at a certain % and we received no grade lower than 60%. Therefore, because of my less than stellar grade in one course, my degree will be downgraded to a regular BA. Do you think I will not get accepted on this account? While applying to the masters program it did not specify if you needed an honours degree. Additionally, my average still meets the criteria for admission. The only difference is that my degree will not have a certain designation that really means nothing. I have worked hard for admission and the course just sucks. Furthermore, do you guys think that I should send an email asking this, or do you think this will put me on their radar? 

Let me know what you guys think! 

[smpalesh]

It may end up losing you your offer. I know that's not what you want to hear but it is a possibility.  A conditional offer is just that - an offer that has conditions on it that you must meet in order to receive the offer.  It is possible they will still accept you but you will unfortunately wait and see.  And I disagree that an honours designation means nothing - it indicates that a student is working at a level that is indicative of success at a Masters level.  I also have a conditional offer to my Masters program, I have to get a minimum 75% average in my current degree to be accepted (I will be graduating with an 87% average so not a problem).  They put those conditions on offers for a couple of reasons - one, they want to make sure that students coming in are capable of Masters level work, and two, they want to make sure that students will not slack off once they have received their acceptance.

[iphi]

It depends, is it a Canadian uni? If yes, then an Honours (vs. regular) degree is often mandatory for graduate study. Can you explain this to the prof of your course and see if there is any extra work you can do?

[cwasson]

Hi iphi, 

Yes it's Canadian, however, the only reason I ask because generally in Canadian universes especially in neuroscience programs you can apply without an honours degree and will treat it equivalent if you have lab experience. 

[RunnerGrad]

I would email them and just ask for clarification on what "honours" means.  It can mean a variety of different things at different universities.  For example, at some universities honours applies to all four-year degrees, and 3-year degrees are general degrees.  At other universities, it means you completed an honours thesis.  At still others, as in your case, it means you maintained a certain average in all your courses.

 

So I would email the university and ask them to clarify what they mean by honours.  If their definition is different from the definition of your current university, then you may be fine (i.e. they may just want to see a four year degree).  If their definition requires a certain average in all courses, then you may be out of luck.  For example, my conditional offer says I can't get below a B in any of my courses this semester, so you can bet I'm working hard in my remaining courses to make sure that doesn't happen!

[RomulusAugustulus]

I agree with Iphi. Go to the professor of the class you are not doing so hot in, explain you are planning to go to graduate school next year, and have a conditional offer and ask if there is extra credit work you can do so you can graduate with honours. 

[HKsai]

I would first ask your professor and see if you can do extra work and graduate with honors (like what the other people said). If there's nothing you can do to graduate with honors then I would definitely email the university and ask what exactly the conditions are. It doesn't matter if the admission requirements are having honors degree or not since clearly you said that you can apply without honors. It's about the condition that you applied and they expect you to follow up what you said. It's about integrity. There might be a chance that they wouldn't accept you if your transcript didn't say honors even the admission requirement didn't say so.

Edited April 17, 2014 by HKsai

[seeingeyeduck]

Do you need the course to graduate or can you withdraw from it?

Also, is it possible to retake it in the summer if it doesn't work out?

[nugget]

They put those conditions on offers for a couple of reasons - one, they want to make sure that students coming in are capable of Masters level work, and two, they want to make sure that students will not slack off once they have received their acceptance.

 

I disagree on these points... One course is not reflective of one's ability to handle graduate level work (as the rest of the courses were strong enough for the OP to get an offer) and I'm not clear on why the assumption was made that the OP was slacking? (Unless it was stated elsewhere on this site, in which case, I retract my last point). 

 

Good luck cwasson!

[cwasson]

Thanks jenste! 

Yeah I think my less than stellar mark was due to some personal factors. Everyone on here is making me nervous so I submitted an appeal to my faculty office to give me my honours degree despite having a shitty mark. I have back-up options, such as summer school, but those involve spending more money for course work so hopefully everything will work out for the best. What a time to get a bad mark, go figure. 

[HKsai]

Thanks jenste! 

Yeah I think my less than stellar mark was due to some personal factors. Everyone on here is making me nervous so I submitted an appeal to my faculty office to give me my honours degree despite having a shitty mark. I have back-up options, such as summer school, but those involve spending more money for course work so hopefully everything will work out for the best. What a time to get a bad mark, go figure. 

Best of luck to you!!!! At least you have a back up plan Just focus on the positives

[Slutsky_Walrus]

Thanks jenste! 

Yeah I think my less than stellar mark was due to some personal factors. Everyone on here is making me nervous so I submitted an appeal to my faculty office to give me my honours degree despite having a shitty mark. I have back-up options, such as summer school, but those involve spending more money for course work so hopefully everything will work out for the best. What a time to get a bad mark, go figure. 

 

I'm not trying to be an ass, but I don't see that appeal going through at any school. At least in my experience, unless you have some reasonable grounds for an appeal, the committee won't have any sympathy for you. And quite frankly "well I just need this one course to get my honours degree to get to grad school" isn't a valid reason. 

 

I agree with posters above who said go talk to your prof. 

