Learning a Foreign Language in Graduate School

[coespost]

I'm fairly new to this forum. Essentially, my question pertains to the fact that I've begun applying to graduate schools for next year and I've noticed that many (such as UNC, Rutgers, etc), require proficiency in two foreign languages, but that this requirement doesn't have to be fulfilled until midway or near the end of the PhD program. I have working knowledge with one foreign language, which I plan on studying up so that I can at least be able to read some novels, albeit still some reliance on a dictionary, by the time next fall. However, that is it - I have no experience beyond this one language. Do graduate schools like this generally allow sufficient space to learn an additional language, from scratch, if needed, or would this be too much when considering the rest of a typical graduate course/teaching load?

 

Grateful for any responses with knowledge on this. I'm getting pretty tired of speculating on whether this is a critical area based on what I've read so far online and what I see on schools' websites. I'd like to hope that I don't - since I'm not applying for a comparative literature degree, and can stay mostly within my American and British areas.

[Dr. Old Bill]

There was actually a couple of months ago. Basically, going into a Ph.D. program with reading proficiency in ONE language is quite normal. It's probably a bit of a disadvantage going into one with NO languages, but since that's not the case for you, all should be well. It sounds like you and I are pretty much in the same boat: I've got decent knowledge of Spanish, thanks to a couple of years of learning it as a freshman and sophomore. I can't claim to remember it too well, so will need a refresher as well...but it's good enough for claiming basic proficiency. And having completed thirteen applications so far, I can tell you that around 2/3 of them ask your proficiency level in languages (usually as a drop down list for what language, and another for "basic," "intermediate," and "fluent" or equivalent options).

 

I made a point of mentioning in all of my SOPs my plan to learn Italian, since that language will be pertinent to my intended course of study. In your SOP you might want to make a brief blurb about plans on learning a language as well, though it totally depends on what area you're looking at studying. If you're doing American modernism (or something equally recent), you probably won't need to mention anything, but might want to think about learning one of the cognate languages or old English etc.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Wyatt's Torch

[unræd]

They do, at least the ones I'm familiar with!

 

This varies of course, and by discipline--medievalists are notoriously cranky about place a higher emphasis on language skills. But even there, it's not uncommon for students to enter with only one language. At my school (big top 30 R1 state school, pretty strong in medieval lit), it's certainly not expected that everyone arrives with two languages, even though some do. There's plenty of support for picking up a language once you arrive, whether in summer classes, reading groups, or regular ol' introductory language sequences (often audited, since they don't supply grad credit).

[lyonessrampant]

Be sure to look into whether there are Foreign Language and Area Studies (FLAS) fellowships offered at your school.  They are funded through the Department of Education, and thanks to two of them, I've spent 13 weeks (7 weeks last summer and 6 the summer before) studying Italian intensively (30 hours per week) in Italy.  In addition to the summer fellowships, there are full-year fellowships to support studying a language at your university.  It depends on your university, but in general they support learning a language other than French, German, and Spanish.

 

At least at my program, most people need to get reading knowledge of one and some even two languages.  We have graduate semester-long seminars that focus on gaining reading knowledge of a language.  For us, those satisfy the language requirement, so look into what exactly the requirements are where you're applying.  It might be easier than you think to meet them.  Of course, if you know you're going to need advanced proficiency in a language, a semester-long course won't do the trick, so you might want to plan on taking undergrad lang courses during your course work time when your funding still covers classes.

[coespost]

Thanks everyone, this is helpful. I've also contacted some current grad. students and a professor, and all have more or less veered in the direction that department requirements for foreign languages on many websites tend to sound more daunting than they are, and that foreign language experience often is only of one language and rudimentary. Learning a new language, in addition to sharpening another, doesn't sound like it would be too much of a problem.

[queennight]

Past language exams on Harvard's website: http://english.fas.harvard.edu/graduate/resources-for-grad-students/#exams

 

The French exams seem ridiculously easy. One of them looks like simply a short poem? Admittedly, I'd need a dictionary beside me to translate it, but I feel if you took a summer intensive course or even just a program at a local community college you would be fine.

