Germany!

[awsaf174]

Greetings fellow applicants! I applied to UT Arlington, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech and UT dallas in their PhD in computer science program and so far heard back from two of them (OSU and TTU). Got accepted in both but nothing written about financial assistance whatsoever. People have told me to be patient and that soon the universities will make TA decisions and that I will get some funding but I'm worried that it won't happen! Since getting those replies I applied to a couple of German Universities - Saarland University (Masters in Computer Science) and Technical University of Darmstadt (Masters in Software distributed systems). I got accepted in both. Now I'm really confused as to what to do? Will doing my masters in Germany be a bad idea? They don't have tuition fees. The only thing I'm worried about is the living expense. 

If anyone here is thinking about going to Germany or knows about someone else's German experience, do share!

 

Thank you! 

[hj2012]

Getting your master's in Germany isn't a bad idea in and of itself, but it seems that your eventual goal is to get a PhD, hence why you applied to PhD programs in the States. Unless the masters would help you achieve your short-term goals (whatever they may be), I don't think the opportunity cost would be worth it.

 

Have you contacted OSU and TTU to ask directly about the funding possibilities? It seems strange that they haven't said anything one way or other this late in the game.

[awsaf174]

Thank you for your reply!

I emailed the Computer Science Department of both OSU and TTU. TTU CS grad adviser told me that TA decisions have not been taken yet and if I want I can join the International TA workshop before the semester begins but that it doesn't guarantee a TA position! On the other hand, OSU CS department didn't reply. I asked the grad college and they said I should contact the department about financial assistance. I emailed their grad coordinator and seemed like he had an auto response (within 3 to 5 minutes) ready for whoever asks about financial assistance: "We don't support every PhD student financially"! I have a relative in the same university though and he told me that TA decisions will be taken in the next two weeks.  So, I am all confused right now. If I don't get any assistance from them I need to look at other options cause if I waste too much time waiting, I might end up getting my visa after the classes start.

 

Btw, TTU already sent me my I-20!  

[spectastic]

aren't universities really cheap in Europe? what you have to worry about more is living expenses.

[awsaf174]

Well, there is no tuition fees in almost all the German universities but the living expense is really high (650-700 euros/month). So, If I go, I'll have to go knowing that If I can't earn that by working on or off campus than I'm really in trouble. The language will pose a problem in getting jobs, I reckon

[maelia8]

As an American living in Germany who has studied at university here, I can tell you that as a foreign student, especially without language skills, it will be hard to get a job doing anything besides English tutoring, and usually student visas are limited to earning 400 euros per month as a "Nebenverdienst" (side job).

 

In addition, when you apply for a student visa, the German government requires you to prove that you will have at least about 700 euros per month to support yourself (in saved income, through a stipend, scholarship, or your parents supporting you), otherwise they won't approve your visa request to study there. The proof you show to the Foreigner's Bureau has to be a bank account statement, company work contract proving employment and monthly earnings, or scholarship/stipend award letter. 

 

The best options for getting funding are through DAAD (the German Academic Exchange Service) or Fulbright/another American scholarship program (if you're a US citizen), but the application deadlines for all of those programs already passed in January or February (for funding for the Autumn 2014 semester), so I think it's unlikely that you would be able to scrape together outside funding for a start at that time. Unless you have a lot of money saved, or your parents vouch to support you and you can prove this to the visa office, heading to Germany next Fall is probably likely to be unsuccessful.

 

Another thing: If you eventually want to get a Ph.D. in the US, a Masters' from a German university will not be as well-regarded as one from an American university, so I'd recommend you stick to trying to attend a US program or it will probably hurt you in the long run.

[serpentina02]

Darmstadt is not as expensive as other cities in Germany (rent is around 300€/m). http://www.unicum.de/studienzeit/service/lebenskostenrechner/index.php?bundesland=8

http://www.studis-online.de/StudInfo/Studienfinanzierung/mietkosten.php

 

Americans are supposed to get a visa, but I know many who never registered and nothing happened - I don't know if this is the case for other nationalities, though.

