Seeking counsel re: grad school considerations

[Suraj_S]

Hi, all!

This is my first post on GradCafe.

I'm in the process of selecting and applying to psychology grad programs. Basically, my biggest questions are:

• Given my background, interests, and creds, should I go for my Master's before the Ph.D.?
• Which types of programs (say, in terms of ranking) should I reasonably expect to get into?

Basic info: I graduated from UC Santa Barbara with B.A.'s in Psychology and Philosophy, and a cumulative GPA of 3.09. My psych GPA was 3.15, philosophy 2.96. I worked in two psychology labs, one from October last year to this August and the other from October to December last year. I recently took the GRE and scored 168V/158Q/5.5W. I have two solid rec letters lined up, and am currently choosing who to ask for my third.

Now, for extra-curriculars. I was on a debate team (for the Ethics Bowl intercollegiate competition) from March last year to this June. I wrote for the campus' top newspaper (Science/Tech column) from October '13 to this August, and wrote on topics ranging from psychology (including personal opinions and arguments) to physics, tech, A.I., local events, business, ethics, and public policy. During this time, I worked closely with the campus' theoretical physics department in promoting their outreach efforts. Finally, I was a member and officer of an on-campus club that met each week to discuss presentation ideas, and deliver them to public audiences after each quarter in a format similar to TED's model. I gave my self-produced presentation on personality psychology/cognitive neuroscience.

My specific areas of interest include personality/cognitive/social psych, positive psych/mindfulness (the lab I worked in for nearly a year focuses heavily on this, and I recently attended a positive psych conference to network at one of my target schools), Jungian psych, existentialism/humanism, psychology of self, I/O, and HSP/sensory processing disorder. As you may have surmised, my interests are both research-oriented and clinical in nature.

Bottom line is: I know I want to go into psychology, and my ultimate goal is to obtain a Ph.D. The question now is how to reach that point--whether I should go for a Master's first, how to sell my applications successfully, and so on.

Any tips or related stories/experiences would be greatly appreciated!

Edited September 27, 2014 by Suraj-X

[BeingThere]

Hi Suraj-X,

 

I'm unclear on what kind of psychology PhD you want.  I would think you were interested primarily in counseling psychology, except for the "I/O" and the "HSP/sensory processing disorder".

 

I would suggest a master's in general psychology - and use that time to more clearly define your career goals and your interests.  The other thing a master's will do for you is get you a bit past your low undergrad GPA.  Your GRE scores are good but your GPA is borderline.  In fact, many average PhD applicants will have undergrad GPAs of greater than 3.5.  PhD programs don't care so much about extracurriculars.  Undergraduate research experience is more highly valued.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Bren2014

[Suraj_S]

Thanks for the response, Bren. I was initially worried about having no clinical work/research experience, but I will be working in a clinical care center during my time off--so hopefully that counts for something.

 

Your suggestion to pursue a Master's first seems sound. Of the general psychology Master's programs that I've looked into, an emphasis in clinical, research, or something else is usually included, which definitely makes the option more appealing. Will have to look more into it: hopefully my extra-curriculars could mean more while applying.

[lewin]

Will have to look more into it: hopefully my extra-curriculars could mean more while applying.

 

With the caveat that I've never been in the position to accept/reject graduate school candidates... while extracurricular stuff counts for college, my impression is that they count for very little in graduate school admissions. Being cynical, extra stuff could even be a mark against you-- potential advisors might think that you should have spent that time studying harder or getting involved in research. They might also wonder whether similar activities will distract you in graduate school. 

 

Just throwing this out there. You might want to ask a trusted professor whether it's wise to emphasize these things in your application. I can't say for sure myself.

 

Otherwise, Bren's advice was good.

[Suraj_S]

Thanks, lewin.

Still open to input (of any sort, really) from others regarding the application process. My main 'umbrella' interest at the moment is positive psychology, and I've compiled a list of POI's with related interests whom I'll be contacting shortly.

Also, I'm more interested in social psych programs, of the Ph.D. ones I'm applying to.

[juilletmercredi]

Your extracurriculars don’t really matter.  The science/tech writing is interesting, but the only thing a future psychology department will care about is the research experience (and MAYBE the TEDx-type talks if they were on scientific psychological issues, but even that will be a very minor consideration).

 

Your interests are far too wide-ranging.  Personality, cognitive, and social are three different subfields, for example, and while you can combine them in some coherent way I don’t see evidence that you’ve done that.  What do you mean by Jungian psychology?  Carl Jung studied a lot of things.  Do you have a rough “elevator speech” of your research interests?  Something that can be summed in one sentence?  For example, my research interests are in the connections between substance use, mental health, and sexual risk/HIV risk behavior in African Americans.  Now that work cuts across social psychology, health psychology, cultural psychology, and takes influences from community psychology, but if I simply said I had interests in those areas nobody would know what I was talking about.  Do you have a similarly simple description of your interests?

 

Normally I would say that MA programs in psychology are pretty much useless, with two exceptions: 1) people who have no background in psychology but want to go to a PhD in psychology program, and 2) people with very low GPAs (<2.75) who need to prove that they can handle the graduate-level coursework.   I say this only because MA programs are very expensive and funding for MAs in psychology is close to nonexistent at most programs.  Besides that, most PIs want to see extra research experience.  

 

Personally I think that a 3.09 with a 3.15 in psychology is high enough that an MA is unnecessary - although taking a few graduate classes as a non-degree student at a local public university, if they allow it, could emphasize your psych abilities.  There are other ways to narrow down your interests, and frankly, you need more research experience especially in the competitive social subfield.  You can try to volunteer as a research assistant, or you can try to get a job as a project coordinator/research manager at a university psych lab, a lab in a related field (like psychiatry or public health/medicine), or a non-academic institution that does research.

[Suraj_S]

Update:

 

Though I'm still generating specific research questions (and self-confidence) to approach POI's with, I've come to the conclusion that I'm probably better-suited to be shooting for a clinical (rather than social) psych doctorate. Given this, how much prior research experience is "enough" to have a good shot at a reasonably respected program? As stated before, I only have a year's worth across two labs. I'm currently poking around to see whether I can snag an R.A. position that will let me do remote work. (I've already graduated, and my former school is too far away.) I'll see whether UCLA is looking for any R.A.'s, but I feel like they won't take anyone they haven't yet met/who isn't attending the school. Hopefully I'm wrong on that one, though.

 

Any thoughts on how I can make this work?

Edited October 5, 2014 by Suraj-X

[Suraj_S]

Also, regarding juilletmercredi's suggestion above that I take some graduate courses at a public school: could doing well on the Psych GRE effectively substitute for that, and make up for my GPA in an equivalent way? I've signed up for it already (if nothing else, it'll be fun to prepare for/do well on), but still wondering. Classes, while not entirely out of my way or anything, would be more of an investment overall.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Suraj-X

[Suraj_S]

I'm also not worried about what to say to POI's regarding my interests, so much as I'm unsure of how to approach them (virtually) in the first place.

[Lisa44201]

I would suggest applying to Master's programs, for a few reasons:

 

I respectfully disagree with part of what Juillet said: I think your GPA is on the low side for admission directly into a PhD program. It's not impossible, but I think you need to be prepared for that. Get a Master's degree and prove that you are capable of 4.0 grad-level work.

 

Additionally, a Master's program with a Thesis option will provide you with research experience, shoring up that particular area in your application as well.

 

In the interests of full disclosure, I earned my Master's degree a year and a half ago before going on for my PhD, so I am quite familiar with this path.