Masters in Top 5 program or PhD in Program ranked 70

[thatguy999]

Hi all,

 

I graduated from a top 5 university in Applied Mathematics with a BS.

I was accepted to a university in England to pursue a PhD there, but I returned in January after a semester, because I did not like the structure of the PhD program in England at all. It was far different from my expectations.

 

Upon returning, I had two options to apply to because I was too late to apply to most schools:

 

1)Tufts, ranked 70 in math wanted to accept me last year but ran out of funding for applied math students. They encouraged me to apply again this year. I did and they've yet to send out their admissions decisions.

 

2) my undergraduate university (ranked top 5 in applied math) offers a 1 year masters degree in applied math for previous undergrads. This would be unfunded.

 

-It's likely I'll be accepted to both because I am very qualified for option 1 and have inside contacts in 2. Can someone help me sort out these options.

 

My Thoughts:

-It sucks that option 2 would be unfunded, but I feel like if I ultimately want to pursue a PhD, this program would really beef up my CV for next year if I choose to apply to other PhD programs. I also assume the credits would transfer due to the regarded name of the institution. 

 

-Option 1 on the other hand gave me a great vibe. I also liked the potential professors. The overall prestige of the department isn't really there, though.

 

Note: my current qualifications wouldn't get me into a top 20 PhD program in applied math in the US. My GPA was a 3.50 which is decent at a top 5 university in applied math, but I went to school part time during a few semester and took 4.5 years to finish my degree due to money/family issues.

 

Help me out, please

 

[StatsG0d]

Did you ever consider working for a year? I feel like it might not be necessary to increase your debt level. If you're already a qualified candidate, look for an RA position somewhere.

[bayessays]

How much time and money is going to a higher-ranked program worth to you?  You will not even have completed a semester in the Masters program before applying if you decide to go directly to a PhD program, so you would likely want to wait a year if you want your investment to pay off.  That's two extra years.  Also, how sure are you that you can be one of the best students in your MS program?  To improve your profile significantly, you would have to be one of the best students and get letters of recommendation saying that.  There is always the chance that you do not succeed in the program, and a 3.5 or worse in an MS program would likely hurt your profile instead of helping it.  That being said, getting the MS can definitely help your profile (I was in a similar boat), but the risk and costs (time and money) are also high.

[thatguy999]

Did you ever consider working for a year? I feel like it might not be necessary to increase your debt level. If you're already a qualified candidate, look for an RA position somewhere.

 

I have already had two impressive internships at a very impressive company relevant to my area of research. It seems like it didn't help my decisions process last year, due to my spotty undergrad transcript.

[thatguy999]

How much time and money is going to a higher-ranked program worth to you?  You will not even have completed a semester in the Masters program before applying if you decide to go directly to a PhD program, so you would likely want to wait a year if you want your investment to pay off.  That's two extra years.  Also, how sure are you that you can be one of the best students in your MS program?  To improve your profile significantly, you would have to be one of the best students and get letters of recommendation saying that.  There is always the chance that you do not succeed in the program, and a 3.5 or worse in an MS program would likely hurt your profile instead of helping it.  That being said, getting the MS can definitely help your profile (I was in a similar boat), but the risk and costs (time and money) are also high.

 

You make some good points. 

 

I do feel I could do well in my MS program. I started out as a poor student in my undergraduate student but became a straight A student by the end of my studies. This is because I came from the worst public school district in my state and had to really climb my way up to the status of everyone else, in terms of preparation for undergrad. 

 

I currently have no undergraduate debt thanks to a very extensive financial aid package. I do wonder two things though:

1)If I applied during the first semester of my MS program, would it help my profile if I sent my first semester grades to schools after I go them? If I did well, this would be 1/2 of the records from my MS program.

2) will my MS program credits transfer and advance me in a PhD program, when I start one? Afterall, I can't imagine most programs care to make me retake graduate level courses in PDEs, Numerical Analysis, ..., etc 

 

finally. Does anyone have any opinions on the Tufts program? Is it too lowly ranked for me to even consider it?

 

 

The reason I'm considering the masters also is because if I realize I'm burnt out by the end of that year in it, I'm in a comfy position to get a good industry job (another reason the debt isnt too scary to me)

[rising_star]

Not in your field but here are some answers that might help.

 

Re #1: It partially depends on the school's deadline. If you wouldn't have your fall grades until after the deadline, you're taking a huge gamble that they will let you add that transcript to your file. If your deadlines are Jan 1 or Jan 15, you might be okay. But, if they're Dec 1, it's unlikely the grades from your MS would make a difference in your application.