[D84]

I have a feeling that in this case "honours" degree just means a four year degree. You're talking about ontario schools who (because they had the OAC year of high school until recently) had both 3 year general degrees and 4 year honours degrees. I don't think it's a matter of graduating "with honours". If a grade cut off has been stated and you still meet it you're probably fine. However, I strongly recommend contacting Guelph and Western to confirm this. I looked into the "honours" thing when i was applying to schools in ontario because all we have out here in BC is 4 year degrees, you can do the honours stream but don't have to. When it comes to BC applicants any 4 year degree is acceptable. You're probably fine, but, as I say, ask the school in question to clarify. 

[cwasson]

This is what I wrote for my appeal: 
 

I am writing to appeal my degree (Honours Bachelor of Arts-Honours Double Major- Major Psychology, Major Kinesiology), as I have fallen short of meeting the requirements in my final semester of undergraduate study. I have received lower than a 60% in a kinesiology course (KIN 2236B), which will not allow me to receive my desired degree module. I am appealing this as I have been accepted with a conditional offer to attend Guelph University for their MSc in Neuroscience, a program that is contingent on receiving an Honours Degree. I believe that I have worked very efficiently and proactively throughout my undergraduate education and believe that I deserve my Honours designation. Furthermore, I have completed two independent study courses (PSYCH 3998F, 3999G) for which the workload is equivalent to that of an undergraduate thesis. Moreover, I believe that my inability to meet my desired degree module is a result of certain personal circumstances, which afflicted me this final semester of study:

1. Applying to graduate school is a known stressor and to this I concur. Over this past year I have been gathering reference letters, making academic connections, as well as making moving plans. In addition to this, it has been of great financial strain for me to submit these applications. All the stress of applying, of waiting, and of rejection have accumulated and taken a toll on my degree progress.

2. As a self identified member of the LGBT community I have faced obstacles that may not be faced by members outside of this minority group. After going through a tiresome breakup with my significant other I fell into a depressive state. I briefly turned to a therapist to talk about my problems; further, I turned to my family for support. However, this required me to “come out” or “self identify” to my family for which they did not already know; they were not fully accepting of my lifestyle, which put more stress on me. This depressive phase of my life I feel caused me to lose some motivation and preform less than optimal. This is potentially the key factor that caused me not to perform at my best.

I am in full understanding that all students are put under an immense amount of stress and pressure; however, I feel that I have been put under more stress in one semester than many do face. Therefore, I feel on the terms of compassion I should be granted my degree module. I have worked hard to be accepted to my graduate program and have a passion for research in the realm of the neurosciences. I wish to make discoveries and add content to the scientific community, which starts with me being able to attend my program in the Fall. Because I have one mark that does not meet criteria for my module due to the apparent stressors in my life that have befallen me in the past few months, I fear I will not be able to secure a fulfilling future.

 

I implore you to consider my appeal and hope that you are able to see that certain circumstances lead to my poor performance in my final semester of study. The “silver-lining” in the situation is that my hard work has qualified me to attend a graduate program, and I ask you to allow me to do this by conferring me an Honours Bachelor of Arts Degree. 

do you guys think it has a shot? 

[smpalesh]

Your information is inaccurate.  First, OAC ended 11 years ago.  That is not recent.  Second, universities still have 3 and 4 year degrees.  A 3 year degree can only be a general degree whereas a 4 year degree can be a general degree OR an honours degree.  Simply being a 4 year degree does NOT make it an honours degree.  Getting an honours degree means you have maintained a certain grade level. 

I have a feeling that in this case "honours" degree just means a four year degree. You're talking about ontario schools who (because they had the OAC year of high school until recently) had both 3 year general degrees and 4 year honours degrees. I don't think it's a matter of graduating "with honours". If a grade cut off has been stated and you still meet it you're probably fine. However, I strongly recommend contacting Guelph and Western to confirm this. I looked into the "honours" thing when i was applying to schools in ontario because all we have out here in BC is 4 year degrees, you can do the honours stream but don't have to. When it comes to BC applicants any 4 year degree is acceptable. You're probably fine, but, as I say, ask the school in question to clarify. 

[smpalesh]

Personally, no I don't think they will take it into consideration.  Less than 60% is incredibly low.  In my program anything less than a 75% is a fail.  You are asking them to take a D and make it a B or higher.  As for the stressors in your life - everyone has stressors.  My father is dying and I spent the last semester travelling back and forth to see him and help take care of my mother, I have been diagnosed with a severe chronic health condition and have been in and out of treatment, I have a special needs son who needs constant care, and two other children. I of course also had all the stress of applying to graduate programs and the costs associated with it.  I feel my amount of stressors this semester has been far beyond what most people have to deal with but I still maintained an 87% average this past semester with my lowest mark being an 83%.  I am not trying to be harsh but everyone has problems and asking for a grade you didn't earn is IMO not right.

Edited April 18, 2014 by smpalesh

[cwasson]

smpalesh, 

 

I don't know if you quite understand what i'm doing, but I am not asking them to raise my mark from a D to a B. I received a 54% in the course and I need a 60% in the course for it to qualify for the overall degree designation. Furthermore, people deal with stress differently and evidently it has affected me in a very different way than you. Congratulations on getting an 87% thats great, though if the same circumstances had befallen you-you receiving a less than optimal grade- I guarantee you would be doing the same thing as me and you could use your 'circumstances' to appeal, so stop being so antagonistic. 

