Applying to Department that is experiencing "changes"

[ToomuchLes]

Over the last few days, Ive been coming into more contact with all my POIs by inviting them to a phone appointment to discuss relevant information about their Graduate programs, get better acquainted, discuss our research interests and so. For one particular institution, I talked to my primary POI and she said only positive things about the program, but she also informed me that I should email Professor Y cause shes doing similar things like I am, albeit a different time period. I emailed Prof Y, and in her reply she said : "That said, I'm sorry, but I'm not accepting students for next year.  Our graduate program is going through some changes, and I'm not sure that I'd be comfortable bringing in U.S. history graduate students at the moment.  I would not want to encourage you to consider our program unless I fully  thought we would best serve your needs."

 

My primary POI did not mention any of these "changes," nor am I aware of this means for potential graduate students. Should I still apply to this school? I was thinking that during my next phone appointment with my first choice POI (we had to cut it short cause she was going to class) I ask her to elaborate regarding what these changes are, and what they mean. Do you think its too audacious of me to ask?

[iphi]

Do not apply. She is basically waving a giant "CAUTION" road sign under your face. She is doing you a favor by telling you the truth when others may not, whether for their reputation or whatever else. My advice is not to apply.

Edited October 10, 2014 by iphi

[ToomuchLes]

It sounds exactly how you illustrated, but I found myself coming up with counterarguments. Professor Y is a new professor, and not exactly in my area of interest, so maybe SHE is in a position that is changing; while my primary POI is tenured. Thats a simple counter that I thought of, immediately, after reading both their responses, but yes, you may be right, that Prof Y might be directly honest with me. 

 

I noticed that youre already attending graduate school, do you know what these "changes" might imply?

[Vene]

Do not apply, you just got handed a huge red flag.

[bsharpe269]

Agree with the others, don't apply.

[surefire]

"Changes" could mean lots of things, micro or macro, and they're not all necessarily deal-breakers, but it's good to consider the source. Grad students might give you a heads-up about changes to funding packages/awards or the amount of TA/RA work expected or professor appointments (I've encountered departments that had shifting rules about cross-appointed profs, like, they couldn't supervise a student in department X because 51% of their appointment is at department Y) - these things can often be figured out. There might be other changes that are tougher to find out about or predict the fall-out of, and these would be the things that faculty are sensitive to, like changes to the department's fundamental culture/vision/priorities (maybe signaled by a new chair that faculty aren't sure they like yet, or new search committee/tenure committee structures). And there might be scandalous stuff that you hear whispered about (divorces, affairs, failed collaborations) that effect the department a bit on its periphery but ultimately doesn't impact your day-to-day or grand scheme stuff - though that juicy stuff you usually become privy to once IN the department. 

 

But this right here:

 

"I would not want to encourage you to consider our program unless I fully  thought we would best serve your needs."

 

That sounds pretty global and dire, man! This person doesn't know you from a hole in the ground, but they feel confident/compelled enough to ward you off (in writing!)? You had best heed it.

 

I'd also add: take care broaching this with the primary POI. I'm pretty sure it'll be a bad scene for SOMEONE if you directly quote professor Y to the primary. It's not nice to find out that someone you are referring students to is warding them away, and professor Y should be able to give good faith advice if they think students are better served elsewhere. If you have a good relationship with a recent prof of yours (maybe one that's writing you a letter), you might float it by them to see if they can comment on the ambiguity; these fields can be tiny, so they might know what the deal is, or at least, they can confirm what others have said here: this is a red flag, regardless of where it came from.

[ToomuchLes]

Thank you for the elaboration, surefire. That was what I was looking for. 

 

Im going to pass along this information to one of my LOR writers, and get their opinion on the matter. Likewise, I will meditate on how to approach my primary POI with this new information; obviously, I need to be careful cause, like you mentioned, I wouldn't want to get Prof Y in trouble, if my primary found out Y is warding off potential students. 

 

Honestly, this is truly disappointing news for me. I've been in contact with three professors at this particular institution, all of them interested in my work and, I, interested in theirs, but then one professor throws up a red caution sign

 

>.<! Ugh.

 

 

 

EDIT : When I inform my LOR writer, should I specifically say who said this, and which institution? Also, should I email 1-2 graduate students in that program asking for their advise?

Edited October 10, 2014 by LeventeL

[juilletmercredi]

That’s very vague, and I would ask Professor Y what she meant about changes.  I think if a professor is willing to say something like that, she should be willing to discuss in some limited depth what exactly the changes are and how she things they may affect a graduate student.  (I have told people not to apply to my program before, but I have explained WHY I think they would be a poor fit.)  No, it’s not audacious of you to ask a question about something that another professor explicitly brought up to you.

 

If you don’t want to go back to her but you also don’t want to ask the POI, I would contact a current graduate student (look on the website or ask the departmental coordinator to put you in contact with one).  They will tell you the details.  My department also went through some “changes”, and I was pretty honest with prospective students who had heard about them and wanted to know about them.  These changes had little to no impact on my education.  So I wouldn't advise a student not to attend this department on that basis, but I do know a few students who gave more strongly worded warnings against prospective students coming here.  But there were another set of changes that adversely affected student funding in the department in a particular track, so I would certainly advise a prospective student in that track to be careful applying there and evaluate their offer carefully.

 

I wouldn’t say definitely don’t apply.   After all, if you apply, that doesn’t mean you have to attend even if you get accepted.  You might as well apply, see what happens, and if you get accepted you can visit and ask people in some more depth.  The changes could be something really bad, or they could be something that won’t affect you very much at all, or they could be something that Professor Y is bitter about.  But I WOULD say proceed with caution and assume that Y is a rational actor with good intentions and is waving a giant red flag for you. 

 

Also, your research interests sound SO SO INTERESTING.

[Crucial BBQ]

I dunno.  You say that three faculty members in this program are interested in working with you, with one of them being tenured (and having nothing but good things to say!), but one newbie is telling you to apply somewhere else.

 

At this point you can only speculate why Prof Y said what she said, but the current tally is 3 "against" 1.  

 

Personally, I would get back into contact with Prof Y before you talk to your main POI, mention that you feel this is your "best fit" program, and if she can elaborate on what she initially said.