another M* or PhD?

[pwe5000]

I am hoping eventually to get into a well-funded PhD program, but I have doubts about whether that could happen with my current stats. My intended field is HB (Exegesis/Theology), and my stats are:

 

M.A. Biblical Exegesis (Wheaton College)

Grad GPA: 3.5

GRE: V:170 Q:168 W:4.5

 

I am confident I could get good recommendations, and I am quite aware of the importance of "fit" as demonstrated by coursework and SOP, so theoretically those factors could be optimized. I continue to wonder, though, would a 3.5 GPA in a 2-year MA make me competitive enough to get accepted for a well-funded program (for most programs, a 3.5 is on the extreme low end of their suggested grad GPA)?

 

If my PhD chances are slim, the route will probably be an MA in Theology or MTS as further prep for PhD.

 

What do you think?

[newenglandshawn]

I am hoping eventually to get into a well-funded PhD program, but I have doubts about whether that could happen with my current stats. My intended field is HB (Exegesis/Theology), and my stats are:

 

M.A. Biblical Exegesis (Wheaton College)

Grad GPA: 3.5

GRE: V:170 Q:168 W:4.5

 

I am confident I could get good recommendations, and I am quite aware of the importance of "fit" as demonstrated by coursework and SOP, so theoretically those factors could be optimized. I continue to wonder, though, would a 3.5 GPA in a 2-year MA make me competitive enough to get accepted for a well-funded program (for most programs, a 3.5 is on the extreme low end of their suggested grad GPA)?

 

If my PhD chances are slim, the route will probably be an MA in Theology or MTS as further prep for PhD.

 

What do you think?

 

Wow! I'm not the resident expert on here, but I would say your GRE scores alone would get you serious consideration for a PhD program (even though the Writing is not on the top end). On the other hand, why is your GPA a little lower (though not awful)? Does the disparity between your GRE scores and GPA indicate that you underachieved or didn't work as hard? This may be a question for some. Or is writing perhaps not your strength?

 

I'm assuming you have done quite a bit of language work, which is always huge, and if you have strong recommendations and find a good PhD fit, I would say give it a shot. When are you hoping to apply?

Edited November 13, 2014 by newenglandshawn

[pwe5000]

My GRE AWA score has concerned me a little bit. My writing skills are actually quite strong, but I didn't study for the AWA section as much as I should have (I did 2-3 full practice tests). This caused some pacing issues on the GRE issue task essay. I know some schools "split" scores and consider your best score from each section when you report multiple attempts (Yale's website says they do this, for instance). So I might practice up for the AWA, retake it, and hope that my verbal and quant are still strong the 2nd time.

 

As for GPA, your guess is correct, unfortunately. I could have worked harder in my MA courses. I got the MA in 2012, and I've been a teacher for 2 years now, which has totally changed my perspective on being a student. So for now I have to live with the 3.5 and resolve to work harder in the future (if I get accepted).

 

My MA program was basically a biblical languages degree, so I'm at "high proficiency" (to use CV language) in Hebrew and Koine. I'm planning to start self-study of German very soon and apply for Fall 2016.

Edited November 13, 2014 by pwe5000

[Isaac32]

Your GRE scores are great, and I wouldn't worry any further about that aspect of your application. If anything hurts you it will be the 3.5 gpa, although 3.5 isn't terrible. I have heard a lot of different things from various admissions committees. Some have told me that GRE scores don't have much weight  as long as you hit 160+ on the V and 150+ on the Q, and it is demonstrating fit and writing quality that are key. Others have straight up told me if V and AW are not 90th percentile or higher the application won't even be considered. My stats are 162 V 153 Q 5 AW, Grad GPA 3.9, intermediate level French/Greek/Spanish, and almost everyone I have spoken with has told me my numbers are fine and I should focus on my writing sample and demonstrating that I am a good fit for the departments to which I am applying.

 Where you are planning to apply is another big factor.

[sacklunch]

Apply to both and see what happens. As you already know, you will be applying (PhD) against folks with 3.8+ GPA's and 3-5 years of M* work from top programs. Fit, of course, will trump another person's app who may have better on paper prep. While your biblical languages are fine, many of your competitors will have classical Greek, Latin, and/or other Semitic languages. If you apply to a more text-critical/philological program, your languages will not be adequate.

 

Again, apply to both and see what happens. 

[newenglandshawn]

Your GRE scores are great, and I wouldn't worry any further about that aspect of your application. If anything hurts you it will be the 3.5 gpa, although 3.5 isn't terrible. I have heard a lot of different things from various admissions committees. Some have told me that GRE scores don't have much weight  as long as you hit 160+ on the V and 150+ on the Q, and it is demonstrating fit and writing quality that are key. Others have straight up told me if V and AW are not 90th percentile or higher the application won't even be considered. My stats are 162 V 153 Q 5 AW, Grad GPA 3.9, intermediate level French/Greek/Spanish, and almost everyone I have spoken with has told me my numbers are fine and I should focus on my writing sample and demonstrating that I am a good fit for the departments to which I am applying.

 Where you are planning to apply is another big factor.

 

This is essentially what I've heard as well. 

 

Also, every school I've looked into says that they will take your best score from any section. The one exception is Harvard, which states that they will consider every score from the GRE you've taken.