 

The generalization that Master degrees from German universities are not as well-regarded as from US universities is not true - TU Darmstadt is well-regarded for engineering and science https://www.tu-darmstadt.de/universitaet/profil_1/rankings_4/index.en.jsp.

Edited May 10, 2014 by serpentina02

[awsaf174]

As an American living in Germany who has studied at university here, I can tell you that as a foreign student, especially without language skills, it will be hard to get a job doing anything besides English tutoring, and usually student visas are limited to earning 400 euros per month as a "Nebenverdienst" (side job).

 

In addition, when you apply for a student visa, the German government requires you to prove that you will have at least about 700 euros per month to support yourself (in saved income, through a stipend, scholarship, or your parents supporting you), otherwise they won't approve your visa request to study there. The proof you show to the Foreigner's Bureau has to be a bank account statement, company work contract proving employment and monthly earnings, or scholarship/stipend award letter. 

 

The best options for getting funding are through DAAD (the German Academic Exchange Service) or Fulbright/another American scholarship program (if you're a US citizen), but the application deadlines for all of those programs already passed in January or February (for funding for the Autumn 2014 semester), so I think it's unlikely that you would be able to scrape together outside funding for a start at that time. Unless you have a lot of money saved, or your parents vouch to support you and you can prove this to the visa office, heading to Germany next Fall is probably likely to be unsuccessful.

 

Another thing: If you eventually want to get a Ph.D. in the US, a Masters' from a German university will not be as well-regarded as one from an American university, so I'd recommend you stick to trying to attend a US program or it will probably hurt you in the long run.

Thank you for your reply. I still haven't decided. My mom will be my sponsor if I do go to Germany but that's only on paper I don't want to spend all her money for a masters degree. Are English tutoring opportunities mostly available? Really confused. Definitely set on leaving this year. 

[awsaf174]

Darmstadt is not as expensive as other cities in Germany (rent is around 300€/m). http://www.unicum.de/studienzeit/service/lebenskostenrechner/index.php?bundesland=8

http://www.studis-online.de/StudInfo/Studienfinanzierung/mietkosten.php

 

Americans are supposed to get a visa, but I know many who never registered and nothing happened - I don't know if this is the case for other nationalities, though.

 

The generalization that Master degrees from German universities are not as well-regarded as from US universities is not true - TU Darmstadt is well-regarded for engineering and science https://www.tu-darmstadt.de/universitaet/profil_1/rankings_4/index.en.jsp.

Thank you for your reply! I will browse the links you gave me. Hopefully it helps me decide my destination! And yes, I don't have much doubt about TUD's recognition!

[maelia8]

I should clarify: for a technical/scientific degree (whether you plan on eventually working in the USA or in Germany), German universities can be regarded as good or better than American ones, but for anything in the humanities or social sciences (if you plan on becoming a professor in the USA), it's probably not a good bet - several people I know who got higher humanities degrees in Germany had to get an additional degree in the USA before they were competitive enough to become a professor/academic in America. That being said, I'm not sure what the situation is if you get a humanities degree and take it with you to another country to seek a job (the degree may be more highly regarded in other countries). 

 

@Serpentina02 your friends must have been really lucky not to get caught: being without a visa in Germany as an American student is no joke, and I know someone who was arrested at the airport upon leaving Germany because their visa had expired a few days earlier. Normally you shouldn't be able to open a bank account or get an apartment lease if you can't prove your visa status, so I'm curious as to how they managed that.

 

@awsaf174 It's good that you have your family to sponsor you initially - that means you probably wouldn't have a problem getting a visa - but actually earning 700 euros a month is going to be very tough for you as a student. Like I said, your student visa will normally limit you to earning no more than 400-450 euros "Nebenverdienst" (side job), although you could definitely work under the table so to speak and earn more. I do English tutoring as a side job right now and charge between 10-15 euros per hour depending on whether it's adults or schoolchildren. I tutor about 10 hours per week and make an average of about 450 euros per month doing this. I got the tutoring jobs by putting up posters at the university and the local schools and didn't have a problem finding people who were interested. But like I said, 450 euros per months would basically cover your 300 euro rent plus some of your food costs and nothing else (you still need money for transportation, schoolbooks, clothes, etc.). Perhaps your family could support you 50/50 until you're able to get a scholarship lined up? You could apply for DAAD funding next year, and then you wouldn't have to worry about it anymore - DAAD funding from the German government is usually quite generous.

