Terrified of applying to grad school again

[molecularmagic]

Alright so I applied to 4 different graduate programs last fall. Three biomed Phd programs and one oceanography program (worked in the lab).  I applied to Ohio State, Michigan, Virginia, and Florida State.  Well I got in the FSU Oceanography program mainly because I worked in the lab and I was denied from all the other places.  I wasn't surprised but still disappointed.  I decided to turn down the FSU grad program because I really want to go into biomed.  So I now work in for the UF genetics institute as a lab tech and I am planning on applying again this fall but just really wanted some feedback whether it's worth it or not.  

 

Major: Biology

Minors: Chemistry and Criminology

GPA: 3.15

GRE: 150 Verbal, 153 Quantitative, 4.5 Analytical

Internships: NASA Ames Research Center

Jobs: 2.5+ years working in several labs

Papers: One first author paper under review

 

I know my weak points: my GPA and test scores.  When I applied last year I had less research experience as well as no paper under review.  I would think this would help my chances, but that is why I am asking for feedback.  I just want to know if it is worth applying again this fall.  Not necessarily the same places, but just some help!

[GeoDUDE!]

Honestly, you would have been wise to take that position. FSU is a good program in my opinion. My degree is going to be in geology but I mostly study fluid dynmaics: whats important is if the research you study interests you, not what the degree says.

 

Having a paper under review  and doing research is fine, but it really depends on the impact of that paper; If its high impact then great, you've really helped your application (this means in a top 5ish journal in your field). If its a mediocre publication, thats also good, but it might not be enough to offset your scores.

 

Something to ponder, the adcomm might not have even seen your application at those 3 places! Your scores are definitely low enough to warrant automatic rejection at strong programs considering your GRE scores are under 310 (an unoffical cutoff for many graduate schools).  

 

I think it would definately be worth applying if you could get a combined 310 on the GRE; You aren't that far, but far enough that a computer wouldn't know the difference. Then you could make the argument to the adcoms, hey my gpa is low, but my GRE is decent and I have all this research and a publication. I might be mediocre in my classes, but the thesis I'll ace because I'm good at research. Thats the argument I made, but it took me getting a high GPA in a masters program to get into a top 20 school. 

 

good luck!

Edited August 5, 2014 by GeoDUDE!

[victorydance]

I would also suggest on applying to more schools this cycle. 4 isn't enough, especially when 3 of those are the only programs you *really* want to attend.

[molecularmagic]

Thanks for the advice! The reason I denied the FSU program is because I was accepted into Oceanography and I didn't enjoy the research.  I really wanted to move in to biomedical research, and needed the experience in that field.

 

Are the cutoffs usually from GRE scores? I always thought they would be from your GPA if you had the minimum GRE scores.

[victorydance]

Both GRE and GPA are notorious for being "hoops" in the application process. Poor scores could toast your application, good scores will get you through the hoops, great scores won't give you much sway.

[iphi]

I have a very similar story! I applied to 4 grad schools my first cycle, got into only one, and that was without fundning. I got a research job in the meantime and I actually did change my focus (I applied to Education PhDs the first time, and School Psychology the second). The second time I applied to 10 universities and was accepted to 7! I really think that the better research fit and upping the number of universities I applied to really helped. The first time I also only applied to schools within my area ~2 hours away and they were all UCs... I feel like expanding my search really helped once I realized that I wanted to go to grad school more than I wanted to stay local.

 

Were you planning to re-apply to the schools from which you were previously rejected? I'm not sure how wise that would be, but make sure you add some other places regardless!

 

edit: I would also re-take the GREs if you can. You already took them once so you don't have to feel very pressured, but if you do better it may help, especially since your GPA is on the low end.

Edited August 5, 2014 by iphi

[GeoDUDE!]

Thanks for the advice! The reason I denied the FSU program is because I was accepted into Oceanography and I didn't enjoy the research.  I really wanted to move in to biomedical research, and needed the experience in that field.

 

Are the cutoffs usually from GRE scores? I always thought they would be from your GPA if you had the minimum GRE scores.

You tend to be sorted by a combination of both; but GRE tends to be better to sort because its objective. People who come from caltech notoriously have lower GPAs but higher GRE scores;  Since GPA can be weighted high or low depending on the strength of your school GRE is a tool often used.

 

Its also important to note that the minimum GRE changes from year to year in many departments; While 300 might be a cutoff for the graduate school, if 50% of the departments applicants score over 310 why would they look at anyone under 310 ?

Edited August 5, 2014 by GeoDUDE!

[GeoDUDE!]

Both GRE and GPA are notorious for being "hoops" in the application process. Poor scores could toast your application, good scores will get you through the hoops, great scores won't give you much sway.

 

That also isn't completely true; a lot of school/departmental fellowships are highly GPA + GRE dependent, departments would like to admit students who are competitive for those fellowships. If you can compete for that fellowship, they are more likely to accept you. So while its not HUGE, a stellar GRE could be the difference between close applicants, for sure. 

[geographyrocks]

I guess the questions are:

Can you afford to apply again?

How much do you want it?