 

One thing I'm confused about is how to list my language skills as (basic, intermediate, advanced): as I was raised in the Canadian school system, I studied French up until grade 9 for 6 years, and I previously thought this meant that I could list my skill as intermediate (having conversational French), but now I'm confused as to whether I should list it as basic as I never obviously took an undergraduate course in French. I also studied Latin for 2 years back in high school, so I'm going to write that one as 'basic' - and now I'm studying graduate level Old English/Anglosaxon, which I would assume would place me as intermediate for that language. It's all so confusing and I'm scared that I'll 'oversell' my language skills - leaving me in a dry panic over the summer, and probably causing me to tear through Rosetta Stone so I don't look like a total idiot if I make it into an actual program.

[Dr. Old Bill]

I would say conversational French would be somewhere between Intermediate and Advanced. I assume you can read French as well, for the most part. I've taken a couple years of Spanish (through Intermediate level), which is causing me to list it as Intermediate...but I don't have enough command of the language to speak it with any confidence. So you're ahead of me there.

[unræd]

Past language exams on Harvard's website: http://english.fas.harvard.edu/graduate/resources-for-grad-students/#exams

 

The French exams seem ridiculously easy. One of them looks like simply a short poem? Admittedly, I'd need a dictionary beside me to translate it, but I feel if you took a summer intensive course or even just a program at a local community college you would be fine.

 

One thing I'm confused about is how to list my language skills as (basic, intermediate, advanced): as I was raised in the Canadian school system, I studied French up until grade 9 for 6 years, and I previously thought this meant that I could list my skill as intermediate (having conversational French), but now I'm confused as to whether I should list it as basic as I never obviously took an undergraduate course in French. I also studied Latin for 2 years back in high school, so I'm going to write that one as 'basic' - and now I'm studying graduate level Old English/Anglosaxon, which I would assume would place me as intermediate for that language. It's all so confusing and I'm scared that I'll 'oversell' my language skills - leaving me in a dry panic over the summer, and probably causing me to tear through Rosetta Stone so I don't look like a total idiot if I make it into an actual program.

 

Obviously you shouldn't mislead programs, but don't sell yourself short, either, especially given, as you say, the relatively low bar that most programs set for reading ability! And keep in mind that's what programs are after--it's not like you're going to go for an on-campus visit, or start your classes in the fall, and they're suddenly going to try to quiz you in French. They want to know if you're able to read scholarship in the field with a dictionary, not if you can answer their on-the-spot questions in French on Baudelaire or baguettes or how to get to the nearest pharmacy, and as you've seen the reading tests are usually actually pretty easy!

 

But what to put for languages that don't show up on your transcript is a question, and one I'm dealing with, too. I've never taken an undergraduate German class, but have solid German reading ability (and my writing sample uses several German language sources), so I've listed myself has having "reading proficiency" on the applications that allow more discursive answers, and just plain drew a (reasonable) number out of the air for the ones that required a specific number of years of study.

 

I agree with Wyatt's Torch that it sounds like your French ability--assuming you've kept it up, and can comfortably read simple texts, or at least suss out their syntax, if not their vocabulary--is more intermediate than basic. If you feel like "intermediate" is not an accurate reflection of your skill set, then sure, put "basic," but I wouldn't shy away from "intermediate" just because you've never had an undergraduate course in it.

 

Another thing to consider is differences in field. I'm applying to do work on medieval texts, and so my SOP talks at some length (okay, a paragraph) about my relevant linguistic preparation, which is where the evaluation of my linguistic skills by committee members is predominantly going to come from (and from my writing sample, of course, which is pretty heavy on the philology), not from the check box on the online application. If you're in a field where language work isn't as important, and so that sort of thing doesn't belong in your SOP, then, sure, that box is where they'll look. But a corollary of that is that then that box is itself less important, as long as it's checked!

Edited October 15, 2014 by unræd

[snickus]

On 10/15/2014 at 12:16 PM, queennight said:

Past language exams on Harvard's website: http://english.fas.harvard.edu/graduate/resources-for-grad-students/#exams

 

 

Helpful link! I'm bumping this for others like me who are brushing up on their foreign language proficiency.

