Good GPA, but lack Research

[Fallen]

Hey,

 

I'm wondering if its possible to get into a top-tier program without significant research experience. My undergraduate institute doesn't have a lot of research opportunities, and the ones that we do have are in subject areas that I am not interested in (neuroscience, psychology). I am interested in biochemistry, particularly in biochemical markers for disease/genetics. My GPA is a 4.0 (I have 1 more year remaining). I am trying to get research experience, but in the case that I cannot get significant research experience before applying, should I bother applying to top-tier programs?

[biotechie]

I keep saying this over and over, but where you do your PhD doesn't matter as much as where you do your post-doc studies and who you post-doc under. What matters is that you get into a program where you feel you fit well and under a professor who is going to work well with you and push you. A surprising number of the professors that are leaders in their field aren't even at these institutions, and most of them didn't study at top institutions, either. You need to be aiming for decent laboratory groups, specifically schools which have at least 3-4 professors you would be interested in working under as well (and who are likely to take students) as well as a program structure that you like. What will matter will be the work that you turn out as a student.

 

That said, my opinion is that you DO need to have your feet wet in research if a research-related PhD is what you're after. The adcoms want to know that you have an idea of what you're getting into by going to graduate school, and they also want to know that you're a little experienced in the process. People who don't know what the true research experience entails sometimes wash out really quickly. They want you to be making and informed decision... graduate school, especially in the sciences, is not easy. It is difficult, and sometimes impossible to maintain a schedule like our normal, 9-5 friends do. I'm telling you this as I'm sitting in my lab, on a Saturday, waiting for samples.

 

Honestly, any research experience is important. Anything that puts you into a wet lab (if that's your interest) and has you working with samples, running experiments, and most importantly, troubleshooting and being able to go down an altered path without going crazy when things don't work, is going to help you. You say that there are no labs doing things you're interested in... but maybe they're doing things you're slightly interested in. Perhaps one of the neuroscience labs is doing something with genetic markers for neurodegenerative disease or obesity... Both of those are huge disease where we know little about the biomarkers involved. You may surprise yourself and really love your project. I came from a cancer/epigenetics research background and joined a metabolism/neuro lab, and I love it. I thought I had a specific area I wanted to work in. Be willing to try new things!

 

I'm not sure what you are thinking of when you say "significant" research experience. For me, that is amount of time and productivity. I had 4 years undergrad lab experience, 2 years masters, with publications in prep, but 90% of applicants aren't going to have that. If you just want to get your feet wet, I'd say minimum 6 months to 1 year working on a defined project in a single lab. Many of the applicants I interviewed with (at universities considered top 25) had at least 2 years, or at least a year and a summer REU. For a graduate school application in the top 50, I would aim for a minimum of a year if you can get it. If you can't get into a lab or get a summer research opportunity elsewhere, I would consider taking a year break to work in a lab as a technician before applying to graduate school.

 

Keep in mind this is my personal opinion that research is absolutely required for admission. However, I don't know any students in the programs I interviewed at who had no lab research experience. I did not interview at top 5 institutions, but I did interview at top 25 and one top 50 institution.

Edited November 15, 2014 by biotechie

[gliaful]

I agree with biotechie about fit being of more importance than a top tier school (for the PhD, that is).

 

I am in a very similar situation to the one that you are finding yourself in, although this is my final semester and I am finishing up my first year of research. My school doesn't have many labs that I am interested in and thus my research is only relevant in the broadest of senses -- the techniques are similar to those I would use in my preferred field.

 

At the very least, email professors (chemistry and genetics if you're looking for biomarkers) and ask if you can volunteer or shadow in their lab. If you know the professor(s) already, you might add that you are thinking about graduate studies and you want to make an informed decision about whether you would like to do research (forever, basically). Asking to volunteer means that nobody needs to secure any funding for you, AND it's free labor, so I'm sure someone would love to have you. 

 

When it comes to applying to grad school, don't fret about the relevance of your research -- and certainly don't try to "apologize" or demonstrate that you know it's not relevant in your admissions essay. Instead, speak to the positives of what you did learn (techniques, self-discipline, whatever you can come up with) and how you are excited (!!) to apply this cool knowledge to the subject that interests you.

[Vene]

Hey,

 

I'm wondering if its possible to get into a top-tier program without significant research experience. My undergraduate institute doesn't have a lot of research opportunities, and the ones that we do have are in subject areas that I am not interested in (neuroscience, psychology). I am interested in biochemistry, particularly in biochemical markers for disease/genetics. My GPA is a 4.0 (I have 1 more year remaining). I am trying to get research experience, but in the case that I cannot get significant research experience before applying, should I bother applying to top-tier programs?

I think that the neuro labs would be relevant enough, even if you just work for them for a semester. The important thing isn't that the research is completely in line with what you're doing in graduate school, but that you have experienced what it is like to really do research.