[awsaf174]

I should clarify: for a technical/scientific degree (whether you plan on eventually working in the USA or in Germany), German universities can be regarded as good or better than American ones, but for anything in the humanities or social sciences (if you plan on becoming a professor in the USA), it's probably not a good bet - several people I know who got higher humanities degrees in Germany had to get an additional degree in the USA before they were competitive enough to become a professor/academic in America. That being said, I'm not sure what the situation is if you get a humanities degree and take it with you to another country to seek a job (the degree may be more highly regarded in other countries). 

 

@Serpentina02 your friends must have been really lucky not to get caught: being without a visa in Germany as an American student is no joke, and I know someone who was arrested at the airport upon leaving Germany because their visa had expired a few days earlier. Normally you shouldn't be able to open a bank account or get an apartment lease if you can't prove your visa status, so I'm curious as to how they managed that.

 

@awsaf174 It's good that you have your family to sponsor you initially - that means you probably wouldn't have a problem getting a visa - but actually earning 700 euros a month is going to be very tough for you as a student. Like I said, your student visa will normally limit you to earning no more than 400-450 euros "Nebenverdienst" (side job), although you could definitely work under the table so to speak and earn more. I do English tutoring as a side job right now and charge between 10-15 euros per hour depending on whether it's adults or schoolchildren. I tutor about 10 hours per week and make an average of about 450 euros per month doing this. I got the tutoring jobs by putting up posters at the university and the local schools and didn't have a problem finding people who were interested. But like I said, 450 euros per months would basically cover your 300 euro rent plus some of your food costs and nothing else (you still need money for transportation, schoolbooks, clothes, etc.). Perhaps your family could support you 50/50 until you're able to get a scholarship lined up? You could apply for DAAD funding next year, and then you wouldn't have to worry about it anymore - DAAD funding from the German government is usually quite generous.

Your replies are really helpful. Thank you! I was confused but I think I have taken my decision at last. I'll be going to Germany if everything goes according to plan. Any idea how TU Darmstadt is? And how is living in Germany, in general? Once again, thanks a lot! 

[maelia8]

I have never been to Darmstadt (it's about 45 minutes south of where I live in Mainz/Frankfurt), but my friend's brother goes there and he likes it a lot. As a technical university, Darmstadt has quite a good reputation. It's not too far from Frankfurt, where you can go if you want more cultural diversity/better night life and restaurants. The weather in this part of Germany is quite mild and nice (in my opinion, southwestern Germany is the best area to live in terms of temperature). There are a lot of foreign students in Germany in general, and universities make an effort to provide activities and language courses especially for foreign students. I can't speak from personal experience about getting a degree from a technical university since I'm in the humanities, but I've heard that Darmstadt has good labs and that the students have good chances of getting internships at technical firms lined up either during or after their studies. It's usually easy to find a cheap place to live, and the student dorms are especially cheap and very welcoming to international students (I lived in a dorm here where 50% of the students living there were foreigners).

 

There is sometimes mild discrimination in Germany against nonwhite foreigners, especially if they don't speak German fluently, but usually from older people, and it's not something that happens every day. Most people are polite, if not incredibly friendly straight-off. Transportation infrastructure is amazing (most cities, even small ones, have an excellent bus/tram system that's not too expensive with a reduced-price student pass, and large cities also have a subway), and traveling by train or bus is incredibly easy and comfortable. Shopping can be expensive (especially for clothes and food), but the items are of very good quality. As someone from a warmer place with more sunny days, I am not a big fan of German weather, especially in spring and summer (often rainy and humid), but when it snows in winter it's quite beautiful. There are really great student discounts almost everywhere, so make sure to take advantage of them. German bureaucracy is complex and sometimes difficult to navigate (there's a bureau for everything!), but with a bit of patience you'll get through it. It's required to have health insurance in Germany, so you will be encouraged to sign up for the public student health insurance at your university (probably with AOK or TK), which is pretty cheap and has quite good coverage. Cell phone plans are usually quite reasonable here, so if you have a smartphone, cancel your home plan and sign up for a cheap plan here (you can get a limited data plan for a little as 8-10 euros per month). As an American, you can travel to Germany on a tourist visa for up to three months before you have to apply for a long-term student visa, but if you're not a US citizen, you may want to research the visa requirements for citizens of your country.