[khigh]

30 minutes ago, snickus said:

Helpful link! I'm bumping this for others like me who are brushing up on their foreign language proficiency.

I know this is old, but I'm sure others are still wondering about learning foreign languages.  The one thing that really helps for me to pick up languages is watching movies and listening to music that I am already familiar with.  You will pick up quite a bit of grammar from Disney movies.  I'm currently working on language number six this way and have reading ability, listening, writing, and some speaking this way (Dutch, German, French, Frisian, Afrikaans, Italian in that order). Once you pick up a language in a language group (Dutch-German-Frisian-Afrikaans or French-Italian), the other are fairly easy. Belt out that Let it Go (Laat het Gaan in Nederlands) and don't let people judge you.  Fear of speaking is what hurts a lot of people when learning a language because they don't want to sound silly.

[snickus]

@khigh What a wonderfully eclectic language repertoire! Watching familiar movies and listening to familiar music can be a great way to get in a language's zone for many people. I'm brushing up on Spanish, so I think I'll rewatch Pan's Labyrinth a few times.  Early on, listening doesn't help me that much though, unfortunately, because I have what I term dyslexia of the ears. Sounds get jumbled in my mind unless they're spoken incredibly slowly. I think this might be a very mild auditory processing disorder. That's right; I'm diagnosing myself lol! I had to take speech classes in 1st grade bc of poor pronunciation. A common cause for that is not hearing the sounds accurately, so needing some extra help making them out. I learned about this while studying teaching English as a Second Language and realized that I probably have a mild problem with auditory processing. Right now, I'm finishing up DuoLingo for a review, and I also purchased a course last night from Lengalia. It's on sale this month so cost only $60 for a year of access to the materials. It's designed incredibly well. I've only done a few lessons, but it's already helped a lot. Now that I've started studying it again, I'd really like to keep up with it and attain fluency.

Edited January 2, 2018 by snickus

[khigh]

47 minutes ago, snickus said:

@khigh What a wonderfully eclectic language repertoire! Watching familiar movies and listening to familiar music can be a great way to get in a language's zone for many people. I'm brushing up on Spanish, so I think I'll rewatch Pan's Labyrinth a few times.  Early on, listening doesn't help me that much though, unfortunately, because I have what I term dyslexia of the ears. Sounds get jumbled in my mind unless they're spoken incredibly slowly. I think this might be a very mild auditory processing disorder. That's right; I'm diagnosing myself lol! I had to take speech classes in 1st grade bc of poor pronunciation. A common cause for that is not hearing the sounds accurately, so needing some extra help making them out. I learned about this while studying teaching English as a Second Language and realized that I probably have a mild problem with auditory processing. Right now, I'm finishing up DuoLingo for a review, and I also purchased a course last night from Lengalia. It's on sale this month so cost only $60 for a year of access to the materials. It's designed incredibly well. I've only done a few lessons, but it's already helped a lot. Now that I've started studying it again, I'd really like to keep up with it and attain fluency.

My languages have to be diverse. I stumbled on this thread because I have an unhealthy obsession with foreign language (minored in it), but my area of study is 17th century Dutch foreign policy.  I want to look at the relationship between the Dutch Republic and the Italian city-states (Papal States and Venice) during the Anglo-Dutch Wars. So, Dutch, Frisian, and Italian is needed for that.  Foreign policy in the 17th century was written in French, so added that.  A lot of secondary literature is in German, so that needed to be added. Afrikaans was added for a paper on colonization of South Africa. 

I also use Duolingo to keep up and have picked up some of my favorite books that have been translated into my other languages.  I have Crime and Punishment in Dutch (among many others) and have started collecting books in Italian, French, and German. I know the stories, so I'm not worried so much about understanding the plot, just the language. Fairy Tales work well for this also. 

[Carly Rae Jepsen]

I'm just an applicant as well so I'm not quite sure how the language requirement is tested but as far as learning I can suggest purchasing a book on Amazon to learn a language for reading knowledge. I bought one for like 5 dollars to learn reading knowledge of German and it was good for my purposes!

I second applications like Duolingo and Memrise, too.