[Vene]

Not a Canadian here, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I have a hard time seeing academics looking at such a letter favorably. If you want the 60% mark, do the work to earn it.

[RunnerGrad]

Your information is inaccurate. First, OAC ended 11 years ago. That is not recent. Second, universities still have 3 and 4 year degrees. A 3 year degree can only be a general degree whereas a 4 year degree can be a general degree OR an honours degree. Simply being a 4 year degree does NOT make it an honours degree. Getting an honours degree means you have maintained a certain grade level.

That's not the case everywhere. At some universities in Ontario, honours refers to all four year degrees, regardless of your academic achievement. That's why I suggested that the OP contact the university to find out exactly what they mean by honours. If it's just a four year degree, then the OP is fine. Edited April 18, 2014 by RunnerGrad

[TarynBF]

cwasson,

 

Sorry to say it, but I have to agree with others that your best bet is to work with your professor to try and get a better grade.  The letter you wrote does not reflect well on your ability to handle life stressors, and you will surely have more of those while in grad school.  Do whatever you can to get your grade up, and in the meantime, clarify the conditional requirement with your potential grad school.

 

Good luck!

[nugget]

I agree with what some others have said here. I think you would have better chances by speaking to your prof about the issue. Perhaps you could do an extra assignment and have it bumped up to 60%.

 

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news but I've often heard that when students receive a conditional offer dependent upon outstanding coursework, none of your outstanding grades can be below a B (in other words 75%). I would double check the policy on this with the school that gave you a conditional acceptance. If this is the case, perhaps you could petition the school you want to attend to allow you to retake the same course in the summer, include the new grade and overlook the 56% using the letter you posted here. If a psychologist or physician can can attest to your mental state of health and provide a medical letter during that period of time your case will be stronger. Good luck!

Edited April 18, 2014 by jenste

[cwasson]

jenste, 

The only condition is that I have a degree pretty much; my marks don't matter- well except in the fact that they have downgraded my degree. The good news is that the deadline for my final transcripts to be submitted are after I've already finished my first semester of grad school, so I could do summer school and up my grade. It would just be easier and finically more viable if I didn't have to. As well, do you think that if I had already finished an entire semester of grad school they would kick me out because I didn't have the honours designation?  

[nugget]

cwasson, I think you would need to ask the grad school that question. Best to ask now when you still have a chance to do something about it, rather than after your bachelor's degree has already been conferred, as it would be quite difficult (perhaps impossible) to get them to go back and change it. At my UG insitution for instance, once your degree has been conferred it's a done deal, no changes can be made.

 

Perhaps your grad school would be fine with a 4 year degree that isn't an honours program. My department didn't offer students an honours option, for instance. I didn't explain the situation when I applied to grad schools and they all wanted an honours degree. I simply completed 4 years of course work and managed to get a few offers. Speak to the graduate admissions department and find out what their policy is. You could even frame it as a hypothetical question or ask more generally about students in this situation as you seem to be hesitant about asking them.

 

But I think that if they absolutely want an honours degree, you are taking a risk by enrolling without one. It might be more costly, but your safest bet would be to delay your graduation by a few months and retake the course in the summer so that you will get an Honours designation. I wish you luck!

Edited April 19, 2014 by jenste

[RomulusAugustulus]

 As well, do you think that if I had already finished an entire semester of grad school they would kick me out because I didn't have the honours designation?  

 

If they think you were misleading them about having an honours degree, yes absolutely. And you would be if you went without earning the honours degree and not telling them before you matriculate.

I'm still not clear on why you haven't responded to people recommending that you ask the professor if you can do an extra assignment for those 6% points? Is the course over already? And if it is, why weren't these marks already on your transcript when you applied? I will also agree that your petition letter doesn't make that great an argument. It shows a lot more initiative to ask for extra work to earn those points, than just to ask that they change your grade because you had some shit going on. 

I really am sorry this is happening to you, but you really need to work to fix this, not just ask someone to fix it for you. 

[D84]

Your information is inaccurate.  First, OAC ended 11 years ago.  That is not recent.  Second, universities still have 3 and 4 year degrees.  A 3 year degree can only be a general degree whereas a 4 year degree can be a general degree OR an honours degree.  Simply being a 4 year degree does NOT make it an honours degree.  Getting an honours degree means you have maintained a certain grade level. 

Sorry if I was unclear. I know OAC ended a while ago, but that's why 3 year degrees exist. On admission requirements, when they ask for an honours degree, in my experience, this designates a 4 year vs a 3 year degree, at least that's how it gets treated for BC applicants. We don't have this idea of maintaining a certain GPA to get honours out here. We have separate honours streams that you enrol in specifically and do an honors in your discipline rather than a major. If you needed an honours degree to get into grad school all of us out here who did double majors rather than a single honours would have a hard time getting in anywhere. It still seems worth clarifying with the particular schools about how they are using the phrase"honours degree"