 

This entire process is a pain in the rear, but you have to try if you really want it.  I know that's probably not what you were thinking about when you asked the question. 

Your GRE scores are a bit low and susceptible to an automatic cut.  Can you take it again?  I absolutely HATED taking the GRE, but I would take it again if I got those scores.  I upped my verbal score by at least 6 points just by using flashcards for vocabulary. 

 

One point I disagree on is the reputation of the journal that your paper is published in.  I have a paper in review in a journal not really even worth mentioning, but it did wonders for my application. 

[Gvh]

 

One point I disagree on is the reputation of the journal that your paper is published in.  I have a paper in review in a journal not really even worth mentioning, but it did wonders for my application. 

 

Agreed. If you happen to get a first author cover piece in Nature, then good for you. But to be honest, the difference between someone without a paper to someone with a paper, even if it is low tier and not hugely relevant to the lab, demonstrates your ability to do research, your knowledge of the "process" and your willingness to continue knowing what the process entails, which is ultimately what they are trying to figure out from your application. 

[molecularmagic]

I guess the questions are:

Can you afford to apply again?

How much do you want it?

 

This entire process is a pain in the rear, but you have to try if you really want it.  I know that's probably not what you were thinking about when you asked the question. 

Your GRE scores are a bit low and susceptible to an automatic cut.  Can you take it again?  I absolutely HATED taking the GRE, but I would take it again if I got those scores.  I upped my verbal score by at least 6 points just by using flashcards for vocabulary. 

 

One point I disagree on is the reputation of the journal that your paper is published in.  I have a paper in review in a journal not really even worth mentioning, but it did wonders for my application. 

Ok so I do want to go to grad school, I guess it was more do I even try a Ph.d. or retake the GRE. Just random advice to help my application this coming Fall.  I'm just worried about not getting anywhere and having the feeling "well what do I do now".  

 

I think I'm going to take it again. I've heard no matter what journal you publish in it is definitely a huge plus.  I submitted mine to PLOS one which I know isn't huge, but I am the first author.  That should show I can do the entire research process, I just suck at taking classes

[geographyrocks]

Ok so I do want to go to grad school, I guess it was more do I even try a Ph.d. or retake the GRE. Just random advice to help my application this coming Fall.  I'm just worried about not getting anywhere and having the feeling "well what do I do now".  

 

I think I'm going to take it again. I've heard no matter what journal you publish in it is definitely a huge plus.  I submitted mine to PLOS one which I know isn't huge, but I am the first author.  That should show I can do the entire research process, I just suck at taking classes

Then hell yeah you should try again!  I think this is one of those things that if you didn't try, you would always wonder.  Read some of the threads on GRE resources.  I really think the hurdle is those automatic cutoffs. 

One other thing, did you reach out to professors that you were interested in working in?  I know it varies from field to field, but it definitely helped me. 

 

As for gpa, I can't even imagine what mine would be had I stayed with Biology.  Cellular division...protein transport...my mind just stops functioning when I start to think about it! lol

[victorydance]

That also isn't completely true; a lot of school/departmental fellowships are highly GPA + GRE dependent, departments would like to admit students who are competitive for those fellowships. If you can compete for that fellowship, they are more likely to accept you. So while its not HUGE, a stellar GRE could be the difference between close applicants, for sure. 

 

Any given cohort will have plenty of applicants who can compete for fellowship. Admission committees are aware that a few points difference past a certain point of GRE scores means absolutely nothing towards the potential of the student.

 

While it could make a difference, you are much likelier to beat out others from your LORs, SOP, or writing samples than your GRE or GPA scores.

[bsharpe269]

Ok so I do want to go to grad school, I guess it was more do I even try a Ph.d. or retake the GRE. Just random advice to help my application this coming Fall.  I'm just worried about not getting anywhere and having the feeling "well what do I do now".  

 

I think I'm going to take it again. I've heard no matter what journal you publish in it is definitely a huge plus.  I submitted mine to PLOS one which I know isn't huge, but I am the first author.  That should show I can do the entire research process, I just suck at taking classes

 

Having a first author paper in PLOS one is amazing for someone who hasn't even started grad school!

[VioletAyame]

Ok so I do want to go to grad school, I guess it was more do I even try a Ph.d. or retake the GRE. Just random advice to help my application this coming Fall.  I'm just worried about not getting anywhere and having the feeling "well what do I do now".  

 

I think I'm going to take it again. I've heard no matter what journal you publish in it is definitely a huge plus.  I submitted mine to PLOS one which I know isn't huge, but I am the first author.  That should show I can do the entire research process, I just suck at taking classes

 

I would say you can possibly avoid that feeling by having a backup plan or at least not let the application process become your whole life. Don't get me wrong, you should always try your best, but life goes on whether or not you get into grad school, and you want it to be enjoyable regardless. Can you keep working in the lab you're currently at if you don't get in this year? Do you want to stay should that happen? Can the experiences you've had translate into another job, somewhere else you might want to be at beside grad school? With some preparation, I think you can safely avoid the "well what do I do now" feeling, which seems to be one of the main hindrances to your reapplying right now.