 

Anecdotally, I'm in a biomedical science program and I have never done biomedical research prior to this fall. I've did a short chemical ecology project in undergrad and then did chemical formulation for a company. It's taken me a little bit to readjust to thinking about biology instead of pure chemistry, but I do draw directly on my previous research experience even if it's in a different field.

[Fallen]

Hey thanks for the responses.

 

I have emailed the neuro labs, but they are very hesitant to take on non-psychology students because most of the biomedical science/biochem students at my school who try to find volunteer positions in labs are premeds and they don;t really like people who aren't interested in research.

 

I have 1 professor willing to take me on if i win a competitive award. He said he may take me on in another paid position if I cannot get the award. I want to email professors at other schools that have summer research programs that are available to all undergrads, but I don't want to be in a position where I have agreed to do research with two professors at the same time. I'd like to hedge my bets so that i can make sure I have a position, but I think its a little unbecoming to tell a professor i will work with them, and then I end up working in another lab.

[biotechie]

Hey thanks for the responses.

 

I have emailed the neuro labs, but they are very hesitant to take on non-psychology students because most of the biomedical science/biochem students at my school who try to find volunteer positions in labs are premeds and they don;t really like people who aren't interested in research.

 

I have 1 professor willing to take me on if i win a competitive award. He said he may take me on in another paid position if I cannot get the award. I want to email professors at other schools that have summer research programs that are available to all undergrads, but I don't want to be in a position where I have agreed to do research with two professors at the same time. I'd like to hedge my bets so that i can make sure I have a position, but I think its a little unbecoming to tell a professor i will work with them, and then I end up working in another lab.

 

Whoa, whoa, wait.... You say most of the students who try to volunteer are premeds, which is true at most institutions... However, are you telling us you're not interested in research at all? That makes me think that you don't know what a biomedical science PhD requires of you, and you need to have a long talk with someone who is working their way up in the field about what it takes to get there. Research is the single most important aspect of your PhD studies, and ultimately what you make of your career.

 

Did you tell them you're not interested in their research? That would explain why they're more hesitant to take you. Did you try and find aspects of their projects that you're interested? Did you tell them you're interested in pursuing a PhD in biomed and that you want to do research? Did you volunteer to work as a research volunteer (unpaid) in exchange for the experience?

 

My experience with research professors is that in general, money is tight. They're usually willing to take on any student who is volunteering their time or comes in with their own research award so long as the student finds an aspect of their projects that they think is interesting and can quickly become competent with that aspect of the project.

 

You can e-mail around all you want, but a longer, year-long stint in one lab is going to be way better than a three-month summer stint.

[Fallen]

No, I am interested in research, but it is difficult to intimate it professors because they are used to people who have no interest in research applying to these positions.

 

I'm hoping to get 4 months in a lab this summer and then hopefully continue in the lab throughout next school year. I should be able to get this done since I have a prior undergraduate degree in Statistics, but as I've said, my concern is if I cannot get any experience at all.

[ilovelab]

Take a look at this. Its the NIH post bacc program.

https://www.training.nih.gov/programs/postbac_irta

If you can't find research before you graduate you can always do it after you graduate.

[Appsitude]

Honestly, I would not recommend applying to a PhD program if you have no full-time research experience. If you are interested, I would highly recommend working as a technician or research associate for a year or two at a top tier institution before you decide whether to get a PhD. Research can be appealing on the outside, but once you get into the day-to-day rigors and challenges, it may lose its appeal quickly to you. Before you dive head first into a PhD program, you need to be able to be honest with yourself and make an informed decision. Even if you are able to get a full summer of research + research your senior year of undergrad, you should have enough experience to know what you want to do.

 

From an admission's standpoint, coming from a small college without a lot of research opportunities won't hurt you too much. If you supplement your application with a summer research position and get a lot out of it (such as making a good impression on your PI), you will be surprised how far one letter can get you. There are people in my program who only had minimal research experience (one summer + a semester in undergrad) but were still able to get into top 10 programs across the country.

 

But seriously though, before you even think about applying for PhD programs I would get some serious research experience under your belt. Good luck!!!

[Fallen]

I'm in Canada, so I don't think I can do the NIH program.

 

I am strongly considering applying to Canadian Masters programs and then going from there. My concern is still the same - will my lack of research experience significantly shorten my odds?

 

A few graduate advisors at the programs I am interested in have said that I should be okay because my grades are significant and I am enthusiastic, but it will depend on identifying a supervisor willing to take a chance on me.

[Fallen]

Well, I got a position with a professor doing some structural biology (involved with bacteriophages). The prof was very enthusastic about having me in his lab, and I should be continuing on in the summer and the fall. I think 3 semesters of experience will help my application a lot, and will give me a better idea of what I want to do.

 

Thanks for the advice!

[Chai_latte]

Great!  Good luck.