 

I hope this is helpful! If you have any more specific questions, I'd be happy to answer them

[awsaf174]

I have never been to Darmstadt (it's about 45 minutes south of where I live in Mainz/Frankfurt), but my friend's brother goes there and he likes it a lot. As a technical university, Darmstadt has quite a good reputation. It's not too far from Frankfurt, where you can go if you want more cultural diversity/better night life and restaurants. The weather in this part of Germany is quite mild and nice (in my opinion, southwestern Germany is the best area to live in terms of temperature). There are a lot of foreign students in Germany in general, and universities make an effort to provide activities and language courses especially for foreign students. I can't speak from personal experience about getting a degree from a technical university since I'm in the humanities, but I've heard that Darmstadt has good labs and that the students have good chances of getting internships at technical firms lined up either during or after their studies. It's usually easy to find a cheap place to live, and the student dorms are especially cheap and very welcoming to international students (I lived in a dorm here where 50% of the students living there were foreigners).

 

There is sometimes mild discrimination in Germany against nonwhite foreigners, especially if they don't speak German fluently, but usually from older people, and it's not something that happens every day. Most people are polite, if not incredibly friendly straight-off. Transportation infrastructure is amazing (most cities, even small ones, have an excellent bus/tram system that's not too expensive with a reduced-price student pass, and large cities also have a subway), and traveling by train or bus is incredibly easy and comfortable. Shopping can be expensive (especially for clothes and food), but the items are of very good quality. As someone from a warmer place with more sunny days, I am not a big fan of German weather, especially in spring and summer (often rainy and humid), but when it snows in winter it's quite beautiful. There are really great student discounts almost everywhere, so make sure to take advantage of them. German bureaucracy is complex and sometimes difficult to navigate (there's a bureau for everything!), but with a bit of patience you'll get through it. It's required to have health insurance in Germany, so you will be encouraged to sign up for the public student health insurance at your university (probably with AOK or TK), which is pretty cheap and has quite good coverage. Cell phone plans are usually quite reasonable here, so if you have a smartphone, cancel your home plan and sign up for a cheap plan here (you can get a limited data plan for a little as 8-10 euros per month). As an American, you can travel to Germany on a tourist visa for up to three months before you have to apply for a long-term student visa, but if you're not a US citizen, you may want to research the visa requirements for citizens of your country.

 

I hope this is helpful! If you have any more specific questions, I'd be happy to answer them

Everything you said has been really really helpful! Actually, my family is not really fond of the idea of me going to Germany since my elder brother lives in U.S. and that is creating all the confusion for me. I cannot go to Germany and than regret that I didn't head for the states. I got accepted in the PhD program of 3 universities (Oklahoma State, Texas Tech and UT Dallas) but so far, no financial assistance at all! My mom's willing to provide me with the fund required for the first year (in U.S.) but I have to get an assistantship from the second year if I want to stay there. I just don't want to take her money and put her in a difficult place cause we have a bit of debt already and spending that much for me might not be the greatest idea. If I go to Germany I'll require less support plus If I can earn a bit I can split the living expense with mom. In addition, I'm not really sure about jumping onto the PhD train right now. Don't know if I have the patience. Sorry for rambling on like this. lol. But it's a lot easier to post here than to talk to someone face to face about all this! You've been extremely helpful! You've quite bolstered my confidence in Germany! 

[maelia8]

Glad that I've been able to help! If you're not feeling sure yet about whether to go to the USA or Germany or even whether you want to do a Ph.D. right now, maybe you should take another year to think it over and see if you can strengthen your application in any way or find out about other scholarships or methods of funding (for example, apply to German universities again and also for DAAD funding so you wouldn't have to worry about getting work). Best of luck to you in making your decision, whatever you decide to do. I'm sure you'll find a way to make it work financially