 

But I'm not even sure if you should fret much about improving your writing score. My guess is that most programs will get a better idea of your writing skills from your statement and writing sample, rather than some random timed test in which you are asked to write about whether a park in downtown Podunk should receive greater funding.

 

My situation with the AWA was similar to yours: because I have done a lot of writing and feel confident in it, I didn't prepare. As a result, I got a 4 - which, to me, is a nightmare. I am going to retake it in two weeks. However, I visited with my professor of interest from Boston University yesterday (which, though it certainly isn't the creme de la creme, is still a good program that would get a person full funding), and she told me that a 4 is "not terrible." This, of course, isn't the case with everyone and everywhere!

 

I think the best thing you can do going forward is to spend a lot of time working on your Statement of Purpose. Everyone seems to indicate that this is probably the single most important factor in the process (assuming that an applicant has reached a minimum level of academic achievement). And it's not easy! It takes a lot of time to research programs and professors, trying to figure out whether your interests align with theirs, and then how you can articulate that in a Statement. It is easily the hardest thing I've ever had to write, and I'm still not finished, even though the application deadline is a month away!

[Kuriakos]

Where are you planning to apply?

[pwe5000]

Thanks for the replies! Some good things to consider.

I'm planning to apply to Notre Dame, Princeton, Duke, Wheaton, and possibly TEDS (though the possibilities for funding seem slim).

[pwe5000]

Besides those I mentioned, any suggestions for strong and well-funded (or potentially well-funded) programs in HB/OT exegesis/theology? I considered Brown, NYU, and UT Austin, but they all seem to be more ANE focused.

Edited November 15, 2014 by pwe5000

[newenglandshawn]

Besides those I mentioned, any suggestions for strong and well-funded (or potentially well-funded) programs in HB/OT exegesis/theology? I considered Brown, NYU, and UT Austin, but they all seem to be more ANE focused.

 

From everything I can tell, Duke and Princeton Seminary (which I'm assuming you meant, rather than just Princeton) are the best schools for exegesis/theology of the HB/OT. 

 

You may also want to look into Harvard, where Jon Levenson is open to Jewish/Hebrew Bible theology. And though I will not be applying there, I think University of Chicago may be worth looking into - though others may be able to correct me on this.

 

Of course, a lot of it depends on what one's specific interests are. If you are interested in Hosea, say, and a particular professor at Duke or Harvard is interested in Exodus, this is, of course, a factor as well. By and large, though, most top tier/funded HB/OT programs seem to be generally focused on ANE or textual-criticism. Very few top universities seem interested in theological approaches/interpretations - with a few exceptions. From what I gather, Yale, when Brevard Childs ruled the roost there, used to be a good place for this approach. That's why the places that emphasize this approach today (e.g., Duke and Princeton Seminary) have a lot of HB/OT faculty who did their training at Yale. (Again, someone who is a lot more knowledgeable of the ins-and-outs of all this can correct me.)

[cadences]

Besides those I mentioned, any suggestions for strong and well-funded (or potentially well-funded) programs in HB/OT exegesis/theology? I considered Brown, NYU, and UT Austin, but they all seem to be more ANE focused.

 

Two cents worth: in addition to what newenglandshawn has said, I think Notre Dame is a great option for HB/OT theology as well; and the best part is, they all cut their scholarly teeth on the ANE (all the HB full professors there are students of the late Frank Moore Cross, and they just hired Gary Knoppers), so you get the best of both worlds. I'd definitely try really hard to get into their MTS.

Edited November 16, 2014 by cadences

[newenglandshawn]

You might also check into Baylor. It's not mentioned a lot, but it is fully funded and has faculty - from what I can tell - who are interested in theological approaches.

[Rabbit Run]

Just joining in on this:

 

Is it likely one can get accepted into a concentrated MAR program at Yale after already completing an MDiv elsewhere?  Would this even be beneficial? Wondering if this might help increase my chances of getting accepted for PhD work in the future there.  Some schools do not, but I haven't found any information either way on Yale's site.

 

Thanks.

I think it would be more beneficial to do a one year ThM or STM; why do a first *M degree when you already have one?

[sacklunch]

Because almost all ThM/STM programs are unfunded. You would be better off doing an MTS/MAR/MA with (some) funding and applying after the first year.

As to doing a full MAR/MTS after an MDiv: I know several people who did this. Another reason some decide to do the 2 year route after the MDiv/MTS/whatever, is that extra year gives them good recs from current professors. If you do a ThM/STM, at least if you haven't studied at that school prior, you will have only a few months to secure relationships with possible letter writers.

[cadences]

Because almost all ThM/STM programs are unfunded. You would be better off doing an MTS/MAR/MA with (some) funding and applying after the first year.

As to doing a full MAR/MTS after an MDiv: I know several people who did this. Another reason some decide to do the 2 year route after the MDiv/MTS/whatever, is that extra year gives them good recs from current professors. If you do a ThM/STM, at least if you haven't studied at that school prior, you will have only a few months to secure relationships with possible letter writers.

 

This is true. One of my professors just made the same observation to me a couple of weeks ago about the newly-arrived ThM students in his seminar...

[pwe5000]

Good points about 1 vs. 2 year M* degrees. It does seem like the best option would be to apply for PhD programs as well as a handful of MA/MTS programs.