[snickus]

41 minutes ago, khigh said:

I also use Duolingo to keep up and have picked up some of my favorite books that have been translated into my other languages. 

I love that idea! I'm excited to jump right into that. It's frustrating how relatively slow my progress is with understanding spoken language, but reading comes much quicker to me. I'm definitely going to do that; thank you!

Your program of study sounds interesting. Have you gotten to travel for your research/anticipate doing so?

[khigh]

1 hour ago, snickus said:

I love that idea! I'm excited to jump right into that. It's frustrating how relatively slow my progress is with understanding spoken language, but reading comes much quicker to me. I'm definitely going to do that; thank you!

Your program of study sounds interesting. Have you gotten to travel for your research/anticipate doing so?

I traveled during breaks as an undergrad and during this way-too-long gap year I'm currently in.  I've been to Reykjavik, Amsterdam, Nijmegen, Groningen, London, Paris, Berlin, and Rome.  I LOVE Rome and the Netherlands.  My trip to the archives in Rome and Amsterdam were short, but solidified my research interest. Most places were "fun" travel, but I make a point to go to at least one archive day for each location.  Except Reykjavik.  That was an accidental 2 day trip (one on either side of my travel to the Netherlands).  Accidental because it was supposed to be a short 2 hour layover each way, but the day I flew through to Amsterdam, the airport was on strike. On the way back, Iceland had just won the Eurocup, so the airport/country was on strike.  Never fly through Iceland if you want to get somewhere fast, but do if you want your flight reimbursed and free lodging/meals/transportation/beer because of EU regulations.

[snickus]

@khigh Being a travel lover, that was like poetry to me.   

Sorry about the hold up in Iceland but congrats on the free beer! 

Once I'm satisfied with my Spanish, I think I'll go back to studying French (self-studied that years ago). I don't anticipate using any language, other than possibly Spanish, in my field, but for my travel interests, I'd love to know more.

[snickus]

20 hours ago, Carly Rae Jepsen said:

I'm just an applicant as well so I'm not quite sure how the language requirement is tested but as far as learning I can suggest purchasing a book on Amazon to learn a language for reading knowledge. I bought one for like 5 dollars to learn reading knowledge of German and it was good for my purposes!

I second applications like Duolingo and Memrise, too.

I don't know for sure either, so please jump in someone out there if you're reading this and know more about it. But from what I've read, I get the sense that most schools consider sufficient proficiency to be passing a translation like in that Harvard link. I think some want more than just reading proficiency, though. Michigan, for example, says on the program page for English & Education that they also expect listening and speaking proficiency. They may be the rare exception though and probably stress oral communication too because of the Education portion of the program.

I think for most tests, a book like you purchased is just the ticket!

[khigh]

8 minutes ago, snickus said:

@khigh Being a travel lover, that was like poetry to me.   

Sorry about the hold up in Iceland but congrats on the free beer! 

Once I'm satisfied with my Spanish, I think I'll go back to studying French (self-studied that years ago). I don't anticipate using any language, other than possibly Spanish, in my field, but for my travel interests, I'd love to know more.

My boyfriend and I are both European historians (he does early 20th century Germany, I do 17th century Dutch Republic), so we tend to geek out. There is nothing like walking where your subjects walk or visiting their graves.  We also set up the trip to Rome for a special time- the Ides of March. They do a complete reenactment of the death of Cesar and I would highly recommend it.  We also combine cities on our trips because once you get to Europe, travel is very inexpensive. "My people" were in Amsterdam and Den Haag (the Hague) and Rome, so I got to see where Johan de Witt was cannibalized and go to the Rijksmuseum to see the paintings of the Dutch greats and the Van Gogh Museum (they are next door to each other) and we discussed early impressionist painters. You can walk the canals just the same as you did in the 17th century and watch the old boats and eat cheese. You can go to the Albert Cuyp markt or the Tulpmarkt and pick up kloppen (the wooden clogs) and tulips. The houses are mostly the same as they were in the 17th century.  Amsterdam was not hit like Groningen, Nijmegen, and Rotterdam during WWII. There is tourist Amsterdam and real Amsterdam. 

