Making Up for a Low Undergrad GPA (?)

[mattecon]

Hi all,

 

I'm wondering to what degree a relatively lower undergrad GPA will hurt my chances of getting into a top ten PhD program.  

 

I finished my undergrad with a 3.4, double major (in the liberal arts), and with special honors (in degree honors program/thesis) in three years (at the university of texas)

I'll be finishing my MA from a top ten school in d.c. with between a 3.8~3.9.  Good GRE scores/ lots of RA experience/field research work, and good recs.

 

My concern is that I've heard that admin committees are just looking for reasons to throw out your app, and my low undergrad seems like one of those reasons -- to what extent is this going to be a barrier for admissions into a top program?  What are ways of mitigating it (other than good app in other categories) ie, do you mention it in your personal statement or...?

 

Much appreciated 

[victorydance]

3.4 really isn't that low man. I have a similar GPA and I am applying to top 10 programs and I don't even have a masters. I won't be mentioning it at all, it is what it is.

 

Honestly, not sure where this myth came from where you need perfect GPAs to get into top 10 programs. Go look at the gradcafe stats, there are plenty of people who got into great schools with a 3.4 GPA.

[mattecon]

That's reassuring -- Yeah, I'm not sure how much of it is myth or truth, but you certainly do hear it a lot, even from poli scientists: http://chrisblattman.com/about/contact/gradschool/

 

Makes me nervy 

[bsharpe269]

I am in a similar situation with a 3.3uGPA and 4.0 MS GPA. I am also worried that my undergrad grades will ruin my chances at many of my top choice schools.

[MiroslavBass]

Most of admitted students to the top schools have 3.9-4.0 GPA. I don't want to dissapoint you. It's just a pure fact. I guess 4.0 GPA is something like a permit for student for being treated like a competitive one. I would definitely apply to a couple of middle programms just in case. Apply to as many as possible programms. From top to middle.

[cooperstreet]

I had a lower undergrad GPA than all of you mother fuckers and got into a top 5. Quit worrying. 

[catchermiscount]

Most of admitted students to the top schools have 3.9-4.0 GPA. I don't want to dissapoint you. It's just a pure fact. I guess 4.0 GPA is something like a permit for student for being treated like a competitive one. I would definitely apply to a couple of middle programms just in case. Apply to as many as possible programms. From top to middle.

 

I wouldn't take this advice too seriously.  Yes, having a good GPA helps, but a 3.9 is not absolutely necessary.  A good rest-of-the-application-packet can more than make up for a 3.4 or whatever.

[mattecon]

I had a lower undergrad GPA than all of you mother fuckers and got into a top 5. Quit worrying. 

 

Haha, that's what I like to hear!  How did you make up for it cooperstreet, i.e., what were the strengths of your app, if you don't mind me asking?

 

 

I wouldn't take this advice too seriously.  Yes, having a good GPA helps, but a 3.9 is not absolutely necessary.  A good rest-of-the-application-packet can more than make up for a 3.4 or whatever.

 

Good to know.  The reason I was asking is because you do get quite a bit of people saying what Miroslav said.

[victorydance]

How I think the myth got perpetuated that you need perfect GPA scores to get into Ph.D. program is this:

 

In all likelihood, usually the best students and most competitive applicants will have great GPAs. I mean, if you are an excellent student it's not that hard to get a 3.8-4.0 GPA. Therefore, it's not that implausible to expect many top program admits to have stellar GPAs.

 

That being said, there are multitudes of reasons why someone could have a lower GPA. From personal reasons, to variance due to different marking standards, to being a lame-bloomer academically, to choosing the wrong major and switching.

 

I don't think admission committees really place much emphasis on GPAs because they are so varied and not uniform, and they also know that they are a terrible predictor of success in a graduate program. If your GPA is above 3.4, it really shouldn't "hurt" you if you have a good application. At the end of the day, they are going to make decisions between the last few applicants based on more tangible parts of your application, like writing samples, SOP, and LORs.

Edited August 16, 2014 by victorydance

[mattecon]

How I think the myth got perpetuated that you need perfect GPA scores to get into Ph.D. program is this:

 

In all likelihood, usually the best students and most competitive applicants will have great GPAs. I mean, if you are an excellent student it's not that hard to get a 3.8-4.0 GPA. Therefore, it's not that implausible to expect many top program admits to have stellar GPAs.

 

That being said, there are multitudes of reasons why someone could have a lower GPA. From personal reasons, to variance due to different marking standards, to being a lame-bloomer academically, to choosing the wrong major and switching.

 

I don't think admission committees really place much emphasis on GPAs because they are so varied and not uniform, and they also know that they are a terrible predictor of success in a graduate program. If your GPA is above 3.4, it really shouldn't "hurt" you if you have a good application. At the end of the day, they are going to make decisions between the last few applicants based on more tangible parts of your application, like writing samples, SOP, and LORs.

 

Thanks for this.  I also suspected an endogenous effect with GPAs and admit students.  Will try not to let it get to my head too much then!

[Poli92]

I second victorydance's remarks.  Students with high GPA's may do better in admissions but it probably has a lot more to do with said GPA correlating with other indicators of performance and prospects shown in the applicant's file, not because of the intrinsic value of the GPA.  Regardless, the myth continues.  

 

That being said, I think that given the other dimensions of the OP's file s/he will do just fine. 

[mattecon]

I second victorydance's remarks.  Students with high GPA's may do better in admissions but it probably has a lot more to do with said GPA correlating with other indicators of performance and prospects shown in the applicant's file, not because of the intrinsic value of the GPA.  Regardless, the myth continues.  

 

That being said, I think that given the other dimensions of the OP's file s/he will do just fine. 

 

That is reassuring, thank you -- although I'm still quite nervous (aren't we all?)

[victorydance]

That is reassuring, thank you -- although I'm still quite nervous (aren't we all?)

 

I'm not nervous. Think about it: whatever happens, happens. All you can do is put your best foot forward and make your application as good as it can be. You can't change some things, but you may be able to improve others.

 

It's not the end of the world if you don't have a great cycle. Life goes on.

[ecm07e]

I had a 3.0 uGPA and I got into every school I applied to except Georgetown. I received an email after the initial rejection letter asking me to reapply next year, GPA isn't everything. I had a strong SOP and even stronger LORs. 

[mattecon]

One last question on this, everyone.  

 

I spent two semesters at one undergrad university, one abroad, and then the rest of the time at the university that granted my degree.  When an application asks for undergrad GPA, should I aggregate them from all the universities or just put what is on my graduating transcript?  The reason I ask is because aggregating helps my GPA, but also major-GPA would change as some of that coursework wasn't taken at my graduating institution, although the courses applied to that major.

[AuldReekie]

One last question on this, everyone.  

 

I spent two semesters at one undergrad university, one abroad, and then the rest of the time at the university that granted my degree.  When an application asks for undergrad GPA, should I aggregate them from all the universities or just put what is on my graduating transcript?  The reason I ask is because aggregating helps my GPA, but also major-GPA would change as some of that coursework wasn't taken at my graduating institution, although the courses applied to that major.

 

Did the credits/courses taken at university 1 and abroad count toward your degree at your final institution? Most applications allow you to input each university and the relevant GPA separately. I'd go with the GPA from the final university, although I believe you might need to send transcripts for all three. 

[mattecon]

Yes they did.  But in the American system, when you transfer between universities, although a course may go to the degree, your GPA begins anew.  

 

When applying for my Masters, I was only allowed to submit one GPA, and I put what was on my graduating transcript.  And yep, will need to send all transcripts.