 

Also, think about your recommendation letters. Is a one year MS at a school you already went to going to lead to any improved recommendation letters? Given your inconsistent undergrad transcript, strong letters could make a big difference in your applications. I doubt you'll be able to get stronger letters out of the faculty that already know you after a few more months there. In addition, any kind of impressive thesis work you might do wouldn't be done in time to aid your applications, unless you wait until after your MS to apply.

 

Re #2: It's unlikely that all of your credits will transfer. The norm is for 9 hours to transfer, so 3 courses (1 semester in many programs). Some programs don't even allow that though. You'd have to look specifically at the program handbooks of the departments you are considering to see what they allow. 

[thatguy999]

Not in your field but here are some answers that might help.

 

Re #1: It partially depends on the school's deadline. If you wouldn't have your fall grades until after the deadline, you're taking a huge gamble that they will let you add that transcript to your file. If your deadlines are Jan 1 or Jan 15, you might be okay. But, if they're Dec 1, it's unlikely the grades from your MS would make a difference in your application.

 

Also, think about your recommendation letters. Is a one year MS at a school you already went to going to lead to any improved recommendation letters? Given your inconsistent undergrad transcript, strong letters could make a big difference in your applications. I doubt you'll be able to get stronger letters out of the faculty that already know you after a few more months there. In addition, any kind of impressive thesis work you might do wouldn't be done in time to aid your applications, unless you wait until after your MS to apply.

 

Re #2: It's unlikely that all of your credits will transfer. The norm is for 9 hours to transfer, so 3 courses (1 semester in many programs). Some programs don't even allow that though. You'd have to look specifically at the program handbooks of the departments you are considering to see what they allow. 

 

 

fair points.

 

Does anyone have opinions about Tufts?

[StatsG0d]

I have already had two impressive internships at a very impressive company relevant to my area of research. It seems like it didn't help my decisions process last year, due to my spotty undergrad transcript.

 

Private sector work likely won't help you. What I think may help you is to get some actual research experience as an RA, perhaps for a professor or for the Fed, BLS, IMF, World Bank, etc.

 

I wish I could say something to help you regarding Tufts, but I don't really know of their program at all. Maybe you can reach out to a current student there and ask them about the program?

Edited February 9, 2015 by footballman2399

[TenuousAtBest]

What are your plans post-PhD? If they're not academic, the caliber of your school really won't matter. Maybe the higher ranked schools will have better career connections, but the difference isn't as pronounced as if you were hoping to get a postdoc or a professorship. For me, I don't think the debt and the extra time is worth taking on the MS degree.

 

On the other hand, if hope to be a professor, you'll need to get into a higher ranked program than 70.  It's a tough pill to swallow, but it's unfortunately true in the current market. If you're taking this rout, I think you'll have to do a MS program and really knock it out of the park ( great grades, LOR, research, ect.)

 

Best of luck.

[thatguy999]

What are your plans post-PhD? If they're not academic, the caliber of your school really won't matter. Maybe the higher ranked schools will have better career connections, but the difference isn't as pronounced as if you were hoping to get a postdoc or a professorship. For me, I don't think the debt and the extra time is worth taking on the MS degree.

 

On the other hand, if hope to be a professor, you'll need to get into a higher ranked program than 70.  It's a tough pill to swallow, but it's unfortunately true in the current market. If you're taking this rout, I think you'll have to do a MS program and really knock it out of the park ( great grades, LOR, research, ect.)

 

Best of luck.

 

My plans, at least for now, has always leaned towards an industry job. However, this also brings into question: do I need a PhD for an industry job? Which might be another reason to consider a quicker streamlined MS and nothing more.

Edited February 9, 2015 by thatguy999

[TenuousAtBest]

My plans, at least for now, has always leaned towards an industry job. However, this also brings into question: do I need a PhD for an industry job? Which might be another reason to consider a quicker streamlined MS and nothing more.

Does any industry job require a PhD in math? I'd guess not. Maybe you could choose a very in-demand field (scientific computing, differential equations).

[thatguy999]

Does any industry job require a PhD in math? I'd guess not. Maybe you could choose a very in-demand field (scientific computing, differential equations).

 

I've been poking around in industry jobs and it seem most want either an MS with experience or a PhD. My area of research is scientific computing/numerical analysis. It seems I definitely need an upper degree to pursue a job in these fields.