I was in Groesbeek, outside Nijmegen, for Canada Day.  The Dutch love Canadians because they were the ones that liberated the Netherlands in WWII. I went on the walk with a large group from the Canadian-American cemetery in Groesbeek across the border to Kleve in Germany. They do this liberation march every year through the countryside.  You will see WWII all over the Netherlands.  Buildings with bullet holes have markers on them. We always visit cemeteries because it reminds us to remember that we are actually studying real people that led real lives. 

In Berlin, we spent a lot of time at cabarets and walking the wall between East and West Berlin. We saw the watchtower and the water tower where people were held before being sent east. We discussed stoppelsteinen.  They are small metal blocks set into the sidewalks of Berlin.  They are in front of houses and apartment buildings and list the names of the people that were removed from that building by the Nazis and sent to concentration camps.  They are set just above the rest of the sidewalk, so you stumble on them- stoppelstein means stumbling stone.  Berlin has a life of her own and you should never be surprised with what you see.  She is the opposite of Amsterdam, which is a very clean and hidden city. You have to look for deviancy in Amsterdam and in Berlin, it is all in the open. Almost 30 years after the Wall fell and East Berlin is still VERY Russian. 

Travel is why I started learning languages.  There is an entire world that opens up when you can speak at least some of the language of the people you are interacting with. Sure, most of them speak English, but they appreciate you speaking to them in their language.  Most Americans don't appreciate this.  It's so bad that my crazy plan B if I don't get into graduate school is opening a travel company with the boyfriend called "That American Travel" which would work more like a study abroad. A few weeks of culture and language classes and then a guided tour on the off beaten paths of cities.  Sure, the Eiffel Tower would be on the tour, but so would the market in the refugee neighborhoods of Paris. Or, sure, we would see the Rijksmuseum, but also Jordaan, where the French enclave lived in the 1600s that is now a hippy commune.  We would see the Reichsstag in Berlin but also Wedding (a very Muslim neighborhood) and/or eat borscht and rundfleisch with the old Russian men in the east. Alexanderplatz isn't only a Primark and TV tower. In Iceland, you would see the volcanoes and hot springs, but also have a beer with the locals and see a Viking ceremony. You would be traveling with historians that know the region and know the language and know the people. Grocery stores are one of my favorite places to go and Albert Heijn grocery is always the first stop in the Netherlands (Lidl or Kaufland in Berlin). Forget eating at tourist spots. Have local food with local people. Buy the chestnuts from the trash can fire in Rome (homeless people sell chestnuts there). 

That was a long post, but I have a few loves in my life- boyfriend, my rabbits, travel, history, and language.  This post combined all but the rabbits, so I could go on and on about language and travel. 

[snickus]

@khigh   You spoil my travel-loving heart, thank you for that! I think your business idea is fantastic. I'm rooting for you and grad school, but your Plan B is a wonderful life too! For the past few years, I've been saying if academia doesn't work out, the only other career I'd really love is travel writing. 

[savay]

Thanks for reviving this thread @snickus ! I put off my French language exam last year and my advisor wants me to get it done asap. My department's language exams are pretty similar to the ones you posted from Harvard - short excerpts, usually from some type of secondary source on literature (history or theory) as I'm in a lang & lit department. We have a few hours to translate them to English with a dictionary. I think the requirements people might face for language vary by department, but the translation one seems pretty common -- I have yet to see one like Michigan's for secondary languages which does seem like a lot more is expected! My department also allows for passing an accelerated reading course to meet the requirement, and those are often offered over summer term so they don't necessarily take away from the rest of the year. I've also seen the English department at my university offer a few graduate translation courses that if passed can meet the requirement, and those courses are usually theory based so I'm not sure how much one is tested on actual language mastery, but certainly displays familiarity in working with a language.

Like @Carly Rae Jepsen (love that username!) I purchased a French for Reading book from Amazon and go through the exercises there, which is helpful. It can feel like a lot, especially if you're trying to learn a completely new language for your exams (I took French in middle and high school, so I'm really just reintroducing myself to the rules), but reading knowledge is definitely attainable with study and a dictionary (again the Michigan test probably would require a lot more instruction). Also, other grad students in your department are a great resource, especially if they've taken their exam already. I was gifted a nice French-English dictionary and some laminated grammar sheets from a fellow student and will probably pass them on to others in my department.

