GRE - a very important part of the application?

[bsharpe269]

I heard something interesting from a professor today. This particular PI has been on the admission committee for a number of schools with varying ranks (a couple top 10 programs and also one ranked around 60) and said that the adcoms consider GRE an incredibly important peice of the application. He said that this is because it is the only standardized way to compare applicants. You can't compare GPA from different schools, you can't compare LORs other than the obvious bad vs great huge difference. Aside from publications, the only way to really compare applicants unbiasedly is with the GRE. He basically said that a GRE can in no way make a bad application good but that among already good applicants, that he has always seen the GRE used as a very important comparison. This is the second time that I have heard something along these lines from a professor (and the first was from a director of a phd program).

 

Has anyone heard anything similar? I see people write on here every day that GREs are only used as a cut off. Does anyone on here have any information that makes them think this is true or is this just a rumor on here that keeps being passed on? The answer to this questions might just be that some professors see it as very important and others dont even look at it. Id be interested in anyone else's thoughts on this though.

 

(For the record, my GRE scores are fine. I think that this is an interesting subject to open up discussion on though.)

 

[Eigen]

I've never heard that. 

 

I know our program uses them initially, and very high scores can be impressive, but GRE scores pale in importance compared to your CV, research experience, SOP and letters. 

 

For international students, depending on the country, they can be mildly useful to completely disregarded. 

[fuzzylogician]

I am sure they are used more in large programs that get lots of applications for an initial pass and maybe even in later rounds, but I've never heard of GRE scores being taken more seriously than the CV, SOP, writing sample, and LORs at the end of the day. Those should be enough to tell applicants apart, even if you can't easily compare their grades. I've heard of GRE scores mattering for fellowships and awards, but not really anything beyond that. 

[Ankghost0912]

I got a GRE of 323 (160V,163Q 4.0 AWA). How do you guys think that would affect my application at univs like Stanford, UCB etc given that I have excellent acads 3 projects and excellent Letter of Recommendations

[victorydance]

I think the problem, and I know many committees completely understand this, is there is diminishing effects of high scores on GRE after a certain point. There have been studies that have shown that GRE quant does actually correlate with grad student success, but only up to a certain point.

 

Basically, as soon as you hit 163+ there is really no difference between two scores. Getting one or two extra questions out of 40 questions on a standardized test means nothing and committees are full aware of this.

 

That being said, there is also the other side of the coin: bad GRE scores are enough to take you out of contention alone. I would say that anything under 158+ on either section is not good. That seems to be the cutoff (around the 80 percentile) that you need to hit before you are safe from being cut by your GRE alone. 

 

But after that, I would think they would weigh the more substantive portions of your profile when deciding the last few spots of a cohort. There is just so much more information in your SOP, LORs, and writing sample to make decisions on.

 

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I also think a writing sample is a fairly standardized way of comparing applicants. There really aren't any inherent advantages/disadvantages to certain people with this portion of the application.

Edited September 27, 2014 by victorydance

[Catria]

In fields with writing samples, the writing sample carries a lot of weight, that's true. But how would you go around awarding fellowships across fields, if you were a graduate school trying to lure the best students you could?

 

You're trying to compare apples and oranges: grading practices, as well as expectations of research experience, are uneven from a field to another, not all fields require a writing sample, and even among fields that require one, not all fields have the same conventions... that's where the GRE comes in for awarding financial aid.

[Robes]

I heard something interesting from a professor today. This particular PI has been on the admission committee for a number of schools with varying ranks (a couple top 10 programs and also one ranked around 60) and said that the adcoms consider GRE an incredibly important peice of the application. He said that this is because it is the only standardized way to compare applicants. You can't compare GPA from different schools, you can't compare LORs other than the obvious bad vs great huge difference. Aside from publications, the only way to really compare applicants unbiasedly is with the GRE. He basically said that a GRE can in no way make a bad application good but that among already good applicants, that he has always seen the GRE used as a very important comparison. This is the second time that I have heard something along these lines from a professor (and the first was from a director of a phd program).

 

 

I confirm that: a few weeks ago two well-known professors in my field (and working in top-10 tier universities) just told me to pay a lot of attention to the GRE just for that reason. According to them, the GRE is important not just for international applicants but even for evaluating American students due to the grade inflation occurred in the last few years.

 

So, be prepared..

[tuckbro]

I have heard this too, particularly in the early stages. Once you have an interview it becomes more about fit, but you need minimum scores to make it to that point.

[Robes]

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21615616-not-what-it-used-be-grade-expectations

[VulpesZerda]

That being said, there is also the other side of the coin: bad GRE scores are enough to take you out of contention alone. I would say that anything under 158+ on either section is not good. That seems to be the cutoff (around the 80 percentile) that you need to hit before you are safe from being cut by your GRE alone. 

 

Well, that's terrible news for me. Possible that I will land around that score for Verbal, impossible for Quant. Taking it in 12 days. I have no blunders in other areas of my applications, though...

[chewycandy]

Personally I think SOP, cv and rec letters are much more important. GRE is like a threshold for your applications to be viewed by the committee: need to meet the minimum requirement, but of course, the higher the better 

[jujubea]

Well, that's terrible news for me. Possible that I will land around that score for Verbal, impossible for Quant. Taking it in 12 days. I have no blunders in other areas of my applications, though...

 

Geez! I have a 158 on the quant section and now I'm getting worried seeing that post! 

 

Good luck this week Vulpes!

[VulpesZerda]

Geez! I have a 158 on the quant section and now I'm getting worried seeing that post! 

 

Good luck this week Vulpes!

 

Thank you!! 

[victorydance]

In fields with writing samples, the writing sample carries a lot of weight, that's true. But how would you go around awarding fellowships across fields, if you were a graduate school trying to lure the best students you could?

 

You're trying to compare apples and oranges: grading practices, as well as expectations of research experience, are uneven from a field to another, not all fields require a writing sample, and even among fields that require one, not all fields have the same conventions... that's where the GRE comes in for awarding financial aid.

 

Well, I wasn't actually talking about fellowships. Most schools award fellowships on GRE + GPA, which is fine. But at the end of the day, the most important thing is admittance into a program. Getting funding once you are in a grad program is actually easier than a lot of people make it out to be. Secondly, if you are only applying to mostly top programs, every student that is admitted gets partial-full funding anyways.