In my field it's an expectation that you have reading knowledge (and speaking as well) in quite a few languages (modern and ancient), but usually they are closely related so learning one helps with the others. All the funded TA positions are usually language instructor positions, so the emphasis on language proficiency might be different than an English department, so YMMV. It's quite common in my department to take undergrad language classes pass/fail to help brush up your skills. If your university offers the language you need, I really recommend this -- especially if your exam wants listening/speaking/writing proficiency. I'm taking an accelerated Ancient Greek class this quarter for some future research and am really enjoying it so far.

Also, if you expect you'll actually be using one of your second languages a lot for research (or that you might want to teach it one day) there are a ton of accelerated immersion programs, usually offered over the summer in a country where that language is spoken (but also available for ancient languages too). And grant funding is usually available by the program or your department/university. I've done month-long summer immersion programs for three of my languages, two for brushing up or expanding my skills and one as a beginner. They're a lot of fun and usually full of other grad students doing interesting research. I did two back to back before starting my program -- not sure if I'd recommend this, they were closely related and the transition was tough, but it was a lot of fun!

[a_sort_of_fractious_angel]

On 1/3/2018 at 9:44 AM, snickus said:

I don't know for sure either, so please jump in someone out there if you're reading this and know more about it. But from what I've read, I get the sense that most schools consider sufficient proficiency to be passing a translation like in that Harvard link. I think some want more than just reading proficiency, though. Michigan, for example, says on the program page for English & Education that they also expect listening and speaking proficiency. They may be the rare exception though and probably stress oral communication too because of the Education portion of the program.

I think for most tests, a book like you purchased is just the ticket!

I'm a bit late to this but here's my anecdote about passing a language exam for my MA in English.

I was emailed a journal article (about literature) by the French department and I had an hour (maybe 90 minutes?) to translate a part of it into passable English. I was permitted to translate between 500-1000 words and was allowed a dictionary and a grammar chart to help myself along. To prepare for the exam, I bought a book off of Amazon that was made specifically for graduate students needing to pass this kind of exam. The book is called French for Reading (authors are Karl C Sandberg and Eddison C Tatham) - it was a fantastic resource and helped me get comfy enough with French to stumble my way through without panic. I'm not sure if there is one for every language but if you need (or can swing) French for your area, it's a handy little book.

FWIW, I wasn't all that familiar with French prior to my MA - I took two semesters (101 and 102) as an undergraduate and did alright but not great (I freeze during oral testing of foreign languages).

My sense was that the book + a basic familiarity with the language + minimal preparation (an hour or two for 4-5 days a week for about 4 weeks prior to the exam) got me to a point where I could piece together enough of the sentences/paragraphs to figure out what was going on. And I passed, so that is cool.

Also FWIW, the PhD students in my program (which is consistently ranked top 10-15) had the option to do two of these tests OR to do a more intensive exam that (I think?) required speaking on top of reading. As we all know, not every program is the same but my sense is that - unless a program or field makes clear that an applicant needs to really be good with language (med/ren peeps, I'm looking at you) - you'll be OK and can definitely explore ways to get it done once you get to your program.

One fact and one myth to conclude:

Fact: our department had a connection to language summer sessions that many PhD students enrolled in - six weeks of intensive language learning and a test RIGHT at the end which our dept. accepted as "proof" of proficiency. My guess is that other programs have this option or something similar. 

Myth: I had a peer who went to the DGS to ask about the language exam. They told him they were raised (and subsequently) fluent in another language. He "tested" them right there on the spot and signed off on their language requirement after about 10 minutes. Dunno if this is as true as I'd like to be, but it makes me laugh.

All to say, there's probably several avenues to learning the language you need and you can find support along the way, especially since you're thinking about it now. And my friends who are currently PhD students at various institutions have never expressed a concern for this test (though they are freaking out about their 3rd year oral exams right now, haha).

 

Edited January 10, 2018 by a_sort_of_fractious_angel
clarity